Slave Drama

[Waldo52]

My character is a slave

Eventually someone decided they wanted to own me and took me to the auction house. They took possession over my character.

This was going well until another character who wanted to own me got angry with my new master and killed him.

The new master took me to the auction house and tried to figure out how to get my slave ownership transfered to him. I think he actually had the slave deed because he bullied my owner into giving it to him.

I now have an actual owner and a much stronger character who uses force to push me into serving him instead.

Is there an actual means of transferring ownership? If so, does it require the participation of the original owner? Is this sort of role-play with bickering over slaves considered normal here? Is there any kind of taboo around being one character's slave by the book but serving someone else in practice?

The RP is a lot of fun but I'm a bit confused as to weather interfering in the ownership of someone else's slave is a no-no. In other words, are we doing something wrong or is this normal?

[Rei_Jin]

Transferring slaves is a process.

1. First slave owner sells you back to the Slavemaster
2. Second slave owner then buys you from the Slavemaster

[Mattamue]

Imagine you've gotten into CRPGs because of BGIII and you've finished the campaign. You start looking around for other CRPGs and stumble upon NWN and Arelith. This thread is one of the threads you see.

[Curve]

Slave rp gives me the special feeling of cringing, gagging and being judgmental all at once so I avoid it.

[Eira]

Slavery in Andunor is a lease system. Your character is owned by the city of Andunor, and as such, the one holding your character's papers is merely leasing their services. So yes, transferring "ownership" is a matter that requires the original leaser to be involved.

Killing someone to get their collared slave is about as likely to work as killing someone to get their apartment.

[forsakis]

The dichotomy between the no cybersex rule and the existence of the slavery system is astonishing.

@Waldo52 how are you impacted by the drama you describe, is this something you are fine with or are you distressed by it ?

I can only imagine the psychological impact of this situation on the original owner.

Remove the slave system at once or at the very least add a consensual layer to it, the slave character should have to consent to an owner and be able to withraw at any time. Make a rule to forbid PvP to force another player to relinquish ownership. This shit is psychological rape and belongs to a far gone era.

[Rei_Jin]

Slavery is ENTIRELY built on OOC agreement. No player of a slave can ever be legally forced against their will for their character to be owned by another character.

If one player is using PvP to try to get around this, then that's a reportable offence.

[forsakis]

Slavery is ENTIRELY built on OOC agreement. No player of a slave can ever be legally forced against their will for their character to be owned by another character.

If one player is using PvP to try to get around this, then that's a reportable offence.

If my knowledge is up to date a slave needs 500k to free himself and I'm not even sure they are informed of this since the very beginning. What I'm talking about is to bake it in the system the player has to be made aware from the get go that his consent is mandatory and he can get out at any time free of charge.

For your last sentence the no cybersex rule is emphasized whereas the "PvP to steal a slave" prohibition rule I wasn't even aware it existed. What good is such rule if the people don't know they can reach out to DMs and be respected. Well OP I guess if what Rei_Jin says is true you can inform the initial owner of this rule he can complain to DMs if he's not ok with what's going on. In my mind it's still not okay it's no proactively enforced.

[Rei_Jin]

It is two million GP for a slave to be freed, or they can make use of a FOIG mechanic to get free, although this comes with RP consequences.

The Slavery System is in the process of being updated/adjusted, but as I am not a member of the Arelith staff, I know nothing more than that.

Slaves and Slave Owners should always communicate OOC to some degree to ensure that all is being done with approval, what boundaries there are, etc. If this is not done, players open themselves up to some very, very toxic situations.

Whilst the wiki does not currently say anything about slavery aspects being entirely opt in, that is certainly how it has been treated in the four plus years I've been here. No-one can ever legally forced against their will for their character to become a slave, and no slave can ever legally be forced against their will to accept a certain owner.

Players, at all times, retain their agency, even if it means that they are getting other undesirable outcomes.

[magistrasa]

Also you can simpy request that the DMs remove your collar if the environment becomes toxic and unfun.

That being said, the slavery system could really use an overhaul. I do think there's a way to implement it that's cool and fun and conducive to quality roleplay, but as it stands, I'd rather it simply not exist than continue indefinitely in its current state.

[Dreams]

The slavery system is an absolute mess and needs to be looked at or dismantled.

