Horror & Arelith

[Cortex]

Can horror exist in Arelith as it does in other platforms?

When I say horror, I refer to horror that affects us to an OOC level, making us anxious and/or scared, which varies from person to person. So, here are a few things I'm taking note of:

-Ambiance: Music(NWN does not fits, so it's up to the player to have his own), lighting, world layout, etc.

-Plot: Usually, the scariest scenarios are when the player/reader/whatever when there is a healthy balance between what is known and what is unknown(know enough that it's bad mojo, but not enough to be afraid of the unknown). The plot does not necessarily needs to be "good" to produce a good scary scenario, but the ones with good stories are the ones who leave the best marks afterwards, leaving people thinking. I feel that's all do-able in Arelith.

-Scary Monsters: Demons, undead, and stuff are all meant to be terrifying from the character's perspective, but OOCly, we do not feel scared, and many of them are little more than blobs of XP that eventually are so weak that aren't worth a glance. Is it actually possible to even create a monster that produces a scare factor to the player in the Arelith enviromnent? (On a personal note, the monster I find the most frightening lore wise is the bodak, a deformed humanoid with near pitch black skin, a ghastly face and a gaze that can kill, I feel it has the most potential to produce said scare factor).

-Player to player horror: I find it impossible to become anxious or horrified by another player's RP, as much as they try to create the terror scenario and ICly are actually pretty damn scary. OOCly, I know what they're capable of, I know what to expect, and I know that that their character(mechanically) is probably nothing more dangerous than a weapon master.

-Isolation: Arelith is a RP enviromnent, so not being alone is encouraged, but not being isolated diminishes scare factors significantly, as does with any other game that could possibly host a horror scenario.

-NWN horror experiences: There are single player horror campaigns that I've tried in the past, that while there was nothing that made me jump in fright, had some rather unsettling parts, but they were all heavily scripted, planned and involved haks, but plenty of this uneasiness I got was due to how the story was written and presented. Re-creating them in Arelith is already impossible due to the lack of haks(not that I'm actually advocating for them), but I wonder if the uneasiness can be made.

-PG13, I don't know how PG 13 actually works, but from my crap knowledge of it I have the following to say: Gore, torture and all that stuff don't create horror, but there is plenty of psychological horror that involves things that are likely to not fit into a PG13 setting. Themes like heavy depression, certain types of insanity and syndromes are common things in horror scenarios, but either edge the PG13 or do not fit in at all.

-Arelith World: Arelith is not horror themed, as much as there may be locations and history of places that very well fit into the "horror" world(Minmir, the entire Underdark, Ranstead(FL example), etc). We go to these places with an adventure mind set, regardless. Is it possible to send a sense of fear to players, by DMs, other players or developers? Do the DMs/devs/players even want to? When I think about Arelith as a world, it is actually a really dark place, but I don't ... feel it, it still strikes me as a frontier island with a bright fantasy settings(which is also not untrue to an extent).

-Helplessness: Fear often comes from being unable to fight back, but in Arelith, 99% of the time we're able to fight back because our characters are paragons of war, magic and destruction, and there is nothing actually wrong with that. Presenting a situation where the character is unable to do something will often lead to bad feelings between the party presenting the situation and the target, because not everyone will appreciate a situation where their character can't be a badass.

-Immersion: Most of the players can only feel horror if they try and get immersed, it is difficult for a player to feel anxious or scared if they're taking it all in light-hearted fashion, playing Nicki Minaj's song in background or talking with friends on skype. This falls down solely to the player in question.

Finally, I present an example that could exist in Arelith, by no means I am suggesting this(don't even know how much of it is possible anyway), I only want to hear feedback of how it would feel like:

Change the heart of Shadow Woods to be near pitch black regardless of day/night cycle, impossible to see without a torch or a light source. Going inside without a light source could cause the character to fade away into a dark inhabitant's pocket plane of darkness*, maze like, the creature is impossible to kill in its pocket plane, and will stalk and try to kill you while you try to escape from its completely dark realm, with occasional scripted/events lines such as "*Your vision fades away...*", followed by a cinematic close up of the monster that stalks you, staring at you eerilie before taking you back to where you were.

