Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

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legionetrangere
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Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by legionetrangere » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:44 pm

Howdy

Is it possible to take the Slave minor award and start out a enslaved Shield Dwarf in Andunor?
The wiki clearly states outcasts as humans and half-orcs, but doesnt mention slaves having the same restrictions.

Simple question, thanks! :)
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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:54 pm

I believe currently slaves are also restricted to Neutral/Evil humans/halforcs from startup.
This too shall pass.

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CorsicanDoge
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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by CorsicanDoge » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:26 pm

But I can capture your Dwarf if you want. Save yourself a minor anyway.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by The GrumpyCat » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:32 pm

CorsicanDoge wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:26 pm
But I can capture your Dwarf if you want. Save yourself a minor anyway.
I...

So technicaly I feel like I should be really against this? But on the other hand there are a lot of cool none-human slave concepts, so honestly I'm actually fine with the above happening.

BUT

If you have a concept for a slave that is Human/halforc - Please, please ,please don't 'save yourself' an award by being ooc captured. I would see that as an abuse. Thank you.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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CorsicanDoge
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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by CorsicanDoge » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:48 pm

Eventually, when the workload eases up the minor reward definitely should be extended to all races. Anecdotally speaking the Elven slaves down in UD already manage to figure out a way to get down here.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Nitro » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:50 pm

I mean this just highlights how silly it is to have slaves on character creation locked behind an award when you can for no award have a character get captured in game.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Kuma » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:36 am

or for no award a character who ingratiates themselves into andunor and becomes better than an outcast

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by HeyLadyOfDecay » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:36 pm

Kuma wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:36 am
or for no award a character who ingratiates themselves into andunor and becomes better than an outcast
remove award outcast, Have them branded (like the pirate tatoo) and from that point use the portal etc?
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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Gouge Away » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:54 pm

Nitro wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:50 pm
I mean this just highlights how silly it is to have slaves on character creation locked behind an award when you can for no award have a character get captured in game.
Yeah, maybe slaves who start there could at least know Undercommon?

I also don't see why it needs to be gated to humans and half orcs. That makes sense for outcasts but anyone could be a captured slave, right?

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Drogo Gyslain » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:02 am

Gouge Away wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:54 pm
Nitro wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:50 pm
I mean this just highlights how silly it is to have slaves on character creation locked behind an award when you can for no award have a character get captured in game.
I also don't see why it needs to be gated to humans and half orcs. That makes sense for outcasts but anyone could be a captured slave, right?
There was a perception that there was a large amount of low-skill / low-effort slave roleplay and an increased desire to make andunor more of a "monster field" instead of high human population.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:26 am

Drogo Gyslain wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:02 am
Gouge Away wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:54 pm
Nitro wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:50 pm
I mean this just highlights how silly it is to have slaves on character creation locked behind an award when you can for no award have a character get captured in game.
I also don't see why it needs to be gated to humans and half orcs. That makes sense for outcasts but anyone could be a captured slave, right?
There was a perception that there was a large amount of low-skill / low-effort slave roleplay and an increased desire to make andunor more of a "monster field" instead of high human population.
Close

The story goes like this:
It was decided to improve the rp down there, and encourage more monsteroius races, we would make an Outcast a reward option only - normal award to be precise.
The thing was that then a fair few people just started taking slave as an option - but not really often rping slaves. Just rping underdark humans. The underdark was suddenly flooded by very poorly rped slaves.
So we put slave behind an award too.
The comment about this being a bit silly is actually understandable, and I sorta agree. I mostly have to depend on good faith that, in cases where an award could be spent to make a character, it is spent. But it is what it is.
We are continually reassessing the sitatuion, and it may change in the future.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Tarkus the dog » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:40 am

It's a bit weird of a 'solution', if it is even that even, but you could raise the level requirement on who can take the collar.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Drowboy » Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:25 pm

Seems like instead of 'bad human slaves' it just traded to 'bad elf slaves.' I don't know if this is considered better.
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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by CorsicanDoge » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:37 am

What was the problem with the Humans occupying Andunor anyway? I don't think they ever made a concerted effort to shunt off the monster races and they just simply existed. Even a run grinder wanting to optimally level still contributes to a treasury.

I'm a bit new and even after RPing a bit I still never found any IC indication it was a problem. Nobody hates Humans, nobody ever talks about the great monster purge of 653, or how Humans occupied all three slots of the devil's table. Monsters, duergars, and drows still had run of the gambino.

Optional outcast and optional slave seems to have ensured people played what they want. If I knew someone could just pick outcast with no strings attached then I know any slaves that trickle in are in for that particular experience.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Skibbles » Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:04 am

CorsicanDoge wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:37 am
What was the problem with the Humans occupying Andunor anyway? I don't think they ever made a concerted effort to shunt off the monster races and they just simply existed. Even a run grinder wanting to optimally level still contributes to a treasury.

I'm a bit new and even after RPing a bit I still never found any IC indication it was a problem. Nobody hates Humans, nobody ever talks about the great monster purge of 653, or how Humans occupied all three slots of the devil's table. Monsters, duergars, and drows still had run of the gambino.