[forsakis]

People have been distressed as a consequence of this system, there are dynamics at play and subtle design choices that empowers abusive behaviors. For instance the slave character never has to explicitly consent, he's told to enter a pit and has nothing to say. If a powerful character previously subdued him then RP itself may compell him to physically do what he's told.

I've witnessed max level characters knocking out fresh slave chars over and over in the area where you can't die in the Andunor tavern, telling them how to dress, branding them, max levels bullying lvl 4 chars to steal their slaves with whom they were levelling with. But this is RP right ? So who was I going to complain to and what for ? As a new player discovering the server I didn't know if it was okay or not, no DM interveened during those situations that's for sure.

The slave system has a BDSM tint which is dichotomous with the "Zero tolerance" post.

To me best solution is to delete this system at once, second best is to make a strong baked-in consensual layer.

Anyway I rest my case, I expressed my point of view and arguments. I don't buy your dismissive replies. May the server owners do what they will.

[magistrasa]

There's already a strong baked-in consensual layer to every aspect of the server's roleplay. There's actually a button you can press on the top right corner of the screen that will immediately end your participation in whatever ongoing situation you may find yourself in that you don't like. When two people are actively engaged in a scene like what you're describing, it's safe to assume that their continued participation in the scene counts as consent. If you don't like what is happening in front of you, you can log off. Or you can just walk out of the zone, use a lens, type "-blind," whatever.

It's real good-hearted of you to express concern over your fellow players' well-being, but let's not be silly here. What do you mean, "Who was I going to complain to?" The DMs have never been more accessible, and there's multiple means you can utilize to contact them. "People have been distressed as a consequence of this system?" That's a nothing statement. People are disproportionately distressed by nonsense all the time and making arguments based on a personal moral stance is a crappy way to judge something's merits. Bigots can be distressed by the same-sex relationships on the server. Emotionally immature chronic self-inserts can be distressed by the possibility of PvP as a threat to their pristine fantasy. I'm distressed every day by the existence of Loremaster, which is really just one more of many reasons why it should be deleted immediately. If we changed the game every time someone reported their "distress," we wouldn't have a server.

Enough has been said about the current slavery system's merit deficiency over the years so I'm not about to put in the effort to go through that song and dance again. It seems pretty obvious to me that it's coated in dev repellant and will probably never be overhauled or significantly changed, so the best we can hope for is that it will be removed sometime in the next 2-3 years. Its real problems have nothing to do with BDSM-adjacency though. That's just you projecting your issues onto the way other people want to roleplay a character arc.

Of course, it's hard to ignore that 90% of slaves have female character models. Come on, guys...

[forsakis]

@magistrasa I would appreciate if you or any subsequent replies could refrain from using adhominem adjacent arguments such as "you're projecting" or "immature self inserts" and what not, partly because I already rested my case and people are free to express the "merits" of the system without me chiming in further.

Now I'm going to reply to you. Yes I'm expressing my concern over fellow players, that's exactly what I'm doing because I recognized a pattern that's affecting people unrelated to me, do you have problem with it ? If I'm going to reply to you on the same level as you replied to me I believe you have the mindset of an abuser and that's why you're so defensive and chose adhominem adjacent arguments rather than defending the "merits" of the system. Go ahead speak about the merits instead of talking about me, the system has some merits I never said there were none.

Regarding the argument "just leave, or blind yourself", it is totally off point because it can be used about anything and everything, "why ban cybersex, hate speech and what not, just blind yourself !". Nobody can blind themselves before being first exposed to the material they are blinding themselves from. People discovering the game may not have signed or been warned about some material that can reasonably be considered as shocking in a PG13 environment.

As for the 2-3years to delete the slave system that's a good one, deleting the dialog line that enrols new slaves is a 3 years endeavor ! No. It's one decision away from being implemented by the end of the week.

[magistrasa]

@magistrasa I would appreciate if you or any subsequent replies could refrain from using adhominem adjacent arguments

I believe you have the mindset of an abuser

This shit is psychological rape

I understand you might not be aware of this because it appears you made your forum account - [checks watch] - today, but I am also someone who has invested a lot of effort and consideration into the health and wellbeing of the server and its playerbase. That's why your posts bother me. I am not being malicious or antagonistic when I tell you that your mindset towards this topic is deeply unwell and I encourage you to examine your relationship with roleplay.

Anyways, OP's question was answered and this thread clearly has a poor trajectory going for it, so we're probably about to get locked anyways.

[DM Raven]

magistrasa had it right! Locking this topic.