*Inspiration(don't click if scared by macabre images): http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-106

Edit, extra note, visuals: NWN visuals and graphics are significantly limited, scary images and views are very hard to create and leaves a lot to be desired. I mean, if you could see THIS or THIS, it'd be pretty damn unsettling. (again don't click if frightened by macabre images)

[Cihparg]

Ever tested Ambient: Evil Dungeon Small in a Environmental: Long, Wooden Passage, with no music?

[msterswrdsmn]

Its possible, but a little more difficult. Things that affect how well something like a horror situation would work on Arelith depend on immersion, ambience, and presentation. Which is kinda hard to do with an older third-person top-down camera game. You'll probably pull it off moreso as creepy rather than outright horrifying to most people.

Again, since the graphics are older, presentation and "setting the stage" so to speak is going to be the most important thing you can do. Make use of the fog tool. Set the appropriate music. It doesn't have to be loud and out there; something quiet-yet-unsettling for the music to create a sense of anticipation can work.

So on. Limiting how well/much a player can percieve is important, but at the same time, they have to be aware that something is out there and this isn't "blindly running through night time fog simulator V. 2.1!"

Gradually easing someone into the situation than suddenly thrusting someone in a situation helps keep immersion up and slowly drawing the player in.

So on. Its been -ages- since i've done any of amatuer game design, so I doubt I have/can make any good examples. Sorry.

[Lorkas]

Scared little girl?

[Cortex]

Scared little girl?

Probably the scariest thing there is in the server. But on an OOC level personally, I find them to be more of a near overpowered nuisance than something terrifying. It's, at best, creepy.

Plus, they remind me of Babette.

[Yma23]

I think almost all horror, at the end of the day, comes down to one major factor.

Helplessness.

Being alone. Facing something unknown (and thus being helpless against it). Or knowing something just well enough to know something dreadful will happen, but not knowing enough to stop it. Being alone, and thus without the power aid brings. Being without light, and thus being without knowledge or defence. Facing unimaginably powerful beasts, but being unable to defeat them. Et cetera, Et cetera.

The 'stakes' are also important too. Now in a computer game what's at risk is a bit of XP - hence the immersion part comes in. The player has to feel immersed enough in the game to believe that the stakes are higher than loosing a little xp. I have found that my feeling of 'fear' (if not horror) Often comes when I'm playing a server where the penalties are much higher than arelith (City of Arabel, for example) upon death. Or, as in the case of Arelith, when I am down to very few Mark Of Destiny. But even then what I feel isn't exactly 'horror'.

Can horror, 'True' Horror be done on Arelith? Perhaps. In very select situations. But I don't think it will ever be common or easily attained, and will mostly probably only occur to those who particuarly go out ooc and -want- it.

Why?

Because it involves putting themselves in a situation where their character is helplessness, which is counter to much of what the server is about.

Arleith is - Very roughly speaking mark you, a high fantasy server. High fantasy is very much about empowerment, one way or another, which is just about the opposite of Horror.

You can possibly make situations where te environment is very de-empowering (e.g. A pitch Dark forest like you suggested, filled with terrifying and creepy monsters, like Scared Little Girls) but true immersion will be hard to grasp as after all, the player is, oocly, choosing to enter such a place. And after the third or second 'go around' they'll get to know the tricks, or how to avoid it, or so on.

So a random situaiton? That's covered in DM quests. But the problems with horror in DM quests is once more you really need to get lucky with whom you get. Because sure, if a DM ports someone into a pitch black area with a Invulnerable Bodak that keeps popping up everywhere and gently strokig their arm, or W.E. creepy... sure some will run with it, but others will immedatly start screaming 'Waaahhhh! I'm a level 30 Dragonshaper Monk! I should totes be able to murderate this thing in five seconds flat why am I not u suck DM u suck so hard u r awful this quest sucks!'

So yeah, it's possible bit I think it is extremely, extremely difficult to do on this platform.

[Dalenger]

Unfortunately, I doubt what you are describing is possible without haks.

However, I would imagine it would go something like you'd find in Don't Starve. The PCs enter a realm (perhaps some sort of plane of darkness, if that exists in FR lore). All PCs have to make a decently high (depending how deep into the plane you are) DC save vs blindness upon entry, and for every few turns thereafter (so even if you do remove the blindness, it'll probably come back pretty soon). There are special torches made available near the entry to the plane which give the PCs TS, but which only last a certain amount of time before they burn out. Whenever the PCs move, there is a (small) chance monsters appear, similar to what is found in other places on the server. To counteract the risk of entering the plane, there will be plenty of loot and resources stashed around, as well as perhaps some adamantine and artifacts deeper in.

