Swashbuggling

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Drowboy
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Swashbuggling

Post by Drowboy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:25 pm

Couldn't think of a better pun. Anyway, it's live on the PGCC so time to compile prollems.

Prollem 1: Swashbucklers must start with 11 STR, as if it were their casting stat.
Prollem 2: Making a swashbuckler boots you with the message 'Delete Character.'
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Orian_666 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:59 pm

Problem 1: This is known and a way around it for now is to not use the "recommended" stats button, just add stats yourself and you can avoid going over, and thus requiring, 11 Str minimum.
Problem 2: I got nothing, sorry.

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:47 pm

Problem 1: This is a NWN bug not an Arelith bug. I'd suggest reporting it to Beamdog.
Problem 2: We should have a fix out soon.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by goblinhero » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:56 pm

Toying around with two swashbucklers:

1. Abilities work with ranged
2. Both weapon, armor and shield gets the on-hit property which triggers if the other swashbuckler hits you - so if you have all three equipped, the other (attacking) swashbuckler gets to make three saves while you make one.
3. Third intention hides the second intention (This might be intended)

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:14 pm

goblinhero wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:56 pm
Toying around with two swashbucklers:

1. Abilities work with ranged
2. Both weapon, armor and shield gets the on-hit property which triggers if the other swashbuckler hits you - so if you have all three equipped, the other (attacking) swashbuckler gets to make three saves while you make one.
3. Third intention hides the second intention (This might be intended)
3. Can you explain what you mean by this?
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Aniel » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:43 pm

Also, 1. and 2. should be fixed Soon™. As when the next bug fix patch goes live.
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by goblinhero » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:06 pm

Once you get Third Intention - the feat Second Intention is gone (I don't know if this is intended).

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Drowboy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:51 pm

Quarterstaff counts as a light weapon and gives you int to damage and lets you keep the AC bonus.
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Dr. B » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:59 pm

I'm getting the delete character issue too. Happens as soon as I make the character and the area loads.
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Drowboy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:05 pm

You can get around it by starting as fighter or something, which obviously isn't optimal but lets you play around with it while they work on a fix.

Edit: Trying to apply poison with the swashbuckler temp effects on your weapon gives you an error that says it's already poisoned.
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:51 pm

goblinhero wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:06 pm
Once you get Third Intention - the feat Second Intention is gone (I don't know if this is intended).
I'm unable to replicate this, but I'll keep trying.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:53 pm

Drowboy wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:51 pm
Quarterstaff counts as a light weapon and gives you int to damage and lets you keep the AC bonus.
We know. That was included intentionally, but it is something we're closely looking at for balance. Quarterstaff will most likely be removed from working with swash feats.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:53 pm

Dr. B wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:59 pm
I'm getting the delete character issue too. Happens as soon as I make the character and the area loads.
We should have this fixed on next PGCC reset.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Mattamue » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:56 am

Loving the work so far! Hope this is a quick fix.

Small pick doesn't trigger the feint save.

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:06 am

Mattamue wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:56 am
Loving the work so far! Hope this is a quick fix.

Small pick doesn't trigger the feint save.
Is small pick finessable? If so, that was an oversight on our end.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Metaturtle » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:43 am

Is the INT & DEX damage bonus visible on the character sheet? I've been poking at things as a level 10 swash and it doesn't seem to be changing my max damage after weapon damage and STR damage bonus is factored in.

This is using cloth armor and a plain bronze dagger attacking ~CR2 mobs so I shouldn't be restricted or seeing some sort of damage reduction. I have 14 INT and 18 DEX so I assume I would be seeing a +2 damage bonus from INT's insightful strike and/or +1 from DEX's graceful strike as the feats' descriptions state. My DEX is higher than my STR if that is a factor in anything.

Is there some other requirement that I am missing or a bug?
Last edited by Metaturtle on Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Mattamue » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:43 am

The vanilla finesse list has all the small and tiny vanilla weapons. Plus rapier. I had assumed the underlying coding looked for tiny and small weapons and figured that it was something with the coding on the small pick.

