[Solved]Swearing

[Void]

Is there a list of allowed or frequently used (IC) swearwords?

[Irongron]

Bastard is in the actual game, both in soundset and npc gender specific convo set up, as is bitch (presumably partly due to Umberlee)

I don't object to the former of these at all, but the latter is definitely often used as a misogynistic slur, though given how women are often represented in classic sword and sorcery fantasy I guess I shouldn't be surprised it's in the game itself.


I really don't mind the use of bastard though, so long as it's not overdone.

On the whole, so long as swear terms weren't offensive, anachronistic, overused or left more sensitive players feeling bullied, I'd be all for it - sadly all of things would be true.

Better to just be inventive with non-offensive 'ordinary' words. Calling someone a 'cringing cur' a 'buffoon' or cursing with antiquated terms like 'God's Teeth!' is likely the best policy.

[Kuma]

as for in-universe cursing, soulhaven library has a whole entry of them

[Opustus]

Could we use other language versions of the F and C words? E.g. A dwarf going "Ech these snorkblarting goblins" where snorkblart is Dwarven for F word.

[Kuma]

this already exists with the drow equivalent which is "vith", so the UD has a rich tapestry of the joy of vithposting, and having a four letter word that is not only fun to say, but can work as a verb, a noun, or any number of things.

there's something to be said for the many, many opportunities to convey a message and emotion with the same 4 letter word we use IRL, and i'm sad that fantasy ones don't normally tickle my brain the same way. saying "by mystra!" or "elminster's shaven balls" doesn't occupy the same conversational space as the words they're trying to replace, and read as twee and without weight.

many attempts have been made to come up with fake four letter words across lots of different sources and not many work. points to judge dredd (drokk), ciaphas gain (frak/frakking), orks (zog/zoggin), and most of all red dwarf (smeg/smegging).
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... nMyKlingon

my list of FR canon derived curses and insults is, i believe, in the new soulhaven but was derived from this post

one could make an argument for the language cipher we have but that seems a bit counterintuitive, because at that point you're just typing /s -gn shit in front of the nomad

EDIT: or we could just try some wizard swears?

[The GrumpyCat]

As a rough rule of thumb, if it's used in the voice sets that means you can use it IG.
Anything else I would avoid useing, or at the least (in the case of milder ones) use very infrequently.

Could we use other language versions of the F and C words? E.g. A dwarf going "Ech these snorkblarting goblins" where snorkblart is Dwarven for F word.

If by that you mean a process of
a) check waht F**ing is in dwarven
*use that word in replacement in common, not using the dwarven langauge system then.

Uh... yesss... maybe... I guess? Perhaps? It still very much toes the line. I'd really avoid using strong words all together. So when little timmy types to you 'Say what does Snorkblart mean' and you say 'it means F*** kid!' we dont get little timmy contacting us going 'YOUR SERVER IS TEACHING MY BABY HOW TO SWEAR!'

So yes... I suppose you can. But I'd really advise being really careful and infrequent with even this.

[Kuma]

So when little timmy types to you 'Say what does Snorkblart mean' and you say 'it means F*** kid!' we dont get little timmy contacting us going 'YOUR SERVER IS TEACHING MY BABY HOW TO SWEAR!'

i mean the solution to that one is parenting. it's entirely fine to lie to children when convenient; encouraged, even.

edit: also if, let's say, "blak" is the dwarf for f*k, then a dwarf typing it in dwarven will re-translate it through the alphabet cipher, so it'll just be very inconsistent and be an unpronouncable garble.

