The Arelithian Economy: You Can't Eat Gold

[msterswrdsmn]

^ In all fairness, most of the artifacts aren't too good, so they're not really doing much except taking up space in shops.

Sidenote; Yes, you make 12k per farming run....BEFORE expenses. This isn't as painful for magic users, but people that regularly get smacked? You're probably looking at a 2-4k loss right off the bat replacing healing items.

I don't see/hear of a lot of people soloing in the more profitable areas, so you're splitting the cost as well. And, as just mentioned, most of the more profitable areas (namely Kohlingen) require a boat.

If theres something killing the economy from what i've seen, its the ridiculous markup on some things. It seems like a lot of players are still pricing things the same way they were when the auto-gold system was in. 35-40k for a single permanent essence? Yeaaah...thats double what it used to cost beforehand. 1.5 million for a helmet? Good luck affording that.

Thing is, theres absolutely nothing that can be done, short of prodding people in-game over this. I don't think its a trend thats going to end any time soon.

[Syrima]

If theres something killing the economy from what i've seen, its the ridiculous markup on some things. It seems like a lot of players are still pricing things the same way they were when the auto-gold system was in. 35-40k for a single permanent essence? Yeaaah...thats double what it used to cost beforehand. 1.5 million for a helmet? Good luck affording that.

Makes me wonder if there should be some sort of merchant guild that could just destroy overpriced stuff by stocking up on cheaper things. Seems like it could bring pretty good RP, though I don't know much about how these things work. Arelith warlmart.

[The Man of the Moon]

If theres something killing the economy from what i've seen, its the ridiculous markup on some things. It seems like a lot of players are still pricing things the same way they were when the auto-gold system was in. 35-40k for a single permanent essence? Yeaaah...thats double what it used to cost beforehand. 1.5 million for a helmet? Good luck affording that.

Makes me wonder if there should be some sort of merchant guild that could just destroy overpriced stuff by stocking up on cheaper things. Seems like it could bring pretty good RP, though I don't know much about how these things work. Arelith warlmart.

Some player characters tried time to time to lift prices towards a decent and reasonable score.

The last noticeable one in Cordor (at least the last I noticed), was Ossian Crofter (RED GANOT) who even placed boards with tips about a fair praxis of balanced/cheap prices. Kudos to that.

But this falls absolutely in the IG world. If the people can't realice that selling at monstruously high prices will likely never sell something (aka adamantine plate for 500,000 gp?), then they will turn their shops into museums to show their goodies that almost no one will buy. (Food for the trade ministers in case they wanted to fix those flesh-to-stone shops).

...

[The Rambling Midget]

The problem isn't just that they want a lot of gold. It's that they want to make enough gold to justify not farming. If you spend an hour crafting things, you had better make more profit from it than you would have, if you had gone out farming. Otherwise, you've wasted your time.

As long as farming remains the most efficient way to amass wealth, PC shop prices will be exorbitant.

[The Man of the Moon]

The problem isn't just that they want a lot of gold. It's that they want to make enough gold to justify not farming. If you spend an hour crafting things, you had better make more profit from it than you would have, if you had gone out farming. Otherwise, you've wasted your time.

As long as farming remains the most efficient way to amass wealth, PC shop prices will be exorbitant.

Well. Is so true that if it wasn't as easy to "farm" gold, then nobody could easily pay the exorbitant prices some place on their goodies and therocially, the prices could drop.

I remember that the prices didn't dropped yet after the last gold update, when we went from the "free for all" to the "only one can loot this gold"... Opposite, I believe the shops sell now expensive if we compared with those prices at the time when gold was easier to get.

And that seems to be pointing in the sense you refer: Those selling want to recover the gold they couldn't get farming now as they got as easily before.

But greedyness is a factor too: I know about character players who sell expensive even when they also farm gold. I know about one who sold expensive even when he/she reached the gold cap (that someone said is set at 20 millions).

