This makes no sense (Attack rolls, hits and AC)

High Primate · Post by **High Primate** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:13 am

After reviewing combat logs, I notice enemies have been scoring hits on my character even while they are landing attack rolls that fall well below his AC, with or without expertise. These are ordinary attack rolls, not ranged touch attacks. Is there an explanation for why this happens, and is it supposed to?

The character's AC (at the time) was 52, and bad guys were scoring hits on him with attack scores of 41, for example. Even flat-footed, I don't think that should have hit him.

Full Moon · Post by **Full Moon** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:19 am

Were they rolling 20s ? 20 always hits.

High Primate · Post by **High Primate** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:19 am

Nope.

High Primate · Post by **High Primate** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:23 am

CragOneEye · Post by **CragOneEye** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:34 am

Ie counts as dodge ac, so you lose it along with your dex bonus, when flat footed.

Seven Sons of Sin · Post by **Seven Sons of Sin** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:38 am

What's your AC breakdown?

edit: Are flanking bonuses "invisible" for enemies in combat logs?

High Primate · Post by **High Primate** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:50 am

CragOneEye wrote:Ie counts as dodge ac, so you lose it along with your dex bonus, when flat footed.

Woah, really? I had no idea. It said nothing about that on the wiki.

Trunx · Post by **Trunx** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:30 am

Expertise is not dodge AC, and is not lost when flat footed.

Post by **Iceborn** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:42 am

I went and checked (because I don't trust any of you strange people!) and apparently Expertise is not Dodge AC. Why it isn't specified as "other" in the Wiki, I am not sure.

dirza · Post by **dirza** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:11 am

In other topic i mentioned similar weird stuff. Trying to hit character with my ab 35 against warrior just in full plate and helmet (AC 35-37) and i scored one single critical hit in like 20 swings- (my crits are 13-20). Sadly i did not save the log

miesny_jez · Post by **miesny_jez** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:47 am

9 AC difference between what You see on Your character sheet and the "hit" scores of enemies (41) is quite a lot we are talking here 9 points

Assuming You are lvl30 equivalent in terms of possible Dodge AC bonuses and wearing full plate we can have a situation like this in case of flat-footed:

-6 AC from Tumble 30 ranks
-1 AC from DX bonus on Full Plate
-1 Dodge Bonus from Magic Armor
-1 Dodge Bonus from Boot enchant (+1 dodge)

which totals up to: 9 AC which is exactly the difference You see there

I would say You were flat-footed but I can't say why.

Maybe You used a healing kit/wand/potion/scroll/taunt/Bard Songs, or issued a move command?

The Experitse (and IE) AC is not lost when You are flatfooted

Oh and if in doubt.. combat log is always accurate and accounts for all AC/AB modifiers

miesny_jez · Post by **miesny_jez** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:51 am

Wait its 52-41 = 11 AC difference not 9....

hmm.. Are You a DX based char ?

Post by **Aelryn Bloodmoon** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:41 pm

Don't forget that there are circumstances that generate an unseen bonus.

Flanking gets +2 ab (since there are multiple attacks at you per round, this one definitely applies)
vs. Prone gets +4 ab
vs. Stunned gets +2 ab
Invisible/unseen gets +2 ab

Remember folks,

Your character sheet lies. A lot.

(However, the combat log should still report the correct numbers, so in this case I guess this list is only tangentially relevant

)

High Primate · Post by **High Primate** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:35 pm

Not dex based, though I forgot the part about tumble bonuses. That, and assuming there are a bunch of unseen bonuses from flanking, I guess it makes more sense, now. The guy doesn't have Uncanny Dodge (yet). Should be 8 AC my character was missing. Still not sure why that hit, but I guess there were other things in play that I wasn't paying attention to or aware of.

Lorkas · Post by **Lorkas** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:14 pm

Iceborn wrote:I went and checked (because I don't trust any of you strange people!) and apparently Expertise is not Dodge AC. Why it isn't specified as "other" in the Wiki, I am not sure.

It is specified as "Other AC" on the Armor Class article on NWN wiki

High Primate · Post by **High Primate** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:41 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not dodge. (And by "pretty" I mean a figure arbitrarily close to 100%.)

DStoneyD · Post by **DStoneyD** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:51 pm

Flanking bonus i know for sure shows up in the combat log already added to their ab (seen it while fighting 2 identical monsters at the same time one had 2 more ab then the other) ... not sure about the other bonuses though...

CragOneEye · Post by **CragOneEye** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:26 pm

I was told by someone you only get your IE ac from one attacker not all in combat :/

Seven Sons of Sin · Post by **Seven Sons of Sin** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:36 pm

This is why Uncanny Dodge is so important. Even for bardadins who can blast through +20 dodge cap.

Scurvy Cur · Post by **Scurvy Cur** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:58 pm

CragOneEye wrote:I was told by someone you only get your IE ac from one attacker not all in combat :/

That someone was flat wrong.

High Primate wrote:Not dex based, though I forgot the part about tumble bonuses. That, and assuming there are a bunch of unseen bonuses from flanking, I guess it makes more sense, now. The guy doesn't have Uncanny Dodge (yet). Should be 8 AC my character was missing. Still not sure why that hit, but I guess there were other things in play that I wasn't paying attention to or aware of.

Uncanny dodge will help a little, but not really a ton, as it will only preserve your dex bonus. You'll still lose tumble and dodge AC when flat footed.

My guess, however, is that you were indeed flat footed, it's the biggest reason to be out a bunch of AC, and even on non-dex characters or ones with uncanny dodge is always harmful to AC. A surprising amount of AC is lost when flat footed even for strength characters, who pick up 6 tumble, and 6 or so dodge AC between boot enchantment, Mage armor, and haste.

Arelith

Arelith

This makes no sense (Attack rolls, hits and AC)

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