But that's just how I would imagine producing some sort of horror themed place on the map. It'd require quite a bit of work, though I suppose that's the devs' problem.

[Xarge VI]

I don't know about DM side of things but you can create a pretty scary situation by using stealth and other tools available depending on your class. Like summons, causing damage to the target/or monsters the target is fighting.

[DM Nosferatu]

From the old forums: http://arelith.com/node/4507

It was always my maxim when doing anything intended to scare characters, that you should first and foremost attempt to scare - or at least creep out - players. Otherwise, the fear will be artificial, and difficult to convey naturally.

My toolkit for this was sound, primarily, then epistolary writings (the reason the "found-footage" horror genre works; letters, diary entries, books, clippings, clues - enough to tell you that there's bad stuff going down, and nothing comforting), and THEN anything involving mechanical combat.

DM Echo's Thin Man plot, and my own plot with The Regent (many many years ago, on both fronts) got good feedback pretty much entirely because it wasn't a two hour dungeon crawling spice-up, it was a long-term creep-people-the-hell-out story. This includes spawning an unnamed, undescribed monster with a mildly unsettling appearance (bodak, curst warrior) and having it appear for 0.01 of a second behind someone, or walk out of "shot", or what have you. 90% of the time it isn't even noticed. As a DM running this, you live for that 10%.

tl;dr: Get a reaction out of players and the rest will come naturally.

[Twily]

As a player who's characters usually range between level 6 and 12, I can say this happens to me all the time because I still try to get involved in high level plots. My most recent characters have been very stealthy, so I find myself sneaking through places like the underdark, baator and more on my own, while trying to locate various evil people or hidden information. Having 25 AC and 70HP while hiding in a drow players home(while they're in there) on your own is very anxiety inducing. If any NPC or PC spots you, your characters fate is completely out of your hands.

[Tathkar Eisgrim]

Thanks for the link DM Nosferatu. That was a fun read.

I would love there to be a touch, a hint, of the Ravenloft about Arelith. It was in my mind when I made one of my recent suggestions.

More mist. More mystery. That *slows* the pace down at times.

Ravenloft meets Evil Dead (a hint of dark humour).

[Marsi]

I'd like to see night-time travel become more dangerous, to the point where even mid-level characters may think twice about heading out when its dark. Huddling round campfires. Seeking refuge in roadway inns. I think this'd fit nicely into the recent push to make travel generally more dangerous.

[Durvayas]

There are only three times I've ever been worried/anxious while playing arelith.

The first of which was going through an epic dungeon with a party and we ran out of kits halfway through and for whatever reason could not rest. Every healing spell the cleric had became incredibly valuable and a thing not to waste, and not dying was imperative.

The second of which was on the FL server. I was running a drow ranger, and I could neither rest nor find water in the sibiyad desert. I spent upwards of a half hour slowly dying of thirst and the helplessness of it was overwhelming because the maps kept scrambling. I could not get out.

The third of which is anytime someone summons a balor. Those don't screw around, and have a habit of summoning succubi.

[Ramen]

so I find myself sneaking through places like the underdark, baator and more on my own, while trying to locate various evil people or hidden information.

Agreed. The only way I've discovered to truly scare the hell out of myself on Arelith is espionage.

"Did that character just stop dead because the player started fiddling with his inventory, or did he just break my stealth, and is now typing the monologue of my doom".

The two times that's happened, my blood ran colder than it ever has playing silent hill or the like.

[Lorkas]

Yea that's true. My biggest moment of horror might have been sneak-following a cleric into the temple of Mask and touching a door that I thought would simply transition me, but instead played the door opening sound (with no animation).

The cleric instantly cast TS and thus began a game of hide-in-stealth-and-seek-with-TS. At one point the cleric would have spotted me if they took one more step, I think.

[Ramen]

The cleric instantly cast TS and thus began a game of hide-in-stealth-and-seek-with-TS. At one point the cleric would have spotted me if they took one more step, I think.

Is there another counter to TS when in stealth besides breaking LoS? It always seemed that TS was the f$%@ you I win button. On a related note when are Clerics getting nerfed?

[Lorkas]

There is not, which is why it was so intense for me. I had to quickly find ways to break LoS in an area that I was entirely unfamiliar with (and it was the cleric's guild headquarters, so she knew it quite well).