Bane & Friends

[Cortex]

The concept of banites, banite knights, banite churches, banite sects, banites soldiers and so on is all very common. And then sometimes places that the worship of Bane is forced onto the population or similar. I'm more curious about the more common worshippers.

Are there commoners who willingly worship Bane? Why?
Are there able bodied soldiers/mages/whatever who worship Bane but are not interested in conquest or power? Why they worship him if they exist? Would they just be conscripted by the more military banites?
If not for power or acknowledgement of Bane as the true god, is there any reason to worship Bane?

[Recite the Sins]

I think the best answer for this would be RL feudalism, and the use of religion there. Commoners were taught that they had their role, their place in the hierarchy, and they by and large respected that because that was how things were done. Literacy, education, and prospects beyond being a dung-farmer were few for many, and so until that changed, it wasn't exactly impossible for rulers to claim divine right and for the commoners to keep farming dung.

This is difficult in fantasy settings, where there's more than one God, and where multiple Gods are dedicated to looking after people like dung-farmers, and other Gods would rather see the dung-farmers replace their tyrants (or actually good leaders, too) with fire and anarchy, or merchant republics.

It should be remembered that while on Arelith every character is already larger than life, and is unlikely to be the type to be force-converted so that they can continue to plough their dung-fields, the actual game setting itself has a lot more commoners in it that have similar life-prospects or lack thereof to the ones I mentioned from real life. It's just going to be difficult/impossible to try and import that to Arelith solely due to the playerbase.

Plenty of soldiers would not be interested in conquest and power; the entire idea of a career military man is often on escaping said dung-farming life and earning some "honest" coin, and coming home to raise his own family. This would fit perfectly in the "divine hierarchy" approach to Bane. He'd not be interested in carving out a political dominion, but a homestead, and less in having courtiers, vassals and slaves, but a family. The difference comes in how alignment shapes that. He'd likely beat the tar out of his kids, for example. In this way, a commoner and soldier Banite can still find and have a place in such a society. Indeed, for that society to even be logical, it must have the commoners on the bottom, and the king at the top.

Mages who aren't interested in power are probably drawn to Oghma, Mystra, or what have you, as they tend to be the "knowledge for its own sake" types. Bane exists for the other type. Such a society is likely to inherently foster the sort of social jostling for power that would be found in a Banite priesthood in its regular society as well, so even if a mage wouldn't be up for colonising the natives or butchering the infidel, they'd probably be up for self-empowerment and self-defence in the face of those that are. Conquest and power aren't just something for us Europa Universalis/Crusader Kings aficionados, it also means being able to blast your former master into smoke to get wizard tenure, or to otherwise maintain and build on your rank, your position, and that of your family's.

tl;dr: Bane is representative of a Lawful Evil Society just as much as he represents the world domination schtick.

[Madukthedoppelganger]

Commoners in general probably wouldn't worship Bane, as he is viewed as pretty much a card-carrying villain. To quote Faiths and Pantheons, "When news of Bane's destruction during the Time of Troubles made its way throughout Faerun, no fewer than twenty-seven nations declared national festivals of celebration and thanks-giving".

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

Commoners in general probably wouldn't worship Bane, as he is viewed as pretty much a card-carrying villain. To quote Faiths and Pantheons, "When news of Bane's destruction during the Time of Troubles made its way throughout Faerun, no fewer than twenty-seven nations declared national festivals of celebration and thanks-giving".

Not as likely in places where goodly faiths take precedence, but simply because non-Banite nations and cultures are more common does not imply that where Bane is worshiped that commoners would not pay homage, especially when their livelihoods might depend on it. Peasants, especially in a feudal setting, would all too likely take the path of least resistance, and even if they weren't particularly zealous about the dogma, praising Bane on Banite land would be downright common sense, especially if it yielded good responses from the men and women in power (tyrannical Banites interested in the stability and surety of their vassals' and population's being).

[Scurvy Cur]

It's worth noting that one of the structural draws of a lawful evil society to the commoner is the promise that obedience and complicit participation in the society will be met with a higher quality of life for everyone that participates than they would have had otherwise, but usually requires them to demonstrate their dedication and active participation as a precondition: Serve in the army of doom, and you and your family will never want for food or shelter again. Accept your place as a peasant and offer no resistance to the commands of your superiors, and your home will be kept safe from invaders and criminals.

There is also almost always a flip side to this though, often unspoken but nearly always well understood: Fail to comply or accept your place in our society, and an example will be made of you. Disobey, and you will be punished. Your comfort and wellbeing will always be contingent on your obedience.

Thus, people are compelled to simultaneously strengthen the evil society and accept evil behaviors as normal, and encouraged by a tandem appeal to the yearning for a better life, and the fear of the consequences of being labeled an outsider.

And remember, commoners most frequently do not have the luxury of moving somewhere ruled by more benevolent institutions if they get stuck in an LE society, so often their best option is participation. In a lawful evil society, this is intentional.

[P Three]

I would almost say yes, but in the same way one "worships" Beshaba. If he's appeased maybe he won't wreck the joint.