[Xerah]

I think this is a list of collected FR uses:

SWEARING
General exclamations
--------------------
“By the hells!”
“Hellfire!”
“By the fiery gates of Gehenna!”
“Gods above 'n' fiends below!”
“*troll*!” [Generally seen as a better variant of “***e”]
“Damn / Damnation!”
"Dark" or "Dark and empty" [roughly equivalent to "crap"; prevalent in Sembia]
“Dented shields and broken swords!” [curse, esp. used by warriors and military folk]

Personal abuse - men
--------------------
“W.horeson” [questions someone's parentage, but a general term of abuse]
“Knave”
“Orcwit” [fool, idiot]
“Orcsnack”
“Badblood”
“Troll dung” [abusive, esp. used by dwarves]

Personal abuse - women
----------------------
“She-goat”
“Harpy”
“Harlot”

Divine oaths
------------
“(by) Auril's kiss!”
“(by) Bane's Black Blood.”
“(by) Beshaba's (bad) breath!” [normally used to indicate bad luck, or to curse an unfortunate event]
“By the combined crotches of all Beshaba's chosen!”
“(by) Clangeddin's stones!”
“Cyric's Sword!” [Curse and double entendre. It is generally frowned upon and considered bad luck to mention the Dark Sun's name.]
“Gond's Gears!”
“(by) Hanali’s Golden Heart!” [polite exclamation, used esp. by elven nobles]
“Helm's Haemorrhoids!” [Irreverent, to deride a necessary but unappealling task.]
“Ilmater's patience!” [When someone is timewasting, also “You'd try the patience of Ilmater himself!”]
“By the (Crying) God's Tears!” [Polite exclamation; Ilmateri normally omit “Crying”]
“By the light of Lathander.” [Normally a blessing, but also an exclamation.]
“By the last sunrise!” [Oath used by priests of Lathander, the Morninglord.]
“Leira's Lamentation(s).” [Something that is not what it seems, particularly feigned grief. A double entendre when spoken because Lliira (Our Lady of Joy) is pronounced the same way as Leira (Lady of the Mists).]
“Loviatar's Caress.” [Something that hurts, also “Loviatar's Lash”, for those less given to subtlety.]
“(by) Moradin's hairy pair!”
“Mystra's Miracles!” [An exclamation of surprise, as when something happens by unexpected magic.]
“May the Wandering God's heel tread lightly on you.”
“(by the) clanging stones of the Wanderer!” [i.e. Shaundakul]
“By the Six rods of Shakazakh”
“Great Stinking Pufferfish of Tempus!”
“Talos' teeth!”

Regional oaths (alphabetically)
-------------------------------
[Cormyr] “Keep your Peace Knot tied.” [i.e. calm down]
[Cormyr] “A hero must move.”
[Cormyr] “(you've) the reach of Gondegal!” [said to someone attempting something they cannot hope to achieve. Derived from the saying “Gondegal's reach was longer than his blade”, of the Lost King's brief rule over Arabel.]
[the Dales, Western Heartlands] “In the East, perhaps!” [untrue, absurd, as of a fanciful story or unlikely tale.]
[the Dales] “Mind the barn when it’s full, not empty. “ [i.e. don’t waste time on something that doesn’t need done.]
[the Dales] “Zhent deal”
[Mulmaster] “Fear and loyalty are the same word.”
[Thay] “Tamm's cold hands!”
[The North] “Klauth”, [“vicious”, as in “Don't go near him early of mornings; he's apt to be a right Klauth until he's had a mug or two.” or: “Blood and bodies everywhere...it looked as though old Klauth himself had come calling!” or the shorter variant: “Regular Klauth work!”, used to describe butchery. These all derive from the nasty brutality of the great red wyrm Klauth.]
[Zhentil Keep] “Rewarded like Zhentar.” [“Betrayed.”]
[Zhentil Keep] “For god, keep and master.” [Traditional salute of the Zhentarim. The keep refers to Zhentil Keep, ‘master’ to whoever is its leader, be it Fzoul or Manshoon, and 'god’ to Bane or Cyric.]

