New weapon limitations?

[KeldonDonovans]

Hey, I had a question about weapons that I didn't know where else to put it. So here goes nothing.

First off, let me say that the added weapons are amazing. Really neat. Lots of variety in melee weaponry. But I don't know what the limitations to this weapon adding are. I had an idea, and I'm not even sure if it is plausible. I get that the suggestion board is closed till next year, I just want to set a reminder to myself to suggest it next year if this kind of thing is even possible.

But basically, is it possible to make a weapon such as a wand? Not like the wands we currently use that cast specific spells, more like a traditional wizard's wand that is used as a focus more so than anything else. I'm not sure exactly what the limitations of this kind of addition would be. Could it give a bonus to spell attacks? Increase DC? Increase spell level? Could you make it so that the wielder could set a default attack spell, and then when they click "attack", with the wand equipped, the default is to cast said spell (assuming its available)?

Again, this is not a suggestion. I am asking if it is possible. I was a programmer for a while, and I am interested in learning more about the way this system works, so I figured I'd ask you fine people.

[Ebonstar]

so like harry potter?

If you look at mages all over they seem to carry daggers or clubs or whatever, those are magic foci if im not mistaken

[KeldonDonovans]

so like harry potter?

If you look at mages all over they seem to carry daggers or clubs or whatever, those are magic foci if im not mistaken

I mean, technically, yes, Harry Potter is one example of wizards using wands as a focus. There is also a million other sources. Other than D&D specifically, that's what wands do, they don't store some number of castings of a spell that Joe Schmoe the rogue can pick up and fire off cause he twiddled the stick correctly. That would be a much more potent magic item, such as a rod.

And yes, a mage could carry a dagger or a club or what-have you, but that item, even if magically enhanced, provides little to no benefit to their casting overall. If my sorcerer tosses a dagger in each hand, each with a whopping +3 AB, +6 damage, keen, massive criticals, and +1d6 (element of choice) damage, as is, it provides him absolutely nothing for casting in any way. It'd be better to equip a basic bronze dagger I enchant with +1 charisma, because then with two of them I'll at least get +1 on my save DC's.

Regardless of the viability of the inclusion though, I am more so trying to figure out if it is even possible. If it is possible to design wands (and other mage-foci) as a weapon, that they could then wield and enchant for -actual- effects. If it is possible, then anything that could be done with them would be an entire discussion of balance well above my paygrade, I only brought it up because every mage I see is wielding a staff. There is variety in the mundane guys, all over the place I see all kinds of different weapons. Mages? Staff.

[Ebonstar]

so like harry potter?

If you look at mages all over they seem to carry daggers or clubs or whatever, those are magic foci if im not mistaken

I mean, technically, yes, Harry Potter is one example of wizards using wands as a focus. There is also a million other sources. Other than D&D specifically, that's what wands do, they don't store some number of castings of a spell that Joe Schmoe the rogue can pick up and fire off cause he twiddled the stick correctly. That would be a much more potent magic item, such as a rod.

And yes, a mage could carry a dagger or a club or what-have you, but that item, even if magically enhanced, provides little to no benefit to their casting overall. If my sorcerer tosses a dagger in each hand, each with a whopping +3 AB, +6 damage, keen, massive criticals, and +1d6 (element of choice) damage, as is, it provides him absolutely nothing for casting in any way. It'd be better to equip a basic bronze dagger I enchant with +1 charisma, because then with two of them I'll at least get +1 on my save DC's.

Regardless of the viability of the inclusion though, I am more so trying to figure out if it is even possible. If it is possible to design wands (and other mage-foci) as a weapon, that they could then wield and enchant for -actual- effects. If it is possible, then anything that could be done with them would be an entire discussion of balance well above my paygrade, I only brought it up because every mage I see is wielding a staff. There is variety in the mundane guys, all over the place I see all kinds of different weapons. Mages? Staff.

no the daggers or clubs or whatever being held are not weapons, they are enchanted to be the focus and boost to help the mage spells

[KeldonDonovans]

no the daggers or clubs or whatever being held are not weapons, they are enchanted to be the focus and boost to help the mage spells

So this already exists in game? I can take a dagger, and enchant it to give me a bonus on my ranged touch attacks? Or raise my Spell save DC? Or make it so that when I click a bad guy with my plain attack icon, it defaults to my specified spell?

