Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

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Exordius
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Exordius » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:12 am

The tower could use some serious boosts to its security, especially with invis/stealth toons being able to sneak in and out whenever they damn well please for as long as they damn well please. I would suggest making the entire tower apply a true-seeing effect thus rendering such impossible. After all its a mage school and guild... there is no logical reason why they would not do such when mages are so weak against stealthers and have the resources to do so.

Also making it so the front gate can be locked would help immensely during attacks. And definitely need more and better npc guards, the one's there now die to just about everything.

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Party in the forest at midnight
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:44 am

The Tower actually has an invisible debuff to stealth, like a lot of other places on the server.

Personally I wish the debuff was made visible somehow, so players know when they're in an area that debuffs a skill and it wasn't something you learned either through trial and error, or word of mouth.

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Bunnysmack
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Bunnysmack » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:22 am

I highly disagree with mechanics that artificially spike security so only one side can enjoy RP there and there is no recourse for sneaky RP or infiltrators to come in. Artificially taking away that contest as a blanket mechanic that only protects the status quo group is stifling to RP. Yes, sometimes an antagonist might slip in, but you know what? That creates RP.

Due to true sight, skill dips with detection skills, and at least a few other FOIG methods, there are a lot of ways to pretty effectively uncover stealthers if a caster is intent on doing so. Can also just hang out with more rangers and rogues, the classes that are designed for detection; it's good that more varying people have valid RP skills to bring to the table, it adds to more vibrant RP interaction. I say this as someone that has primarily mained wizards on Arelith, we don't need more boosts vs sneaks, and we don't need more high security things to impose on places that are public areas for interaction.
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Dovesong
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Dovesong » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:12 pm

Bunnysmack wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:22 am
I highly disagree with mechanics that artificially spike security so only one side can enjoy RP there and there is no recourse for sneaky RP or infiltrators to come in. Artificially taking away that contest as a blanket mechanic that only protects the status quo group is stifling to RP. Yes, sometimes an antagonist might slip in, but you know what? That creates RP.

Due to true sight, skill dips with detection skills, and at least a few other FOIG methods, there are a lot of ways to pretty effectively uncover stealthers if a caster is intent on doing so. Can also just hang out with more rangers and rogues, the classes that are designed for detection; it's good that more varying people have valid RP skills to bring to the table, it adds to more vibrant RP interaction. I say this as someone that has primarily mained wizards on Arelith, we don't need more boosts vs sneaks, and we don't need more high security things to impose on places that are public areas for interaction.
+1

-slave
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by -slave » Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:46 pm

Exordius wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:12 am
The tower could use some serious boosts to its security, especially with invis/stealth toons being able to sneak in and out whenever they damn well please for as long as they damn well please. I would suggest making the entire tower apply a true-seeing effect thus rendering such impossible. After all its a mage school and guild... there is no logical reason why they would not do such when mages are so weak against stealthers and have the resources to do so.

Also making it so the front gate can be locked would help immensely during attacks. And definitely need more and better npc guards, the one's there now die to just about everything.
I don't think anywhere on the server should ever be immune to such things, allowing infiltrators or evil individuals to basically be screwed over instantly for simply going in and creating roleplay.

I disagree with Myon's magical ability to stop this from happening in most places and I don't think that it's conducive to creating an enjoyable experience. Imagine being the person who has invested so much just to be able to be sneaky, only to be countered by literally 0 investment from another player.

Also, locking the doors as well is one of those things where you are trying to keep out roleplay, and I could see this being highly abused. Start a fight? Run into the Arcane Tower and lock the door. There also shouldn't be a bunch of NPC guards to take care of things for you. If you want to defend a place, then defend it. Just like... every other place on the server for the most part :/

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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:39 pm

Bunnysmack wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:22 am
I highly disagree with mechanics that artificially spike security so only one side can enjoy RP there and there is no recourse for sneaky RP or infiltrators to come in. Artificially taking away that contest as a blanket mechanic that only protects the status quo group is stifling to RP. Yes, sometimes an antagonist might slip in, but you know what? That creates RP.

Due to true sight, skill dips with detection skills, and at least a few other FOIG methods, there are a lot of ways to pretty effectively uncover stealthers if a caster is intent on doing so. Can also just hang out with more rangers and rogues, the classes that are designed for detection; it's good that more varying people have valid RP skills to bring to the table, it adds to more vibrant RP interaction. I say this as someone that has primarily mained wizards on Arelith, we don't need more boosts vs sneaks, and we don't need more high security things to impose on places that are public areas for interaction.
Add another +1
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Exordius
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Exordius » Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:44 pm

Um just about every settlement has the ability to lock their doors when trouble arises and they almost always do so. If no locks are the way the server wishes to go then locks should be removed from all settlements not just the tower... otherwise it is not fair to the ones who cant do so.

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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by triaddraykin » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:04 pm

"Conflict, That creates RP"

That's true. It creates something to react against, and move, and do things with.

But what about the RP that was going on? What about the hours-long discussion of magey theory and ritual rules, nonsense that's -fun- to do...? That used to happen ALL the time. It was what people came to the Tower for. The common room would be filled with people, some purely there to watch us have fun trying to out-BS each other as players.

Doesn't happen anymore. There's no private, dedicated space anymore, that can only allow people that have been through the screening process of an interview or personal association. While that's not necessarily a bad thing, it does do one thing.