RACIAL SPEECH
Orcish
------
“Ashdautas Vrasubatlat.” [“Someday I will kill you”, a standard Orcish greeting]
“Nar Udautas.” [“Not today”, the standard reply]

“Amal shufar, at rrug.” [“Where there's a whip, there's a way.”]
“Mirdautas vras.” [“It is a good day to kill”]
“Zanbaur.” [“Elfson”]

Dwarven
-------
“Axe high, friend, I go” [Dwarven farewell]
“May your axe be ever bright” [Dwarven farewell]
“I go” {Dwarven farewell – not impolite, often used by merchants]

“sargh” [orc, or orc-filth. Abusive term.]
“By my beard!” [The speaker is being VERY serious.]
“His beard is long.” or “...longer than his years.” [indicates wisdom]
“no-beard” or “shorthair” [meant as an insult to any race; particularly grave to another dwarf]
“You stand tall among us.” [complimentary; the actual height of the person in question is irrelevant - it's impossible for a dwarf to use this ironically.]
“His axe is sharp.” [said of a good strategic thinker.]
“Under the Mountain.” [Safe, well protected.]
“Open to the sky.” [Unsafe, unprotected. Also an insult, i.e. someone is a liability.]
“Gordul!” [“Gods look on!”]
“Calass.”
“dur Authalar” [“the people”, only really used by wild dwarves]
“Fair as the Holy Hammer!” [Effectively means “Unfair”, “Unjust”; when addressed directly to a person (“Soft with the Holy Hammer!”) it means “Calm down”, or “Ease off”. The Holy Hammer are a dwarven group dedicated to the survival and improvement of the dwarven race and the lot of the dwarves. The dubious means (including murder and intimidation) by which they go about this noble-sounding end results in an expression which means the reverse of what one might expect.]
“Sandstone!” [Serious exclamation; literally stone too soft and crumbling to be workable.]
"As wild as a night in Wildstar." [Bawdy: Wildstar is an underground town of gold dwarves]
"For the arduke."

Elven
-----
“Shardae” [“Winds blow.” A neutral elven greeting indicating that chance has brought you together.]
“Sweet water and light laughter until next” [elven farewell, becoming adopted by nobles across the Heartlands]
“Vedui” [greeting; see “Vendui” below]
“Vendui” [Drow *only* - greeting. Surface elves will *not* be impressed if you use this to them]
“Aluve” [Drow *only* - “I/we leave you”.]

“Est eionivan ei tie Myotha.” [“Until the stones forget.” A green elven curse, pronounced in all seriousness on those who have done some great harm to the People. Based on the idea that all things have an anima or spirit which the People can speak with and that the stones have the longest memories.]
“Nadorhuan(rim)” [“Cowardly dog(s)”]
“Mereth en draugrim” [“Feast of wolves”, i.e. a slain enemy]
“Andodulin” [“Gate bird”, i.e. a slain enemy]
“Auta miqula orqu” [“Go kiss an orc”]
“Lasta lalaithamin” [“Listen to my laughter”, dismissive]
“Antolle ulua sulrim” [“Much wind pours from your mouth”]
“Utinu en lokirim” [“Son of snakes”, i.e. a dishonest person]
“Lle naa haran e' nausalle” [“You are king in your imagination”, to a pompous person]
“Amin feuya ten' lle” [“You disgust me”]
“Lle holma ve' edan” [“You smell like a human”]
“Dolle naa lost” [“Your head is empty”]

Gnomish
-------
“Forges warm, friend” [Gnomish farewell]

“(to) set the gears in motion.” [Getting things started, often with the mechanistic gnomish mentality that all things work like machines.]
“(he) always casts a shadow.” [Mild or medium insult. Suggestive of the inability to hide *in* the shadows or use illusions to avoid detection.]

Halfling
--------
“Good morning, and good day after that! Don't let anything curl your hair!” [Halfling greeting, to which is sometimes added, “'Ware the Big Folk, and mind the goblins too!”]
“Gods smile (upon you)!” [Halfling greeting to the impatient other races.]
“Brandobaris watch over your shadows.” [Hin farewell]