I understand text can sound ruder than is meant, please be aware that I am not trying to belittle you or anything, I am honestly surprised by this, and am trying to figure out how to do it. As is, my warlock walks around unarmed because the only thing I've found worth using has an item level restriction on it that I don't meet. If I can enchant a dagger to give him a bonus to hit, or raise his DC's, or (biggest QoL improvement ever) make it so that the attack action resorts to one of his spells instead of making me run into melee, it'd be awesome.

[Xerah]

Add +1 CON and/or +1 Saves on your weapons in the enchanting basin.

[Ebonstar]

no the daggers or clubs or whatever being held are not weapons, they are enchanted to be the focus and boost to help the mage spells

So this already exists in game? I can take a dagger, and enchant it to give me a bonus on my ranged touch attacks? Or raise my Spell save DC? Or make it so that when I click a bad guy with my plain attack icon, it defaults to my specified spell?

I understand text can sound ruder than is meant, please be aware that I am not trying to belittle you or anything, I am honestly surprised by this, and am trying to figure out how to do it. As is, my warlock walks around unarmed because the only thing I've found worth using has an item level restriction on it that I don't meet. If I can enchant a dagger to give him a bonus to hit, or raise his DC's, or (biggest QoL improvement ever) make it so that the attack action resorts to one of his spells instead of making me run into melee, it'd be awesome.

Xerah knows alot more about this than I do, i dont play mages,

[KeldonDonovans]

Add +1 CON and/or +1 Saves on your weapons in the enchanting basin.

Ah, see, that's what I was talking about. That's not a focus. That's a dagger that has some beneficial properties, sure. But at the end of the day, you use it to stab people, or just milk the benefits of it while you cast, even though the benefits don't affect your casting.

What I am asking about is an actual focus, be it a wand, rod, mind stone, whatever, that actually modifies your spell casting. Enchant it to give evocation spells +2 DC. Ranged touch attacks +3 to hit. Spells cast through this focus are automatically silent. Maybe get more intense, and have any spells cast through that focus reroll 1's. Break the world and have spells cast through it maximized and empowered. But most importantly, make it so that when I click to attack a guy, I cast my default spell, rather than charging my 4 HP/level wizard into battle with a dagger. That's what I'm trying to figure out if it is possible.

And again, this question is not regarding whether or not this should be implemented in Arelith. This question is not regarding how I can work around the lack of this option in Arelith. This is me trying to understand the engine limitations, and figure out if such a thing is possible. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[Ebonstar]

Add +1 CON and/or +1 Saves on your weapons in the enchanting basin.

Ah, see, that's what I was talking about. That's not a focus. That's a dagger that has some beneficial properties, sure. But at the end of the day, you use it to stab people, or just milk the benefits of it while you cast, even though the benefits don't affect your casting.

What I am asking about is an actual focus, be it a wand, rod, mind stone, whatever, that actually modifies your spell casting. Enchant it to give evocation spells +2 DC. Ranged touch attacks +3 to hit. Spells cast through this focus are automatically silent. Maybe get more intense, and have any spells cast through that focus reroll 1's. Break the world and have spells cast through it maximized and empowered. But most importantly, make it so that when I click to attack a guy, I cast my default spell, rather than charging my 4 HP/level wizard into battle with a dagger. That's what I'm trying to figure out if it is possible.

And again, this question is not regarding whether or not this should be implemented in Arelith. This question is not regarding how I can work around the lack of this option in Arelith. This is me trying to understand the engine limitations, and figure out if such a thing is possible. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

sounds like something that would work well in PnP but would be severely OP in the game here. and to click and cast your spell just assign it to your quickbars

[AstralUniverse]

you can also add concentration, spellcraft, discipline, spellslots and stats to these daggers you'll not be stabbing with, to represent that they are definitely 'magic' focused. AB bonus on weapons still works on range touch attacks with the exception of warlock's Eldrich blast (someone please correct me if its incorrect) so you can, technically, use weapons with ab to get a better roll on touch attacks if you really want, or cast true strike and get +20 instead for the next two spells you cast.

[Mattamue]

But most importantly, make it so that when I click to attack a guy, I cast my default spell, rather than charging my 4 HP/level wizard into battle with a dagger. That's what I'm trying to figure out if it is possible.

DnD wizards stand back and shoot a crossbow. That's the heritage that's come up through game mechanically and through the culture. Arelith is a unique subset where summons last for 24 hours. The mage staff spell slot stat sick exists in the Arelith meta because you can have a summon out all the time instead of having to save it for a boss or tough encounter. So, an Arelith spell caster can wander around without worrying about having to have a free hand for their xbow. Having spell slot magic staffs encourage walking about with the stats sick.