But I think this can be solved IG (and should be). There are trade ministers who may regulate how much the shop owners can ask for their goods.

This is also right that makes no sense that many of the creatures had as much gold... and I agree that may be nice that instead, some may drop low/mid reources always that this was sensical (not like water elementals dropping glass bottles with messages inside )

EDIT: There is also another problem...

High level merchants will sell high level crafts.
+
Settlements will prefere their shops owned by High level merchants=more proffit
+
Low/mid merchants are less frecuent to find as they will become also high at some point... and as there are not infinite shops available so eevryone could sell any kind of stuff.

[rat0a]

Many of the prices still the same at the merchant shops just like when there used to be before the loot back to the old system update.

One example is Attunement Potions. Those used to cost 3k before the there was plenty of gold at the server, then the developer changed to the free for all Gold drop and those went to cost 7 to 9k

Even with the system back to what it was those still cost 7K.
Also like someone said above Essences are currently overpriced.

And where the heck are the lowbee's permanent essences?? I don't see those at the shops anymore.

The only thing that I been seeing priced sanely lately is Adamite and that is because many fighters don't need it anymore. Ingots usually went for 50k and chunks for 25k nowdays you can find ingot easy at 25k.

Artifacts are over rated, for every decent one you get like 15 that sucks

[Irongron]

A lot of the motivation for crafting comes not from the amount of gold it generates, but the enjoyment factor of doing it. I suspect many just rely on their friends to supply them with this low level equipment, or simply prefer to use basin powers to create objects.

Then there's the factor of just who is playing new characters now, from my perspective there's less of them. Perhaps because everyone is grinding away to reach that magic 5% roll? I don't really know. Player numbers have been pretty good, but there isn't so many low level characters.

I've long liked the idea of doing more with the economy of Arelith, at least so it makes more sense. When working on the Brogendenstein Update it occurred to me that a gold piece was worth significantly less than a rat-tail. I know personally which I'd take of the two.

Regarding the question of crafted items though, there won't really be demand for them until there are lots of characters looking for that stuff. There's a lot of nice items that characters simply woudn't wear 'Warded Leather Suilt' anyone?

Also, with various class changes there's a lot of characters out there who just don't need 'conventional' gear; a lot of mage classes who don't require extra stat or spell slots, fighters who don't require weapons and armour, totem druids who have little use for items that do not merge with their form, favored souls who don't require healing/raise equipment, and familiars that negate the need for rogue gear.

Then of course there is simple character building. It used to be the case that hardly anyone knew how to plan and build their character to maximize their strengths (I still don't know), now it is largely the norm. When somoene has a clear plan of everything their character will be, they've also likely got a plan as to their equipment. Simply put; they're less likely to experiment, or get excited about, new items.

I'm not saying gold isn't an issue, it is. There are still a lot fantastically wealthy and well-supplied characters out there, and while that's the case 'poor' characters are just as likely to rely on finding a wealthy patron to equip them, as to trade for it.

I think introducing the Land Brokerage system on the surface would do a lot to 'hoover up gold', and well, frankly, I have certain personal doubts about the 5% roll.

In the short term it does encourage people to delete and play new characters, but once they've got a major gift they have a major motivation never to delete again. If a players aim is to reach the top levels as soon as possible, then they're looking for a character that it is built towards rapid advancement, and of course they're less likely to spend hours at a crafting station.

Overall I think any change to the economics of the servers should not be a 'nerf' but an improvement. Something that excites players about the update, and opens up new possibilities, rather than simply restricting them.

Finally to echo the thoughts of those before me on this read; I don't really see this as a major issue. People like to play this game in different ways, and if most are having fun with it I'm fine with that.

[Daedin]

Crazy Idea Time:

Lets go medieval on the whole thing.

Reduce the ammount of shops within settlements greatly. Only ownable by citizens. More expensive than they currently are.

