Is it worth having past 30 ride?

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Reallylongunneededplayername
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Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Reallylongunneededplayername » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:54 am

Is it :?:
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Hinty
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Hinty » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:29 pm

Yes and no.

While 30 Ride is apparently all you will ever need to stop your horse kicking you off, on Arelith you only gain tumble AC if your Ride is high enough also. So if you have 40 Tumble, you will not benefit from all that AC on your horse unless you have 40 Ride.

If you don't have Tumble.. well, according to the wiki there is a speed bonus based on ride skill, 1% every 3 points (not including dex bonus) Some horses max out at 10% but some can reach 30% (Not sure how accurate this is, as in order to reach 30% you would need to hit 90 Ride, and I'm not sure even a Cavalier can reach that sort of score)

So yeah, if you have Tumble over 30 then you will want Ride to match. If you don't... probably not worth it for a few percentages of speed boost on some horses.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Nitro » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:32 pm

The AC from tumble is hard ranks only, so 30 is the highest you can get any bonus AC from tumble on Arelith.

Gouge Away
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Gouge Away » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:52 pm

Wow, I think I assumed the ride skill did a lot more than it does. So a cavalier who gets 25 ride skill points as a class ability doesn't really need to dip beyond 6 or 10, there's no combat bonus besides the tumble AC and a little speed?

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Bunnysmack » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:16 pm

Just the bit of speed. As Nitro pointed out, you can't get more AC from tumble than the 30 hard ranks, which also means you can't get any more riding AC after 30 ranks. Quoting the riding article on the server wiki:
Riders keep one point of AC gained from Tumble for every 5 points they have in Ride. Characters with less Ride than Tumble will typically lose AC. Having more Ride will not add to AC, however.
More than 30 ride will not add any AC.
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Gouge Away
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Gouge Away » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:36 pm

Seems like for cavaliers at least you could little more bonus with heavy ride investment (like +1 AB for every 30 ranks of ride when using a lance or something... I dunno).

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Hinty » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:10 am

They get the benefit of never having to invest a point in ride after taking the class, since between the class ability and the 8 ranks you need to take the class you are already over 30.

On the one hand it means you can make just about any build into a cavelier at the investment of 8 skill points and a feat. On the other hand it means that just about any build can be a cavelier with almost no investment, its hardly Prestige class worthy.

That said, it seems really strange to me to have a class that is heavily focused on a skill that is actively wasting skill points if they put points in it.

Would rather see it being changed to "+1 AB per ten Ride" or something, this would encourage not only putting points in it, but also maxing it out. Maybe throw in epic skill focus ride for free at level 5 or something.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Gouge Away » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:01 am

Yeah I would have fully invested in ride without thinking if I played one since it seems like what you're expected to do.

Considering any investment or benefit from being on a horse disappears when indoors or in a dungeon I think cavaliers could use more oomph the times they are on horseback. Maybe that's on the agenda, IDK

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Good Character » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:42 am

Hinty wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:10 am
On the one hand it means you can make just about any build into a cavelier at the investment of 8 skill points and a feat. On the other hand it means that just about any build can be a cavelier with almost no investment, its hardly Prestige class worthy.
It's a prestige class for many reasons, though not specifically, because it's 1) A niche class, 2) Enhances a specific aspect of gameplay (biggest point), and 3) Limited to 5 levels.

Champion of Torm/Divine Champion is in the same position, expect it has even lower entry level requirements and can go to level 20.

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Kalos
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Kalos » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:26 pm

What's the minimum ride number to at least stay in your saddle?

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Good Character » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:37 pm

Kalos wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:26 pm
What's the minimum ride number to at least stay in your saddle?
Allegedly some say 10, some say 15, and some say 30. In my experience, I have only found 30 to be true. Plus the speed bump is fantastic, if you can spare 30 points in Ride.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Eira » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:52 pm

I never fall off at 35 ride, yet someone I play with
who also has 35 total gets thrown off a lot, often within 5 minutes of the last time.

