Monk with staff

[Ozzy.nl]

Hey folks.

So I have a concept in my head for a monk using a quarterback as his weapon but honestly I can't think of a good build.

The idea is that the monk should be decent in deception so disguise is a must for this build as is the quarterstaff.

Does any one know how to build something viable. With the main focus on pve but pvp should also be decent.

[grip]

Monk6/Fighter8/Rogue16: Epic Dodge, Crippling Strike, 16 Pre-epic BAB, A ton of skills, decent saves, and crazy damage.

[Jagel]

Probably keep monk at six lvls and put in a good amount of rogue lvls as well as few ranger/fighter lvls
*edit* ninja'd

[Lorkas]

I'm curious why 8 fighter levels instead of 5 fighter levels and 19 rogue levels for 2d6 extra sneak attack damage and extra skill points.

[grip]

I like my version of it because if ends up with more epic feats, has better saves, and (this is the big one for me) is a bit easier to level. Dex builds, imo, are far harder to level, pre-epics, than Str builds.

The end result of the build your talking about is a bit better at what it does best: SA explode things, but this one is more well rounded.

[Lorkas]

It's true that it will get 2 extra fighter bonus feats, but it looks to me like both builds could be identical at level 20, so I don't quite understand the easier-to-level pre-epic point, and I also don't see how you will pull extra saves out of those 3 extra fighter levels. The 2 fighter bonus feats you get can't be used on saves feats, and since the two builds could be identical at level 20, the class levels don't matter for saves.

Plus, 19 rogue gives a rogue bonus feat, so you would be trading 2 fighter feats for 1 rogue feat (which can be used for Epic Dodge or for Improved Sneak Attack to broaden the sneak attack gap even more).

Here are the pros of each as I see them:
3 extra fighter levels - 2 extra fighter bonus feats in epic, 12 extra HP
3 extra rogue levels - 1 extra rogue bonus feat in epic, 2d6 extra sneak attack damage, 18 extra skill points

[grip]

To me having an extra epic feat to get Epic Prowess and ESF: Discipline instead of having to choose between them outweighs the benefits of more rogue levels. That being said, both builds are good at what they do, I can see the reasons to go either way. I just like this one.

[Ozzy.nl]

How would a level spread look like in this build.

[grip]

Pre-Epic would be:
01: Rogue(1)
02: Rogue(2)
03: Rogue(3)
04: Monk(1)
05: Monk(2)
06: Monk(3)
07: Rogue(4)
08: Fighter(1)
09: Fighter(2)
10: Fighter(3)
11: Fighter(4)
12: Rogue(5)
13: Rogue(6)
14: Rogue(7)
15: Rogue(8)
16: Rogue(9)
17: Rogue(10)
18: Rogue(11)
19: Rogue(12)
20: Monk(4)

Epics would be:
21: Monk(5)
22: Fighter(5)
23: Fighter(6)
24: Rogue(13)
25: Rogue(14)
26: Rogue(15)
27: Rogue(16)
28: Fighter(7)
29: Fighter(8)
30: Monk(6)

Or:
21: Rogue(13)
22: Rogue(14)
23: Rogue(15)
24: Fighter(5)
25: Rogue(16)
26: Rogue(17)
27: Monk(5)
28: Rogue(18)
29: Rogue(19)
30: Monk(6)

[Ozzy.nl]

Monk 6 is rather late and you get no benefit from the free kd and ikd.

And I was hoping that monk would be the base class.

How would a full build with feat and skills look like.
How would the an and as and sausage stuff be?

[grip]

Monk 6 is rather late and you get no benefit from the free kd and ikd.

That is the nature of getting the most from a build. When I played a similar character I took KD pre-epic and held my breath till 30th. It all depends on what you can handle as a player, how fast you level, such, and so forth.

And you get free KD and IKD as a benefit of free KD and IKD if you have the patience to wait on it.

And I was hoping that monk would be the base class.

Meaning you start as a monk?

How would a full build with feat and skills look like.

I don't have time right now, but I will PM you a build when I do. (I don't like posting them on the forums, it invites monday morning quarterbacking that I'm not interested in.)

