"Modern" terms not allowed/ frowned upon?

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

Just curious;

I just glanced over my gf's screen stating the term "racist" isn't allowed.

So, I asked about it, She stated the term, According to DM, Is modern and she should use words like pridefull.

Now racist came into the dictonary in the very early 1900's, So..Do we:

a. Get a list of all "modern" words we can't use.

b. Assume the DM in question is an extreem leftist that should be ignored?

[Nitro]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15147
Here you go, from big boss Irongron himself. Basically, when in doubt just try to refrain from using overly anachronistic words. Racism in particular is egregious because people try to inject modern sensibilities into the Forgotten Realms setting, and use modern words to do so. The notion of a human chiding a dwarf who just insulted an elf as a racist doesn't really fit in with the setting.

And a quick edit: I don't think you should ever assume a DM is an extreme anything and ignore what they tell you to do just because you disagree with it.

[Dreams]

'Racist' is a pretty negatively charged word that is used in a much more modern context. For example, a Sun Elf looks down on a lowly human, and a bystander calls them a racist. Yes, that's exactly how they act, but it probably isn't the best term to use because within the setting this is perfectly normal behaviour. Discriminating between humans a half-orcs, as another example, is incredibly common. The point here is that it is modern because of the real-life ideals attached to it and the various stigmas associated.

I've seen a number of instances of Tieflings walking into a major settlement and acting like nothing is wrong with them, then calling anyone who disagrees a racist. It sort of doesn't fit so well with the setting.

I'm not sure a list of words you shouldn't use is the right way of going about it. Just try not to use directly immflamatory language?

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15147
Here you go, from big boss Irongron himself. Basically, when in doubt just try to refrain from using overly anachronistic words. Racism in particular is egregious because people try to inject modern sensibilities into the Forgotten Realms setting, and use modern words to do so. The notion of a human chiding a dwarf who just insulted an elf as a racist doesn't really fit in with the setting.

And a quick edit: I don't think you should ever assume a DM is an extreme anything and ignore what they tell you to do just because you disagree with it.

Oh, I assume all humans are equally horrible.

But thanks, I was not aware of this. Good to know we are only mild leftist.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

It's a lore and setting thing. In Fr, some people and factions do make it a point to judge individuals and people by their actions- but calling a hin a light fingered halfling isn't racist, it's a stereotype that's mechanically true.

Drow aren't typically viewed as people, they're monsters, just like kobolds, and most don't spare their social status any thought beyond "drow here, run away. " Many parents consider drow appropriate to scare their children with before bed, in the same vein as telling a real child if they're bad Santa will give them coal.

The racially charged atmosphere of FR isn't a part of modern day cancel culture, and while not everyone will share racial views, FR isn't the sort of world where someone is going to stand up in a bar and call you a dirty racist for saying dwarves are greedy- in fact, the average commoner will agree.

[RedGiant]

I think that it Is a good principle of Role Playing to try to match the time-frame and technology level of the setting.

I think Netflix's new Witcher series, which is an enjoyable fantasy romp, is actually exactly the opposite of what we should be trying to do in game. Often for comedic effect...I think...they use modern terms that no-one in a fantasy setting should know.

Jaskier the Bard does a "ride-along" and Geralt and several others reference "mutants". Now these could be argued, but "ride-along" as a noun phrase is a phenomenon of the last twenty to thirty years just like "mutant" is of the last century (implying as it does a rather advanced understanding of genetics).

In some senses, its probably impossible to police ourselves for all anachronisms. In some instances, some are established parts of the setting (e.g. DnD has a "clone" spell). But, where possible, I would personally try to use more setting-specific terms. For example, Jaskier could have simply rode with Geralt against the grim foe instead of performing a "ride-along".

[GwaiLo]

Hmmmm I dunno, Racism is Racism. For example, saying a half Orc is retarded just because of their race feels wrong to my myself and character. And this absolutely has happened to him.

[MalKalz]

Just curious;

I just glanced over my gf's screen stating the term "racist" isn't allowed.

So, I asked about it, She stated the term, According to DM, Is modern and she should use words like pridefull.

Now racist came into the dictonary in the very early 1900's, So..Do we:

a. Get a list of all "modern" words we can't use.

b. Assume the DM in question is an extreem leftist that should be ignored?

To answer A):

There are certain words that should not be used and should be avoided. There are substitutes. Take racism, it can be substituted to intolerant. People have varying tolerance to different races - but racist itself is a modern term. So choose the words that suit the time.

To answer B):

That attitude is horrible and should not be carried around here. Abide by the golden rules, and if there is a concern about a DM, bring it up to the appropriate people.

But thinking they are leftist? I’d rather that type of person find the right place for them to play as Arelith isn’t for them. This isn’t political. This is about immersion. And abiding by what has been asked.

[Wuthering]

Heck I'd even give "mutant" and "clone" a pass depending on where they're coming from. This setting is medieval-ish but also very literate and educated and perhaps more advanced than ours in some ways. For example an arch-mage's understanding of magic and the planes may be much deeper than a modern scientist could ever hope to understand genetics or the cosmos. Maybe words like that describe the equivalent in magic of something similar in technology. Like many risky things it all comes down to how well the player can pull it off.

Trying to fit anachronistic slang like "ride-a-long" into the game generally doesn't work though I've seen an occasional pop culture reference pulled off masterfully. Like I saw someone make a MacArthur Park cake-in-the-rain once and it somehow worked brilliantly, I couldn't believe it. But it's probably not something you want to do unless you know it's going to be very funny... and I'd say most of us aren't nearly as funny as we think we are.