Then, add a spot somewhere central on the island. A market place/fair that is only open for a certain period of each ig month. Add a whole lot of temporary shops to it. It would then be a place traders and crafters of all sorts would gather, seasonaly, to display their wares.


(I am aware not many people would be fond of something like this. And dont expect me to defend the idea with a bunch of overly long posts. This is just a thought, hoping it'll spark more ideas on other people's minds)

[Lorkas]

One example is Attunement Potions. Those used to cost 3k before the there was plenty of gold at the server, then the developer changed to the free for all Gold drop and those went to cost 7 to 9k

This price change actually occurred right when a change to the server gave attunement potions a whole new use. The change in gold occurred first, and hardly affected the price of attunement potions at all, and then when they got a new function, suddenly they shot up to 10k apiece for a few weeks before settling at the 7-9k you mentioned.

[The Rambling Midget]

The initial increase, from ~1k to ~5-7.5k, was actually effected by a merchant/mastermind not long after Attunement Potions were introduced. The "whole new use" affected the price less than the RP of one IC trade conglomerate with a hidden motive.

[Lorkas]

All I can say is that we must have shopped at different places, because I purchased and sold them for 1-3k for the first two years I played here and then saw the price shoot up when the new use was introduced.

Maybe 5k was the highest that I ever saw them before the recent change, which doubled them in price to 10k overnight before settling at a lower price.

[Mr_Rieper]

How about replacing some of the gold found in dungeons with random raw materials, in chests?

Gold becomes more scarce, raw materials become more plentiful. You might argue this'll make settlement requirements easier to fulfill, but right now, most people just sell/donate to settlements anyway. At least if there's more, some of it might actually get circulated among the players.

An effective player economy would have the people gathering raw materials sell them to a crafter, who creates goods, who sells them to a merchant, who sells around Arelith. Right now, there's no incentive to gather raw materials, and therefore no incentive to be a crafter or a merchant (or both). I honestly neglect my carpentry skills on my character because I don't have a home to create furniture for, nor an epic level character that wants my staves, nor a faction that requires more boards and signs. There's no Demand and therefore, I don't need Supply. But if I found myself with materials on hand, I'd probably find an excuse to use it.

As for making cooking more useful? Food revamp. All currently existing traveller's packs and rations are converted into dried or salted ration items, which last indefinitely but only restore a meager amount of hunger when consumed (Anybody remember the Iron Rations item from Icewind Dale?). People with the cooking skill can now create food which restores hunger/thirst quickly, but will expire eventually, like Wolfsbane. Boom, there's now a reason to eat at a Tavern, or ensure a steady supply of raw meat and fish.

[Red Sunset]

Ok, as I have played a few merchant characters now I might as well add my two cents.

I have seen, and my characters sold attunements for 3-4k. Taxes come out of that, and taxes are higher than before too. Costs for brass comes out of that. Cost for mojo comes out of that. I have to figure in the risk of losing the cost of the brass due to the rolling a 1 too. This can happen on both the lesser alchemist catalyst itself, and the attempt at the attunement itself. I have to figure in the cost to keep the shop too, which due to higher taxes is higher. I have to figure in what my time is worth.

I believe I see brass ingots anywhere from 400-800. Usually 600 or 800. Some might say this is inflated, but it is a pain to lug that coal around, and get both zinc and I forget, is it copper? Both of these ores are often in locations far flung from each other. I am sure the ore merchants are finally happy their tedious labour is rewarded.

As for lower end items now, my character as made those but only on special order. Shop space is limited. My time is limited. I sell the stuff in the shop that sells well, that I can easiest resupply, so that the shop remains usually/hopefully stocked with something.

On the lower end items I give the characters the option of gathering the resources themselves for me to use to make the said item, which reduces the cost considerately. If all I have to do is recieve the stuff and use the CP points I may only charge 500-1000 or less depending on how many used. Some take this option, some do not.