How would the an and as and sausage stuff be?

What?

[Ozzy.nl]

Monk 6 is rather late and you get no benefit from the free kd and ikd.

That is the nature of getting the most from a build. When I played a similar character I took KD pre-epic and held my breath till 30th. It all depends on what you can handle as a player, how fast you level, such, and so forth.

And I was hoping that monk would be the base class.

Meaning you start as a monk?

How would a full build with feat and skills look like.

I don't have time right now, but I will PM you a build when I do. (I don't like posting them on the forums, it invites monday morning quarterbacking that I'm not interested in.)

How would the an and as and sausage stuff be?

What?

LOL sorry auto-correct from my phone.
And yes monk as starting class.
And I am not the fastest leveler.
But the concept I am making will be more neutral and can go along with many other people.

[msterswrdsmn]

If you can, i'd recommend getting imp disarm. A staff is a large weapon, and you get something like a +8 and +12 ab bonus against small and tiny weapons respectively before penalties. Combined with firing off 8-10 attempts per round...yeah. Thats gonna wreck certain people.

[grip]

That is a really good point. It almost makes up for not being able to use FoB or being able just use one kama for +2 to AB.

[msterswrdsmn]

It does. Even if your opponents discipline is so high its impossible to disarm them on a non-20 roll, the attack bonus still applies. This means that you can fight with even improved expertise up and have a way to comphensate somewhat for the -10 attack penalty it brings (-12 technically for dual wielding as well).

Rp-wise, this makes sense. If you're bringing a knife to a sword fight (or worse) you're usually going to be in for a bad time. Nevermind something like a spear or staff in the hands of a skilled fighter. That would give someone with a more appropriate weapon (longsword or axe) trouble due to the reach difference.

[Baron Saturday]

Personally I would take those 4 pre-epic fighter levels sooner (possibly even first), though that probably screws up some feat progression. That said, early on, you are gonna be hurting for AB if you prioritize rogue/monk. Whereas if you take fighter first, you can compensate for some early weakness by wearing armor until you get monk levels.
Random, completely unconsidered thought: Instead of rogue, why not flavored soul? You could do 14 soul/6 monk/10 fighter. Self-buffing with imp.invis., ethereal visage, and haste, oh my! Go with one of the trickery-domain deities. Although stat spread would be a bit of a nightmare! And of course you'd have to start with flavored soul.

[grip]

Aside from Crippling Strike, Epic Dodge, and Uncanny Dodge, Rogue gives Sneak Attack. A Dex based character with no way to do damage is about as useless as toe hair.

[Ozzy.nl]

Favorite soul could be possible.
But the concept is in small is a blind elven who uses sound feeling and other senses in battle.
For this to work a ninja or monk like concept would work better.

Anyone one who has seen the movie American ninja has seen the scene where one guy fights the otherbwith a bucket over his head.
Try and envision that for the fight style.

[Lorkas]

Random, completely unconsidered thought: Instead of rogue, why not flavored soul?

It could work but it totally depends on which flavor.

[Ozzy.nl]

So does anyone still have a build for me or do I need to provide more RP background.
If so let me know you're intrested and I'll PM the background Information that can be usefull for this build.

[grip]

I can do it up for you. Shoot me a PM. Likely be later tonight before I can get it to ya though.

[Durvayas]

Don't forget to find yourself a mage and contract them to make you scrolls of blackstaff. Your UMD would let you use the scroll and a +4 enhancement quarterstaff with dispel(lvl10) on it is nothing to shake a stick at(utterly unrepentant of my puns).

[Ozzy.nl]

That's a very good tip, I didn't even think about that one.

Thanks

[Jagel]

Supposedly blackstaff works on enchanted staffs too.

[Nitro]

If you dip 16+ levels into monk your staff offhand damage will be 1d20 like your unarmed damage. Combining that with the standard Kama monk dex build works pretty well for loads of attacks with decent damage.

Alternatively, if you have a friend who doesn't mind -guard babysitting you, going Pufferfish to the wall pure STR quarterstaff monk is hilarious for the damage output you get. Four levels of fighter for WF and EWF included for extra hard smacking.