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[Cortex]

Related to the original question but not directly towards banites:

How are people viewed, while they worship evil aligned deities, but aren't evil themselves or don't do horrible evil deeds? Thinking Arelith standards, most people who worship evil deities are bound to do something horrible eventually, a minority won't, and then there's evil people who don't necessarily do anything evil but will take what they can given the chance.

edit: Also evil people who won't do evil things because good/neutral things are of their benefit.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Sidebar: What Recite the Sins is referring to is "the Great Chain of Being" wherein all of life was hierarchical. This lasted well throughout the the High and Late Medieval periods, through the Renaissance into the Early Modern, and you still found traces of it in poetry in the 19th century.

Extremely prevalent and dominant thought. The world was a hierarchy, and you had to know your place in it.

[Scurvy Cur]

How are people viewed, while they worship evil aligned deities, but aren't evil themselves or don't do horrible evil deeds?

The biggest question to answer here is why those characters are worshiping evil deities in the first place. A lot of worship for the Furies, for example, is based on the premise that supplication will help to ward off misfortune or malice. These deities make perfect sense for non-evil characters to pay homage to any time it might be relevant, and I wouldn't even blink twice.

When you start considering deities that are evil with an agenda, there should probably be a concrete reason why the non-evil supplicant is worshiping that deity in particular (I mean, ideally, every character should be able to answer this question, and hopefully have a better answer than "I went to Torm School as a kid", but it is especially important for characters that are making a conscious decision to worship a deity with an evil agenda), rather than a more neutralish counterpart whose faith does not actively do horrible things to people as part of their everyday ceremony. There's a lot of room for good answers here, but also a lot of room for bad answers.

In general, if the answer isn't particularly satisfactory, I'm usually of the opinion that the person is worshiping the wrong deity, and this is largely because a lot of the evil deities on offer in Forgotten Realms lore are given some pretty overwhelmingly evil aims, that are difficult to justify supporting without either being coerced or forced by circumstance to support (okay for non-evil characters in my book, sharing those aims (and thus being evil), or being willing to support the agenda for the personal benefits (and thus being evil).

Also evil people who won't do evil things because good/neutral things are of their benefit.

It's sort of hard in circumstances where good/neutral behavior is also the course of best self interest to really determine the alignment of a character. The real determinant on the line evil-neutral dividing line is what a character would do when an evil course of action would be of the most personal profit, much like how the difference between a good and neutral character can be determined by looking at what the character would do when the good course comes at a personal cost.

An evil that is never exposed to circumstances in which harming others benefits them (or at the very least makes them sadistically gleeful) is as functionally neutral as a good character for whom being good is an effortless, costless choice, because they never have to make a hard call.

[Stath]

And then sometimes places that the worship of Bane is forced onto the population or similar.
Are there commoners who willingly worship Bane? Why?

Or perhaps he's wondering why you would shoot a man before throwing him out of an airplane.

[High Primate]

Worship can be loving or fearful (or take many other forms, depending on the god's dogma). I would imagine Sunites worship Sune to celebrate and express their appreciation of her. Bane, on the other hand, is worshiped out of fear of defying his power. I imagine commoners would worship him in that way: as a form of appeasement to stay his wrath.

Worshippers of Bane can be Lawful Neutral, and I imagine that most peasants who actually appreciated his dogma and thought it was right would probably be (a certain kind of) lawful neutral: sticklers for the rules and deferential to authority.

You can also be a polytheist in the FR, praying to many different gods without exclusively worshiping one. One may pray to Tymora when luck is needed, to Chauntea during harvest, to Umberlee before sailing, etc. I think this is the way it is with most people in the FR, in fact. They'll invoke different dieties as needed without exclusively devoting themselves to one. I'll bet a lot of commoners might pray to Bane without actually embracing him in their heart, but to appease him, because they know he is a powerful force and fear angering him. A populace whose government was controlled by Bane would probably tend to do this more often.

It seems like Bane is not the sort of god that most commoners would exclusively devote themselves to worshiping. That is because he is a god who favors those at the top of the political hierarchy: the meek do not receive his gifts, only his toleration if they obey. Commoners might pray to him, but not choose him as a deity.

It's like the Empire from Star Wars. People don't like it, but they pretend to like it and show outward deference and respect because they are afraid not to. The Empire knows this and approves: what it wants is to be feared, not loved. I think Bane is largely the same way.

[The GrumpyCat]

Well said Primate! I just want to add something:

Worshippers of Bane can be Lawful Neutral, and I imagine that most peasants who actually appreciated his dogma and thought it was right would probably be (a certain kind of) lawful neutral: sticklers for the rules and deferential to authority.

Just to remind all - you don't need to be near a gods alignment to worship him just (in theory) get any boons.

So no, you can't have a Chaotic Good priest of Bane, but in theory you could have a Chaotic Good worshiper of devotee of Bane.
It'd be very, very odd... and I doubt Bane would ever really appreciate anything the worshiper did for HIm, but worshipers can come from any alignment technically.