GREETINGS and SAYINGS
Hello and goodbye
-----------------
“Well met” [Most often used greeting, especially between races or to those about whom you are unsure.]
“Well again” [Used between business associates or acquaintances]
“Again.” [Hostile greeting. Abbreviated from “Well again.”]
“Olore” [Equivalent to 'well met', used by travelers in the Inner Sea lands, especially around the Sea of Fallen Stars.]
“Until swords part” [Warriors' farewell throughout the Realms.]
“Until next, may your sword be ever wet, and your arse dry” [the Pirates of the Inner Sea]
“Alavairthae!”
“Amarast!” [“Fare well until next we meet!”, used by the sailors of the South.]
“Braeunk vhos trolkh!” [Hobgoblin: “If you die while I'm gone, do it quietly.” Also implies the unspoken addendum: “because I wouldn't want to miss the fun.”]
“Tantam.” [Greeting used by merchants of all sorts in the North.]
“Oakfather keep the earth firm beneath your feet and the sun warm on your face ‘till next we meet.” [Also: “Rillifane...”, “Eldath…”, etc., and abbreviated to “Firm earth, warm sun ‘till next.” Farewell common amongst followers of most nature deities]

Sayings
-------
“That hound won't hunt.” [Indicates a poorly thought-out idea or ill-judged plan. Mildly insulting.]
"Watch thy step, or your gold will soon be gilding Gondegal's throne!" [Warning expression. "Gondegal's throne" refers to anything likely to be a money-sink.]
“(you'd) sell slaves in Silverymoon.” [to do something that violates local law/custom in a particularly outrageous and obvious way and then say: “I didn't know any better.”]
“(caught) between the Dragon and the Desert.” [between a rock and a hard place - to face two equally unattractive possibilities.]
“No more Firewine for the Barbarian.” [said of someone going too far with a jest or a plan. “firewine” can be replaced by “jhuild”, and “the Barbarian” by whoever it applies to.]
“Fool's Gold”, or “To take Fool's Gold.” [An adventurer's watchword meaning to take on an adventure so dangerous that only the god Torm (The True, the Foolish) would attempt it.]

[Xerah]

And this an even bigger list of saying/curses/etc.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13403

[thimblegiant]

I'm not one to casually swear in RL, and In game I prefer more creative, "Conan" style swear words (blasted cur!) because it's less offensive, as it's obviously not meant to be taken seriously or personal. I've seen conversations begin to prickle even from mild forms of swearing.

[Opustus]

vith, zogging, shaven Pufferfish et al.

I've found some shock value with "by the Aw-Faither's bawsack" on my dorfsters, cos it's so taboo to speak of divine scrotum in front of diehard conservative dwarves. So maybe it's also contextual?

The problem with drokking and frikking and frakking and zogging is that they sound really cutesy, like onomatopoeically? Something that just sounds rougher than frikkity frok zigzog might work nicer, although naturally swearing is given its weight also by being improper (see: divine scrotum).

And GrumpyCat, yus, that's what I meant. Thanks for the little timmy explanation

[ReverentBlade]

PG-13 means I get one f-bomb every two hours

[a shrouded figure]

A met a dwarf who CONSTANTLY said “fookin”, I read it with a Scottish accent... generally his character was enjoyable?... I don’t know the verbose amount of fookin’s was a little jarring but it was nice to see someone who adopts their whole way of typing for their character. Honestly the two annoying parts were how long it took them To translate into their crazy dialect, and the fact that they really didn’t need 100 fookin’s in every sentence... but oh well *shrugs* lol

[DM Chatsworth]

As a rough rule of thumb, if it's used in the voice sets that means you can use it IG.
Anything else I would avoid useing, or at the least (in the case of milder ones) use very infrequently.

Could we use other language versions of the F and C words? E.g. A dwarf going "Ech these snorkblarting goblins" where snorkblart is Dwarven for F word.

If by that you mean a process of
a) check waht F**ing is in dwarven
*use that word in replacement in common, not using the dwarven langauge system then.

Uh... yesss... maybe... I guess? Perhaps? It still very much toes the line. I'd really avoid using strong words all together. So when little timmy types to you 'Say what does Snorkblart mean' and you say 'it means F*** kid!' we dont get little timmy contacting us going 'YOUR SERVER IS TEACHING MY BABY HOW TO SWEAR!'

So yes... I suppose you can. But I'd really advise being really careful and infrequent with even this.