So for what you're asking, can you have something other than a staff? Yes, as Xerah said, you can add stats to a dagger, but he explained it curtly. To expand, you can have a dagger with buffs, but you can't have a dagger with two level six spell slots because there isn't a dagger in crafting or in a drop that is mechanically similar or good enough to come close to the current magic staffs. So, everyone walks around with a staff because two level six slots is hard to beat.

As for the "clicking" and having a wand do something I feel like you're coming from the WoW angle. WoW mages could auto attack with a wand from range. That makes sense for what you're asking for. Wizard don't want to run up and bop someone with their magic staffs either. I bet it is possible to rig something like reskinning a crossbow to act like a wand. Or, a use action applied to any item that would work like a gonne shot. There's just nothing like that in Arelith.

Granted, even if you could reskin something to allow ranged auto attack you don't want the NPC ai to prioritize your wizard over the summon.

[Mattamue]

AB bonus on weapons still works on range touch attacks with the exception of warlock's Eldrich blast (someone please correct me if its incorrect)

Doesn't add ab to earthkin defender touch attack debilitating strike. Just tested that recently.

[Maladus]

I don’t know whether adding a spell to a wand as you are describing is possible, but I could feasibly see the possibility of having a new weapon type added that is exclusive to casters (arcane) that would open up the possibilities for enchantment. Currently there are a lot of things that are not enchantable, but it makes sense to me that you would be able to add some of the options you’ve described and make them exclusive to the weapon. I think this would be a rather large project though since it might require some art resources in addition to the code.

[Hinty]

NwN adds the AB bonus from your weapons to your Ranged Touch Attacks.
It does not add it to your standard non ranged Touch Attacks.

Just one of those weird choices Bioware made back in the day.

As for the OP. Making a weapon that casts on attack would be tricky and probably over powered, not to mention a lot of work for minimal benefit since almost every mage out there has infinite casts of an attack spell from the Arelith modifications to the Greater Spell Focus feats.

[-XXX-]

Could see these having the Extra feat: maximize/empower spell property added to them

[KeldonDonovans]

NwN adds the AB bonus from your weapons to your Ranged Touch Attacks.
It does not add it to your standard non ranged Touch Attacks.

I had read that Arelith disabled this feature? Are you saying if I use my Eldritch blast with a +3 dagger, I get +3 to hit with it?

As for the OP. Making a weapon that casts on attack would be tricky and probably over powered, not to mention a lot of work for minimal benefit since almost every mage out there has infinite casts of an attack spell from the Arelith modifications to the Greater Spell Focus feats.

Gotta clarify two things. 1.) Again, I wasn't trying to debate balance or such, just whether or not such a thing is possible, and 2.) I wasn't talking "grant infinite uses" of a spell via an item, I was saying I set my default spell, and then when I click to attack, it casts the spell ~IF~ I have it available. In the case of an infinite spell, it'll cast it every time. In the case of a non infinite spell, clicking to attack will only use that spell if you have that spell available, so I'm not sure where the "overpowered" comes into play. From where I'm standing all it is doing is saving the player the time it takes to hit "F3" or whatever their go-to spell is set to in their quickslots, and saving them from the misclick all casters have done that causes them to charge into melee.

And a note to the assorted responders talking in general about how OP the idea is, this was not meant to be a discussion on balance, or how to implement this idea without breaking things in favor of mages. I am just trying to figure out if it is mechanically possible. If you are worried about balance, but such a thing ~is~ possible, you could literally make wands half as good as staffs (since you could theoretically dual wield) or exactly the same as staffs (and make it so you can't dual wield) and call it a day. The idea was for variety, not game breaking mechanics of doom.

[Nitro]

I don't think that's possible. It's certainly not something I've seen on any server over the many years I've been playing this game. The closest you could get would probably be reskinning a ranged weapons projectiles to look like a spell effect.

[Hinty]

Arelith has disabled the weapon AB bonus to touch attacks for Warlocks only, so no it doesn't help with Eldritch blast. For any other caster, the bonus still applies.

As for can it be done... I have seen some pretty amazing things done by the NwN modding community, even without Haks, so with a community with 20 years of modding experience, I am never going to say "No it can't be done" but... pretty close. Closest you are likely to get are "On hit: Cast spell" properties, which are not connected to if you can cast the spell, and DCs are normally pitifully low. (Although the DC can probably be fixed)