It says that sort of focused, dedicated, creative roleplay, isn't welcome, because it doesn't mesh well with conflict. It invalidates the RP that involves it. That's why people have left in frustration over the years. That's why I said the thread aged well, in sarcasm. The Tower is 90% empty space. Nothing really strange, weird, or magically-focused happens there, not like it was. Something like a multi-hour ritual focused around changing the fate of one character? Endless streams of people walking in, asking what's going on, word gets around, hey, they're doing something important, let's go mess it up.

I'm not saying that's always going to happen, or even just sometimes happen. But it's hard to get a built-up intense, specialized RP going when anyone can waltz right in. Even if nothing happens, there's a certain nervousness about it. It's uncomfortable. But hey, it's not conflict, so it doesn't get the hundreds of staunch supporters.

It's a rare sort of RP that I personally love, and it's rarer with every passing year. Recently DM Titania's done some amazing things to help bring it back, and I appreciate that, more than I can say. I just wish it didn't take that to bring it back.
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Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:13 pm

Exordius wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:44 pm
Um just about every settlement has the ability to lock their doors when trouble arises and they almost always do so. If no locks are the way the server wishes to go then locks should be removed from all settlements not just the tower... otherwise it is not fair to the ones who cant do so.
The Arcane Tower is not a settlement.
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Party in the forest at midnight
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Party in the forest at midnight » Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:59 pm

That is incredibly insulting towards everyone who tries to make RP in the Arcane Tower work, who came after the Conclave. There's still magic RP that happens, and players who work towards that kind of atmosphere. The "conflict" you're describing does not exist. I've never been disrupted when RPing in the Apex. If violence happens, it's in the Foyer. Where there still are people who sit and RP.

It's also discounting that after the Conclave lost control over the entire tower, it went inactive. I tried to tell all of you that you could keep doing everything you used to, I gave a bunch if ideas of things you could do. But instead, everyone quit. So part of this is on you, for not being leaders in RP. You have everything within your power to keep things going. In fact, you had prestige at the time, you were ahead of everyone else in that regard. And you let it slip away, because you didn't put in the effort to keep up the momentum. So please don't insult all of the people working to try and get RP going.

Every time people try to get a mage group going, I try and support them. A lot of them lose momentum, some don't get off the ground. My character focus is on bookish stuff, I can't lead a mage guild too. But I will go out of my way to try and help mage guilds start and thrive. There are some really, really cool things going on right now. Don't discredit these peoples' efforts.

Ironically, there -is- closed door RP still going on too. You just don't know about it, because you're not part of it. Which is probably part of why the system changed. Too much closed door RP prevents people from being able to participate.

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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by Drowboy » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:48 pm

This thread probably should've been locked months ago, before the smarmy necroposting,huh.
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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Suggestion Discussion: The Arcane Tower

Post by The GrumpyCat » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:07 pm

I see plenty of rp happening in the tower all the time. If anything I think the open door policy has improved the tower, rather than detracted.
Um just about every settlement has the ability to lock their doors when trouble arises and they almost always do so. If no locks are the way the server wishes to go then locks should be removed from all settlements not just the tower... otherwise it is not fair to the ones who cant do so.
... huh?

Firstly - The Arcane Tower isn't a settlment
Secondly - I suppose most of the settlments have doors and such somewhere, but none that are lockable, to my knowledge. Not the way quarter doors are any how.
A lot of settlments have quarters within them but... so does the Arcane Tower?
I'm really not sure what you're talking about here. Genuinly baffled.

But what about the RP that was going on?
One of the most important things about arelith, for it's enjoyment, is being tolerant of all sorts of rp styles.

Maybe your idea of good fun is to sit there doing romance rp, doing character drama and deep interactions. - That's fine. There's a place for that.

Maybe you're looking for something more 'second life' ish - with making your own home, emoting growing crps, playing a villager in Cordor - That's fine. There's a place for that.

Maybe you're wanting to do deep political machinations? organizing assassinations and backstabs from afar.

Maybe you want to play the wizard who does studious lectures, wild experiments and mentoring other mage npcs.

Maybe you want to play the mercenary who goes out and kills things

Maybe the adventurer, exploring unknown places and delving into forgotten depths

The Paladin, charging forth and bringing lights fury! The Healer, and therepist, putting salve to wounds and talking through troubles.

The spy, gathering and sharing informtaiton to anyone who's interested!

All these things are possible

BUT!

We need to tolerate (to an extent at least) that other peoples rp styles may clash with our own. And that we do not have a 'right' to have soly our own styl at any one time.

If you w ant to play a farmer? great. But know that sometimes adventurers will charge over your crops.

Wanna play a mercinary? Cool! But understand you cannot ever entirely excape the fact some players will love doing politics.

Wanna play a cunning, lecturing mage? Not a problem. But know that spies and the like also have just as much right to ply their sort of rp in your space too.

Whilst some areas of the module may 'encourage' some styles over others, they do not (tend) to cut out one style entirly. No one has the right to say 'This is my style of rp! NO OTHER STYLE IS ALLOWED!'

So yes, the rp that is going on, the lectures and such - that's important. But so is the spy rp. The instigator rp. The political rp. Ect. That needs to be given room to breathe too. And it's just something that people are going to have to live with.

Thus ends the rant. Bits of this seem to be getting a little bit heated to. I'll leave it open for a bit longer- but locking it isn't out of the question if it gets any more personal.
This too shall pass.

(I now have a DM Discord (I hope) It's DM GrumpyCat#7185 but please keep in mind I'm very busy IRL so I can't promise how quick I'll get back to you.)

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