We've actually touched on this in the past, and it's something I find myself chatting to the wider Arelith community about somewhat frequently.

The use of 'vith' instead of the F-bomb should be very, very, few and far between. I personally think it is used too much as it is.

We shouldn't really be circumnavigating the no-swearing rule by using IG languages and then converting those IG words back into Common.

That's not how this works guys - please, use the lighter swearing, bastard for example, as a little salt & pepper if the RP scene truly calls for it, else, remember we are a PG-13 community, with actual children playing.

I don't want to see people swearing in front of minors any more than the next person, so always be mindful of your audience, please!

Thank you.

[Kuma]

this is why i hate the swearing "rules", every dm has their own opinion of them and there's never been a party line. there are literally curse-replacers in the FR books, and a glossary of such is in-game.

swearing is only offensive if the words themselves are considered mature, not because the act of ejaculating a word with intent to offend a character is somehow mature. the concept of swearing is a valid method of communication and of expression, both IRL and with regards to portraying a character. if yall think that PG13 - a rating that literally lets you say f*ck once every two hours - means we have to be sparing and on our tippytoes with made up exclamations then i don't know what to say.

also, 'vith' is actually meant to be 'sh*t', not the f-bomb, but it's used as a sort of catch-all swear. ... oh, and it's also in one of the in-game voicesets.

there are scores and scores of examples of "fantasy swears" throughout a plethora of children's literature and media.

finally, actual children probably know worse and more inventive swears than i do, what with their tiktoks and flossnites and whatnot

[Void]

The main reason to asking was because it was unclear whether to draw the line, exactly.

[Drowboy]

I'm sure these, checks notes, five different staff answers helps.

While I understand not using real world swears, I really feel like trying to keep people from doing fake fantasy swears is a wildly losing battle, even if they have real world analogues. Vith is too satisfying to say IG (and out loud. Try it. Say vith.) to get people to stop at this point.

[Hazard]

Things that are setting appropriate are fine to me, but I find modern RL swears just out of place and awkward. It's not that they offend me, it's that they take me out of it.

I think American culture and the rest of the world is pretty different too. It can come across as pretty repressed to me, what some Americans consider too crude. Especially as someone living in Australia where every second word is a c word that you would lose your minds over, and no one bats an eye or even means any offense.

An example is bugger off. Literally meaning f off. Totally fine for children to say that here, despite it having the same meaning and often barely being considered any different. Also in my native language you would never say a proper swear infront of a child, but you would say something that translates instead of 'f your mom/be f'd by your mom' for children you would say 'f a mouse/be f'd by a mouse' and that make it G rated and OKAY.

So uh. I think we all know what we should and shouldn't say, when it comes to the basics. The modern basic swears. But things like vith, bugger, and colourful/imaginative language I think should be allowed.

[Kuma]

"modern basic swears" have some of the most colourful and best described etymologies stretching back thousands of years, so anachronism has never been an argument i've understood. and bugger off isn't even merely to f off, it's quite a specific method, too.

i agree with what you say though hazard, with regards to what to discourage, it just still continues to boggle me that

1: children are discovering this game
2: that we consider words they say on breakfast radio in australia (there are no restrictions!) more offensive than the fact that i could capture that character played by a minor and sell them into slavery to what is canonically a rapist cannibal monster

[Hazard]

i could capture that character played by a minor and sell them into slavery to what is canonically a rapist cannibal monster

LOL

Yes.

[CookieMonster]

i could capture that character played by a minor and sell them into slavery to what is canonically a rapist cannibal monster

Except that they are not. Because they would have been banned if they were actively RPing the above.

It's not a particularly difficult concept to grasp if we are honest, but clearly a few big headed individuals are dead set on trying riggle their way out of it.

I swear quite frequently at work and out of the house. But I have an 11 month old son at home who is starting to learn words. I don't swear in front of him. When I visit my friend who has a 12 year old, we don't swear in front of her.

It's that simple understanding that parents seem to grasp better than others, I certainly realised it more when my baby started to pick up words. You don't swear in front of children, unless you are a tool.