Just double-checked on PGCC and light pick, light flail, and sai do not proc feint or 2nd intention. They're all finesse-able.

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:51 am

Metaturtle wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:43 am
Is the INT & DEX damage bonus visible on the character sheet? I've been poking at things as a level 10 swash and it doesn't seem to be changing my max damage after weapon damage and STR damage bonus is factored in.

This is using cloth armor and a plain bronze dagger attacking ~CR2 mobs so I shouldn't be restricted or seeing some sort of damage reduction. I have 14 INT and 18 DEX so I assume I would be seeing a +2 damage bonus from INT's insightful strike and/or +1 from DEX's graceful strike as the feats' descriptions state. My DEX is higher than my STR if that is a factor in anything.

Is there some other requirement that I am missing or a bug?
Re-equip an item. Weapon usually works best. It's just jankiness from how onhit properties currently work.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:52 am

Mattamue wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:43 am
The vanilla finesse list has all the small and tiny vanilla weapons. Plus rapier. I had assumed the underlying coding looked for tiny and small weapons and figured that it was something with the coding on the small pick.

Just double-checked on PGCC and light pick, light flail, and sai do not proc feint or 2nd intention. They're all finesse-able.
I'll get this fixed. Thanks! It was just an oversight on our part. It doesn't look for weapon size; we have to manually enter every weapon.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Opustus » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:08 pm

Just checking if intended behaviour. Rapier counts as a finessable weapon for small races while not being *finessed*. I don't think it's a problem in terms of balance, but it does free a niche of small-sized builds switching between rapier for twohand and shortsword for sword 'n board. A small STR rapier WM would sting though.
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Sockss » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:45 pm

The on hit's (Feint & Second Intention) trigger on each hit if the opponent saves, they only go on cooldown for a round if the opponent fails.
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Linlan » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:37 pm

Tested on PGCC with a willing victim, and it seems that both Feint and Second Intention are blocked by Spellcraft ?
This seems like a bug given there is nothing magical in those precise hits, right ?


(Spellcraft 60 provided 12 bonus to reflex and fort saves vs Swashbuckler feint and 2nd intention rolls)
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by garrbear758 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:20 am

Linlan wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:37 pm
Tested on PGCC with a willing victim, and it seems that both Feint and Second Intention are blocked by Spellcraft ?
This seems like a bug given there is nothing magical in those precise hits, right ?


(Spellcraft 60 provided 12 bonus to reflex and fort saves vs Swashbuckler feint and 2nd intention rolls)
That's just how nwn works. Rogue grenades are also blocked by spellcraft along with feats such as pdk fear. It's something I eventually intend to go through and set up a workaround function to allow things to selectively bypass spellcraft, but that's pretty low on my to-do list.
Edited for grammar, probably

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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by Oaks » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pm

garrbear758 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:20 am
Linlan wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:37 pm
Tested on PGCC with a willing victim, and it seems that both Feint and Second Intention are blocked by Spellcraft ?
This seems like a bug given there is nothing magical in those precise hits, right ?


(Spellcraft 60 provided 12 bonus to reflex and fort saves vs Swashbuckler feint and 2nd intention rolls)
That's just how nwn works. Rogue grenades are also blocked by spellcraft along with feats such as pdk fear. It's something I eventually intend to go through and set up a workaround function to allow things to selectively bypass spellcraft, but that's pretty low on my to-do list.
I think Wild Magic effects ignore Spellcraft?
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Re: Swashbuggling

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:52 pm

Opustus wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:08 pm
Just checking if intended behaviour. Rapier counts as a finessable weapon for small races while not being *finessed*. I don't think it's a problem in terms of balance, but it does free a niche of small-sized builds switching between rapier for twohand and shortsword for sword 'n board. A small STR rapier WM would sting though.
I think in base nwn it has always been you can use weapon finesse while 2 handimg a rapier as a small creature. As you suspect there is not any balance issues caused by this (if you are str based you can just use a scimitar and if dex based, the 1.5 x str isnt worth ac lost of shield but is a fun option)

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