Pale Master

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ThePromise
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Pale Master

Post by ThePromise » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:07 pm

Hi there,

I read somewhere that Palemasters gain caster levels as well on Arelith, but the wiki does not mention this? Do they gain CL or only spell slots for a wizard? Any other changes on Arelith?

Thanks,
TP

CragOneEye
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Re: Pale Master

Post by CragOneEye » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:26 pm

Spell slots is nwn vanilla, with the arelith modifaction it now adds cl for every two levels of pm. With exception of undead summons.
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Iceborn
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Iceborn » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:00 pm

What's the exception to undead summons?
And this I ask to note down.
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Naiphe
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Naiphe » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:24 pm

What does it mean by adds a CL?

Class level? As in a level 30 palemaster can cast level 7 spells?
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Iceborn
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Iceborn » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:27 pm

Caster Level.
It's more about the effectiveness of the spells, duration, spell resistance and dispelling.
Palemasters gain something like 1 level of their arcane class each uneven level.
So, I think, basically having 7 levels of palemaster equals 4 levels of wizard, and thus access to two spell circles. Palemasters, however, don't learn new spells by themselves at all, in contrast to any other casting class.

Ergo, if you are something like a wizard 8 (spell circle 4) and palemaster 7 (spell circle 2, in the wizard case) you can cast spells up to level 6.
Let's say that you want to use a spell that lasts turns/level. That is minutes/level.
In the case of a wizard 15, that would be 15 minutes.
But a Wizard 8/Pm 7, in Arelith, the spell would last 11 minutes. I think.

- Also, you could only be a palemaster 30 in a level 40 environment. It's a PrC after all.
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Re: Pale Master

Post by CragOneEye » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:40 pm

Iceborn wrote:What's the exception to undead summons?
And this I ask to note down.
Undead summons follows the undead summoner chart which adds your entire combine total of pm/wizard /cleric levels all together as I understand it.
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Iceborn
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Iceborn » Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:11 am

Right.
I found this in the wiki:

"Necromancy changes:

Casters can have up to one minion per Spell Focus in Necromancy (min 1). The first is summoned as a usual creature (i.e. in the summon slot). The second and third, if applicable, take up henchman slots. Each distinct spell can only summon one minion (so casting animate dead twice won't net you a second minion, even with GSF). There are three streams of undead (zombie, ghoul and wraith). Zombie is the default. PCs can do rituals to change stream.
There are 4 tiers of creature. Tier 2 kicks in at level 11, Tier 3 at 16, and Tier 4 when you have the Mummy Dust spell. Your effective level is the sum of your Cleric, Wizard, Sorc and PM levels. (Bard is not currently included, but may be added in future).
The creatures are: Zombie stream: Zombie, Skeleton, Mummy, Mummy Lord Ghoul stream: Ghoul, Ghast, Wight, Vampire Wraith stream (coming soon but not yet available): Specter, Wraith, Banshee, Lich"

Beside some cleaning that I have to do, it left me wondering over a few tiny things.
Is the wraith-stream implemented now?
Do bards count toward necromancer now?
What sort of ritual? (Using the ritual circles?)
The necromantic changes work for all classes involved, with or without PM levels, right?
Also, you get your second undead at Greater Necromanceries focus, or just at the standard focus?
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Hunter548
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Hunter548 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:23 am

No, No, FOIG (It's in certain places and fairly obvious), Yes, At GSF.
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Iceborn
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Iceborn » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:24 am

Oh, shush you.
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rlor
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Re: Pale Master

Post by rlor » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:53 am

I think the wraith stream is IG, but PCs cannot access it (or at least not through the same method as the other streams). There is a way to indirectly access the summoned spectre (just like you can indirectly access the tier 1 of the other streams).

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Sentinelwex
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Sentinelwex » Sun May 22, 2016 7:36 pm

When you gain a new level and you level in PM, should you have new spell slots?

According to NWN Wiki:
Upon reaching pale master levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in his highest caster class (bard, sorcerer or wizard)

I am a lvl 3 PM now but my spells/day limit never changed.

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one day remains
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Re: Pale Master

Post by one day remains » Mon May 23, 2016 4:30 pm

Yes you gain spell slots at 1/2 the rate of a wizard.