Optional outcast and optional slave seems to have ensured people played what they want. If I knew someone could just pick outcast with no strings attached then I know any slaves that trickle in are in for that particular experience.
There's two possible answers to this I think.

There is/was a very vocal portion of the community that felt that free humans (free as in not-slaves), of any quantity, in the underdark, was immersion breaking.

Regardless of one's opinion on UD immersion: humans are very much one of the strongest race picks, especially compared to drow who are one of, if not *the*, weakest races, and could theoretically overwhelm the 'monster' population via sheer numbers which in turn could water down what most people might expect from the setting.

In the past the humans/outcasts haven't ever had full control of both districts, that I know of, for any *significant* amount of time, but they have had very strong factions before that could swing with considerable weight - sometimes with enough influence to heavily lean against the drow/monsters.

If you're questioning why outcast and slave was gated by rewards then I believe the cited reason was due to DMs being overwhelmed by corrective action by role play that was not in line with the administration's vision for how the average slave and outcast was intended to be played.

That's about as fair as I can put it I think.
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So we're very much on track.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Morgy » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:33 am

Much of the power to challenge poorly RP'd slaves lays with the PC outcast/monster races. I often see examples of slaves doing/saying things they absolutely should not get away with, but get no punishment for it.

Slaves are not pets/children to be cuddled and encouraged to find their feet. The point, unless you're a secret chain-breaker, is to keep them submissive and obedient.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:13 pm

For outcasts, I believe the change occured simply because we wanted to encourage more people to play monster races in the underdark, not due to any particular rp of outcasts.
This too shall pass.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by CorsicanDoge » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:55 pm

Thanks for explaining it. It is odd that it has to be encouraged because usually admin teams feel they have to app-gate drow or any other monster race lest it becomes 75% of the server. They aren't wrong with that either and it's a uniquely Arelithian challenge to make people want to play monster races.

But I admit, I sometimes feel like the sucker playing a drow with how fast the sun comes. >.>

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by Skibbles » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:57 pm

My mistake. I think I accidentally reversed the outcast tagging and the outcast reward, which were two separate updates if I recall.

Outcast tagging was for bad RP, but the reward was to slim down humans in the UD.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Slave reward / Shield Dwarf

Post by legionetrangere » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:29 pm

CorsicanDoge wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:37 am
What was the problem with the Humans occupying Andunor anyway? I don't think they ever made a concerted effort to shunt off the monster races and they just simply existed. Even a run grinder wanting to optimally level still contributes to a treasury.

I'm a bit new and even after RPing a bit I still never found any IC indication it was a problem. Nobody hates Humans, nobody ever talks about the great monster purge of 653, or how Humans occupied all three slots of the devil's table. Monsters, duergars, and drows still had run of the gambino.

Optional outcast and optional slave seems to have ensured people played what they want. If I knew someone could just pick outcast with no strings attached then I know any slaves that trickle in are in for that particular experience.
For the sake of gamingRP experience, i would rather see an Audunor having a plethora of monsters racers alongside the Duergar and Drow than a bunch of humans walking freely around and not RPing their outcast status on the surface.

Given the strength of the mechanical benefits of Humans and their somewhat wild card (*) status, I would go radical and push Outcast status to perhaps Greater Reward, and Slave Normal Reward. But thats just me.

On outcasts
When you commit to playing one of these characters, you have to be mindful of one very simple thing:

Something that you have done, or has happened to you in the past, has generated a great level of notoriety, and you have become a pariah to civilized society. Your only hope to find stable social connections is amongst monsters and miscreants that have done things far worse than you, or simply do not care. The fact is that you are one of them. Your deeds may be forgiven by some few individuals, but never forgotten, true or imagined, your reputation is beyond repair.

Playing an outcast is not a "poor me" story. Very much like Warlocks, there is a willingness in your actions of something in your backstory that has led you to the spot where you are now. Either eager or reluctant, you are an outcast. The people in the surface cities stare at you and whisper your name, you think you may have seen a poster with your face recently, there are bounty hunters searching for "the one that got away".

You are free to represent this however you like. It may be in good form to write a snip, a hint in your character description that signals them as an outcast, so other characters may identify them easily and use that to hook into the RP. A notorious scar, a criminal branding, an intense aura of discomfort, it's a fantasy setting, and you are perfectly welcomed to use whatever creative tool is at your disposal to further interesting roleplay.

If you are just looking for evil or morally questionable character with no infamy, then Outcast is not the background for your character.
to have ensured people played what they want.
Let us not forget what the Gods have spoken
"Is this interfering with the individuals right to choose their own role play? Yes. Do I care? No. Reason? Because I am concerned with server quality more than individual rights. You may define any of my actions, and judge them, by the simple standards of "is this action being beneficial or detrimental to the server overall?". Or, as Spock said, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"." -Jjjerm
This last update ensured that just about anyone can create an outcast and slave right on the spot. For the sake of the server health and overall RP experience, i hope they play that way.
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