Hmmmm I dunno, Racism is Racism. For example, saying a half Orc is retarded just because of their race feels wrong to my myself and character. And this absolutely has happened to him.

It's a tough one because the term "racist" itself is what's most anachronistic. Obviously prejudice is very much a part of the setting and there will be characters who are very much so and there will be some who look at everyone as individuals. You can be against "racism" in game but have to figure out how to apply the "game world filter" to make sense of it. It's not difficult to do but it's difficult to tell you how to do it.

*Though frankly I don't think the word "retarded" is something you're supposed to say in game or in real life, either.

[DM Atropos]

Hmmmm I dunno, Racism is Racism. For example, saying a half Orc is retarded just because of their race feels wrong to my myself and character. And this absolutely has happened to him.

"Retarded" is an absolute ableist slur IRL.

It is not, however, bad ingame. That doesn't mean it won't hurt the feelings of any players we have who have (or have loved ones with) developmental or intellectual disabilities.

Racism is a very nuanced thing that presents issues, especially to our American players of colour. It is disallowed. Full stop. Saying someone is bigoted, prejudiced, hateful, that's all okay, but bear in mind you are SUPPOSED TO BE. That's a THING. It's 110% normal to think all elves are jackbooted supremacist asshats or all halflings are thieving sloths or all dwarves are drunken louts. That's okay. That's how it should be.

What's NOT normal, by lore, is a huggy-lovey thing where tieflings are "just misunderstood poor babies" and howling about how everyone has rights.

(Also, yes. I am a RAGING leftist. This has nothing to do with me enforcing the rules as stated by the admin team, however.)

[Cybren]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15147
Here you go, from big boss Irongron himself. Basically, when in doubt just try to refrain from using overly anachronistic words. Racism in particular is egregious because people try to inject modern sensibilities into the Forgotten Realms setting, and use modern words to do so. The notion of a human chiding a dwarf who just insulted an elf as a racist doesn't really fit in with the setting.

And a quick edit: I don't think you should ever assume a DM is an extreme anything and ignore what they tell you to do just because you disagree with it.

I am sure this is not deliberate on the part of the server, but in keeping with the spirit of the linked post, can the name of the jewelry shop in the mercantile be changed to something that isn't a real-world slur?

[Cybren]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15147
Here you go, from big boss Irongron himself. Basically, when in doubt just try to refrain from using overly anachronistic words. Racism in particular is egregious because people try to inject modern sensibilities into the Forgotten Realms setting, and use modern words to do so. The notion of a human chiding a dwarf who just insulted an elf as a racist doesn't really fit in with the setting.

And a quick edit: I don't think you should ever assume a DM is an extreme anything and ignore what they tell you to do just because you disagree with it.

I am sure this is not deliberate on the part of the server, but in keeping with the spirit of the linked post, can the name of the jewelry shop in the mercantile be changed to something that isn't a real-world slur?

Hmmmm I dunno, Racism is Racism. For example, saying a half Orc is retarded just because of their race feels wrong to my myself and character. And this absolutely has happened to him.

"Retarded" is an absolute ableist slur IRL.

It is not, however, bad ingame. That doesn't mean it won't hurt the feelings of any players we have who have (or have loved ones with) developmental or intellectual disabilities.

Racism is a very nuanced thing that presents issues, especially to our American players of colour. It is disallowed. Full stop. Saying someone is bigoted, prejudiced, hateful, that's all okay, but bear in mind you are SUPPOSED TO BE. That's a THING. It's 110% normal to think all elves are jackbooted supremacist asshats or all halflings are thieving sloths or all dwarves are drunken louts. That's okay. That's how it should be.

What's NOT normal, by lore, is a huggy-lovey thing where tieflings are "just misunderstood poor babies" and howling about how everyone has rights.

(Also, yes. I am a RAGING leftist. This has nothing to do with me enforcing the rules as stated by the admin team, however.)

Using the r-word to refer to intellectual disability is more modern than the term "racist" by several decades, however.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

(Also, yes. I am a RAGING leftist. This has nothing to do with me enforcing the rules as stated by the admin team, however.)

I knew it.

Anyway, Can this topic have a lock?

I got my anwser, I disagree with it, But that is political.

[Irongron]

I'm surprised anyone is having difficulty grasping this - it has very little to do with what is and isn't modern.

The meaning of the word 'racism/racist' refers to the morally reprehensible position that certain ethnicities, by virtue of their race are inherently inferior or different, and should be subject to discrimination based upon those entirely false assumptions.

The thing is, in most fantasy settings, these assumptions ARE true - racial differences are key to the setting. Telling someone in our world that because of their genealogy they have 'devil blood' would be unspeakably racist, whereas saying the same to a tiefling within forgotten realms is LITERALLY TRUE.

I abhor seeing characters using the 'but that's racist!' Line to try and call out a character for respecting the setting, not only does it purposely ignore/subvert the setting, but it also, I feel, fails to respect the severity of the term, and the accusation.

And this comes my second, more serious issue with those that use the term; whether intentionally or not it implies equivalency - that the meaning of the term can equally apply to both settings; that racism in the Forgotten Realms is comparible to racism here. Please think about that a moment, we already know that hard racial differences are concrete in the fantasy setting, thus throwing the term around in game carries with it the implication that the same is true here, in our world, whether the user is intending to or not.

It will not fly, not ever.

This debate is hardly new to classic fantasy, and unfortunately overt racism is an accusation often made against such settings, and why many of these worlds and the philosophy behind them have occasionally proved attractive to the far right - something we have sadly had to deal with, even here, in the past.

If anyone is genuinely interested in learning more please read the following article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconvers ... ist-108227