I have 33 hard ranks, and they have 6 hard ranks + dexterity and gear.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Gouge Away » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:17 pm

I don't really think this game can support secret mechanics on skills like ride and climb, honestly. It's too hard to tell if they're working as they're supposed to or if there's something broken behind the scenes (which I suspect climb is...) And investing for the sake of experimenting is a one-way trip, you can't undo dedicating way more skill points than you needed.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by the grim yeeter » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:39 pm

Gouge Away wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:17 pm
I don't really think this game can support secret mechanics on skills like ride and climb, honestly. It's too hard to tell if they're working as they're supposed to or if there's something broken behind the scenes (which I suspect climb is...) And investing for the sake of experimenting is a one-way trip, you can't undo dedicating way more skill points than you needed.
You are one of many, me included, to oppose (intentionally) opaque mechanics, but I fear we can forget about our dreams of transparency on Arelith ever becoming reality.
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Hinty » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:24 pm

As i understand it the NwN Devs have said 30 should ensure you stay on your horse at all times.

I've found that I only rarely fall off after I hit 15.

I am not sure if the Devs specified if the 30 is ranks or total.

The issue with transparency here is not down to Arelith, it is with the base mechanic of the game, it is complex and I don't think the Devs have every fully explained how it works beyond the "once you have 30 you should be fine" thing. The Arelith team can't give us more detail because they probably do not have it to give.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Drowboy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:38 pm

Uhhhhhhhhh. Nwn's ride system is very simple. It was Areliths devs that decided to make it so complicated it couldn't be explained.
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Gouge Away » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:55 pm

Hinty wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:24 pm
The issue with transparency here is not down to Arelith, it is with the base mechanic of the game, it is complex and I don't think the Devs have every fully explained how it works beyond the "once you have 30 you should be fine" thing. The Arelith team can't give us more detail because they probably do not have it to give.
My main issue with transparency is you don't know if something is fully working as intended, if it's bugging, or if it's half-implemented with more to come. When skill points are precious and can't be shifted around that stuff matters.

Like, to bring up climb again, I don't think you get the bonuses you're supposed to but I don't even know how to check to write a proper bug report. Or if I'll get scolded for writing an unnecessary bug report because the skill is unfinished and I should have waited, or if I'm just mistaken in my expectations. Ride is the same thing, if it doesn't work the way you think it should based on all possible researchable info you can't really ask if something's not working right or if you do the answer will be vague and unhelpful.

It's annoying to players not to know and it seems annoying to devs that they have to answer questions. But this is a homemade server without extensive bug tests and it can be hard to tell what's working right even when you have all possible info.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Nitro » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:17 pm

The dev who made the ride system has long since bailed, so it's hard to get information about whether it's working as intended or not. Not that he was very forthcoming with information about the system in the first place.

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Dreams
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Dreams » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:17 am

I’ve played a few characters who have had incredibly different experiences on horseback:

Rogue/BG/PDK - 6 ride. Rode horses all of the time, fell off maybe once or twice in total. Ever.

Spellsword - 30 ride. Would routinely fall off horses. Had mounted combat also.

Favoured Soul - 20 ride, had 1 item giving +6 ride. I forget what other modifiers, but he never fell off.

There’s a huge amount of variables that are supposedly moving the numbers around.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by the grim yeeter » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:49 pm

Well, that surely doesn't sound right.

Sounds like we could use a dev's clarification on this. Is there any dev that could look into this for us and solve this mystery for every player once and for all?
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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Wrips » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:57 pm

Looking at the numbers, it probably works like Climb, where some classes receives a natural bonus to it. I suspect that's the same with Ride.

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Re: Is it worth having past 30 ride?

Post by Gouge Away » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:58 pm

Wrips wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:57 pm
Looking at the numbers, it probably works like Climb, where some classes receives a natural bonus to it. I suspect that's the same with Ride.
Climb which I think is busted as my 36 dex rogue/shadowdancer can't climb a relatively simple rope until putting on a few pieces of purchased climb gear. But I don't know if it's busted because the mechanics are secret. That's the problem with ride too.

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