Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

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AstralUniverse
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Re: Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

Post by AstralUniverse » Thu May 21, 2020 3:08 pm

Seems a lot harder, both mechanically and thematically to make a new goody concept that meets the strength of the paladin mechanically and is goody too. Its easier to gain power through immoral ways and there are more ways to do it. The ways to get power in a goodly way, without being targeted by the gods for a specific purpose, since that one exists already, are few and slim and usually take a lot of practice and hard work - so they can be achieved by evil people too. Thus, we're left with paladin/harper because of the oaths they involve.

What could be nice in that regard, is a paladin path that is more focused on dex, that can facilitate different roguish paladin builds like the dude with the coat in the Radiant which I find really cool.
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Re: Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu May 21, 2020 3:33 pm

Would love to see a Paladin variant that foregoes spellcasting in exchange for Rogue grenades/abilities as a path.

Not sure how to balance it, not sure of mechanics, but I think one thing Arelith can experiment a lot more is swapping thematic progression between classes to offer up new archetypes.

The downside of dispels, caster level, and multiclassing, is that you're always chipping away simultaneously at different classes.

Playing a paladin that wants to throw holy hand grenades thematically fits, but to do so, you have to gimp yourself severely. Wouldn't it be a lot better if you could play as a rogue "shell" in a paladin "build"?

Might be out in left field, but I do dream of it.

edit: other variations include: domain-druids that relinquish shapeshifting, rangers that don't spellcast but gain lore bonuses/bardic knowledge, monks who lose a lot of wis-related abilities in favour of "ki" (arcane) spellcasting, etc.

edit: I still fundamentally believe Swashbuckler should have been Fighter path, Shaman should have been a Cleric path. But this is an argument between the unique classes of old 3.5/Pathfinder1e vs the archtypes of 5e/Pathfinder2e.
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Hunter548
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Re: Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

Post by Hunter548 » Thu May 21, 2020 4:24 pm

AstralUniverse wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:08 pm
Seems a lot harder, both mechanically and thematically to make a new goody concept that meets the strength of the paladin mechanically and is goody too. Its easier to gain power through immoral ways and there are more ways to do it. The ways to get power in a goodly way, without being targeted by the gods for a specific purpose, since that one exists already, are few and slim and usually take a lot of practice and hard work - so they can be achieved by evil people too. Thus, we're left with paladin/harper because of the oaths they involve.
There's actually a lot of good-aligned PRCs in PnP that could be cribbed for this sort of thing. Book of Exalted Deeds (among others) is full of them - things like Exalted Arcanist, or the various Disciples of the Celestial Hebdomad. All good-only classes, a lot of which have paladin-esque codes of conduct attached.
What could be nice in that regard, is a paladin path that is more focused on dex, that can facilitate different roguish paladin builds like the dude with the coat in the Radiant which I find really cool
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:33 pm
Would love to see a Paladin variant that foregoes spellcasting in exchange for Rogue grenades/abilities as a path.
laying a paladin that wants to throw holy hand grenades thematically fits, but to do so, you have to gimp yourself severely. Wouldn't it be a lot better if you could play as a rogue "shell" in a paladin "build"?
I've always viewed said Prelate (and this concept) as just a mostly-rogue with a dip for paladin and/or divine champion. Certainly if you're a paladin without spellcasting you're not getting any class features above level 5 or so other than smite scaling and d10 HD.
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Seven Sons of Sin
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Re: Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu May 21, 2020 4:38 pm

Hunter548 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:24 pm
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 3:33 pm
Would love to see a Paladin variant that foregoes spellcasting in exchange for Rogue grenades/abilities as a path.
laying a paladin that wants to throw holy hand grenades thematically fits, but to do so, you have to gimp yourself severely. Wouldn't it be a lot better if you could play as a rogue "shell" in a paladin "build"?
I've always viewed said Prelate (and this concept) as just a mostly-rogue with a dip for paladin and/or divine champion. Certainly if you're a paladin without spellcasting you're not getting any class features above level 5 or so other than smite scaling and d10 HD.
Which is one way to view it. I think in the world where the 3-class restriction didn't exist, it would be less of a problem. But imagine if you could have some of the Rogue progression "in" the paladin, you know?

You could lose spellcasting, but gain scaling sneak attack that would mirror when you get a new spell level; get rogue grenades; maybe a rogue feat or two. Maybe evasion.

This archetypal structure within classes I find more and more appealing than trying to piece together some weird dip build. It's always a halfway measure than a viable alternative. You're trying to piece something together but it often falls short - or at least, it's something you awkwardly achieve by late epics rather than getting to experience along the way.
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Hunter548
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Re: Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

Post by Hunter548 » Thu May 21, 2020 5:36 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:38 pm

This archetypal structure within classes I find more and more appealing than trying to piece together some weird dip build. It's always a halfway measure than a viable alternative. You're trying to piece something together but it often falls short - or at least, it's something you awkwardly achieve by late epics rather than getting to experience along the way.
Neither of these is true of the build I mentioned.

Frankly, you need to go all in one way or the other. Either you have lots of these archetypical things but multiclassing is severely restricted to avoid balance considerations, or you allow multiclassing and let people build these archetypes by combining classes.
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Re: Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Thu May 21, 2020 6:08 pm

Hunter548 wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 5:36 pm
Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 4:38 pm

This archetypal structure within classes I find more and more appealing than trying to piece together some weird dip build. It's always a halfway measure than a viable alternative. You're trying to piece something together but it often falls short - or at least, it's something you awkwardly achieve by late epics rather than getting to experience along the way.
Neither of these is true of the build I mentioned.

Frankly, you need to go all in one way or the other. Either you have lots of these archetypical things but multiclassing is severely restricted to avoid balance considerations, or you allow multiclassing and let people build these archetypes by combining classes.
That's fair.

And with the addition of custom classes rather than class archetypes, it's evident we're going down the path of flexible multiclassing rather than strict multiclassing.

My counter-point to this is that so new custom classes don't feel traditional NWN-sense. Traditional NWN seems to front-load, our new classes back-load. For better or for worse (likely worse). I don't know if that's incongruent or what have you. I don't even know what my point is. I guess that swashbuckler-embedded into fighter, for example, would have felt more exciting than a separate swashbuckler, because the latter doesn't feel like it meaningfully adds to my "multiclass options" whereas ... the former would? I dunno. I'm rambling. I don't envy class designers or the balance squad.
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Garthis
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Re: Would a Witch Hunter/Witcher themed Ranger path suit Arelith?

Post by Garthis » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:40 pm

I actually find the idea of a Witch Hunter path exciting. I just posted about the lack of an arcane sneak type class, and while a ranger is certainly not arcane such a path could absolutely help fill the niche of a magical sneak with a tweaked spell list while doing something different from a paladin RP-wise.

It's often a trope that witch hunters and Inquisitors have to understand and even tap into the very powers they abhor. Your classic stare into the abyss and the abyss stares back scenario. Such a character probably isn't going to limit his magic to tangling foes with tree roots and summoning badgers.

It would be a lot of fun being able to serve that churchy role whilst sneaking around and not being limited to lawful good (or even good). I feel that the traditional ranger doesn't convey this character archetype well as the nature theme is a bit off the mark.

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