You don't learn spells however so you'll need a surplus of scrolls to learn.
Sorc's gain new spells per day I believe but you don't learn any spells.
As far as I remember pm doesn't work too well with innate casters.

PM gains caster level once every two levels, however mith changed this so for necro spells PM levels count in full.

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Sentinelwex
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Sentinelwex » Mon May 23, 2016 5:01 pm

one day remains wrote:Yes you gain spell slots at 1/2 the rate of a wizard.
Hi. This is exactly what I thought, but I haven't got any new slots since I was 20... help! :)

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Lorkas
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Lorkas » Mon May 23, 2016 5:40 pm

No spellcasters gain spell slots above level 20, if you are talking about caster level 20.

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Sentinelwex
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Sentinelwex » Mon May 23, 2016 6:04 pm

Lorkas wrote:No spellcasters gain spell slots above level 20, if you are talking about caster level 20.
Ahh I see. Thats something I didn't know. :) Thanks!

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Recite the Sins
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Recite the Sins » Mon May 23, 2016 7:12 pm

Wraith summons aren't in.
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Convention of Blades
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Convention of Blades » Mon May 23, 2016 8:11 pm

Recite the Sins wrote:Wraith summons aren't in.
And they won't be in anytime soon since the summon updates are frozen, I believe.
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frightnight
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Re: Pale Master

Post by frightnight » Tue May 24, 2016 6:13 am

I know its lame to ask but...


does PM level count toward familiar strength as well

>.>
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rlor
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Re: Pale Master

Post by rlor » Tue May 24, 2016 7:23 am

Recite the Sins wrote:Wraith summons aren't in.
I assume that was to my post. Certain NPCs will summon an undead off one of the 3 streams (for some it seems to random between the 3 of the same tier), including the wraith one. You can dominate/command those NPCs and thus control their pet.

So there seems to be some amount of implementation of them, just not PC accessible (or at least not the same method as the vampire stream).

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Lorkas
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Lorkas » Tue May 24, 2016 12:17 pm

frightnight wrote:I know its lame to ask but...


does PM level count toward familiar strength as well

>.>
Nope

MowerQueen
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Re: Pale Master

Post by MowerQueen » Sat May 28, 2016 7:52 pm

Are bard/PMs at all viable? And if so doesn't that mean you could pull off a warlock/PM?

Nitro
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Re: Pale Master

Post by Nitro » Sat May 28, 2016 11:20 pm

Bard PM's are perfectly viable, but more as supertanks with baller AC than as spellcasters. And while a warlock PM could theoretically work, I doubt it would be that strong, considering that you'd have to give up on a fairly significant amount of warlock levels to get a return from your PM levels, which means weaker blasts and summons for higher AC and fairly poor undead minions.

Swanky bone arm is always a big bonus though, that thing is stylin'.

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one day remains
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Re: Pale Master

Post by one day remains » Sun May 29, 2016 7:13 pm

With 20 warlock level you do pretty decent damage (40-50 damage x2 a round).

Honestly I'd imagine bard PM's do pretty well overall, being crit/sneak immune and having like 14 DR would be incredibly useful. Fairly sure you can get close to 60 AC with a build like that too, so that'd be nifty.

The plain ol' normal balor handles half of the content on the isle anyways.

ThePromise
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Re: Pale Master

Post by ThePromise » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:42 pm

I have one more Arelith specific (probably silly) question on Palemasters:

If a level 20 character with 10 sorcerer and 10 pm levels picks sorcerer at level up, will he or she get all the spell selection of a lvl 16 sorcerer or a lvl 11 sorcerer? In other words can he or she pick lvl 8 spells or only lvl 5 spells?

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Re: Pale Master

Post by triaddraykin » Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:26 am

Iceborn wrote: What sort of ritual? (Using the ritual circles?)
Hunter548 wrote:No, No, FOIG (It's in certain places and fairly obvious), Yes, At GSF.
I just wanted to point out that my Archmage has had quite a few people come to her over the (IG) years asking about this ritual, and none have ever found the answer. The one person we know of that HAS that ritual known by the vampire companions they tote around is typically unwilling to share this knowledge.
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