I am from the UK, we are less conservative than the USA when it comes to what is offensive, but it's not hard to figure out what doesn't translate well cross continent.

It's a PG13 server, regardless of what idiotic loophole you find. Unless you are willing to walk into a pre school classroom and without any remorse bat out all the words you want to use on Arelith, don't do it.

The DM's haven't drawn a solid line, because language is a funny thing. They just expect you not to be stupid and not to swear as a whole and if you do, make sure it is soft and make sure it's flavoursome, not just copy and pasting it.

[good man of god]

i could capture that character played by a minor and sell them into slavery to what is canonically a rapist cannibal monster

Except that they are not. Because they would have been banned if they were actively RPing the above.

It's not a particularly difficult concept to grasp if we are honest, but clearly a few big headed individuals are dead set on trying riggle their way out of it.

I swear quite frequently at work and out of the house. But I have an 11 month old son at home who is starting to learn words. I don't swear in front of him. When I visit my friend who has a 12 year old, we don't swear in front of her.

It's that simple understanding that parents seem to grasp better than others, I certainly realised it more when my baby started to pick up words. You don't swear in front of children, unless you are a tool.

I am from the UK, we are less conservative than the USA when it comes to what is offensive, but it's not hard to figure out what doesn't translate well cross continent.

It's a PG13 server, regardless of what idiotic loophole you find. Unless you are willing to walk into a pre school classroom and without any remorse bat out all the words you want to use on Arelith, don't do it.

The DM's haven't drawn a solid line, because language is a funny thing. They just expect you not to be stupid and not to swear as a whole and if you do, make sure it is soft and make sure it's flavoursome, not just copy and pasting it.

I agree with this 100%.

Just use your common sense lol - the fact that some players have to be told not to drop F-bombs and C-bombs on a PG-13 server is hilarious.

[Void]

Just use your common sense lol - the fact that some players have to be told not to drop F-bombs and C-bombs on a PG-13 server is hilarious.

There's a matter of non-native speakers.

[The GrumpyCat]

I mean really I think you have your answer.

To re-iterate, swear words used in voice sets are fine. Other swears should ideally never be used or, at the very least, avoided.

I do not want to see the F bomb dropped.
I CERTAINLY see NO excuse for seeing the C word dropped.
If we tell you to stop it, stop it.

There will be some who argue that the whole language rating system is stupid, or look for ways around, or insist - on some level that their characnter absolutly positivly neeeeeeeds to use swear words.
To which I reply, in order.
Yeah, it's stupid but sadly it's how the world works, it's what we have to do. Deal with it. If you try things around it (e.g. using other tongues to swear in) then that's all dandy, but don't count on it to pretect you if you get reported. If people recognise you as dropping the F bomb and C Bomb all the way, in whatever langauge, we will come down on it. And fianlly if you have a character concept that absolutly needs to use swear words, then I cordially suggest you find another character concept.

So again... to give a definate answer and very detailed, to be absolutly as clear as day with this.

a) You may use the Swear Words avaiable on the voice set (damn, hells, blast, ect)
b) Other (milder) words use with EXTREME care and scarcity. (e.g. S**t. Maybe one or two uses per RL month, no more)
c) Avoid swear words relating to genetalia of any sort.
e) Often swears that are associated with supprise 'Oh damn!' will be treated with a little more leniancy than swear words used to curse someone out.
f) There are plenty of ways to be angry at someone, or show suprise without resorting to strong swear words. Consider telling someone to pike off, to kiss Bane's boots, that they're a tottal tosspot, ect)
g) Ways 'around' using swears, be it using translated words, or slightly modified versions of rl swears, may be more tolerated, but will be dealt with on a case by case basis.
h) Ultimatly, if we tell you to stop using certain words? Stop using certain words.

I think that about covers it.

[Void]

I think that about covers it.

Alright. Thanks.

The concern was about possibility of character getting creative with "normal" insults and becoming too successful, but as long as policy is to avoid C/F/etc bombs and use things in voiceset, I suppose I just should see what happens.

Thanks for the responses. Marking as solved.