Now then -all- these things sell, and sell quite well, so the pain of making them oneself apparently has not reached the cost the merchants are charging.

My latest character over some months has amassed a good deal of wealth over selling attunements at 4 thousand, and selling wands and scrolls and skleens at 375 each. The wands like bulls strength, cats grace, haste, etc, started at 5k and crept to 6.5k, but I figured that was fair due to the charges being at the lowest in the high twenties. The creation cost for bulls strength is nearly 4k itself, and 200 some experience. Tax is ten percent. So the profit was 6.5-600-4000=1900. I guess you have to ask yourself what the tediousness of buying that 240 experience is.

[Dinosaur Space Program]

I dunno, since the 'everyone gets gold, tap those corpses!' was taken out, some things Are normalizing. I remember back in the day (Get my old foggy player perspective out), people Still priced things ridiculously. It was just less accepted because there was generally Less shops. Now people can cheerfully camp on high priced goods in their shops for the most part and not worry about ever having to fill it and if that ONE sap comes along, they are rich.

Prices are coming down. I do a weekly search of the shops for assorted crafting goods (I actually craft a Lot, but it's mostly sucked up by the characters mine knows) and a lot of things have gone from 30k to 20k, 25k to 15k, and there are regularly Good priced wares if you dig around.

Attunement potions are always in demand due to the Astrolab so I don't really see them going down anytime soon because people will Buy them at 6-8k.

Depending on the builds of characters is where demand on things comes in. I actually started to make a list and then decided I would miss too many combinations and demands. Either way, I would say the biggest issue is people sitting on piles of gold from before it was changed back and then run IR/appraise in laps on their epics to add to it if you are worried about people rolling in wealth. I still remember a little lowbie who donated 100k to a faction from appraise laps and had plenty left over.

I've ran five characters since gold was taken out. My current baby epic usually has anywhere from 20k-50k in her account at any given time. My lowbies usually had 1k-5k if they were lucky, and my midbies would sometimes have 10k-20k if they were saving up. As a baby character, if I wanted to make money I would do cotton/wood runs to settlements with decent buying prices since I didn't have the crafting points to sell things in bulk. I don't approve of appraise farming as a way of making money myself so I don't use that method. All it seems to produce is a person walking silently from Haulfest to Fhara twelve or more times in straight lines (I have actually seen this, it was embarrassing).

The current system is rather a 'All your gold goes into supplies until you are pre-epic or epic and can access IR or duegar'. At that point, you start piling the money, which then ideally goes back into better gear and supplies.

Shops are the best way to get money coming in without grinding dungeons if you can get the materials at a lower price to make what you are selling. It is how I have gotten rich on assorted characters, without selling things at crazy prices. All my dungeoneering money always went back into kits, scrolls, and then crafting related things. So I very rarely ever net a positive (though my dungeoneering buddies usually would stack up the coin more). But I have made 600k+ off of owning shops before.

[CragOrion]

so, i agree mostly with msterswdsmn

My casters have it the easiest money wise. they're the only ones that can accumulate money at a reasonable rate. Mages dont need to buy wands or magic items, and clerics dont need to buy wands or healing supplies.

my mundane classes are a completely different story, however. on buster, i'm constantly broke because while he has access to kohlingen, replacing his wands drains him of almost everything he makes. lately, i come out of there with 4-8k, which goes right back into restocking an expensive wand or temp essences. if he didnt have a wife that was a monk, he'd be completely screwed. and this was my same experience on diego, and trynn to a lesser extent just because she never went farming much so didnt use many consumables.

so, why do alot of people have alot of gold lately? because most people are playing the weave masters, cause theyre easy and fun and dont require alot of supplies.

what i think might be the best solution is an overhaul of craftable items. add more armors and weapons to craft that fit the current server environment. add things that are good and realistically attainable for low-mid leveled characters. and last bit not least, add craftable resources that are actually worth your time and money to craft (bricks anyone?)

and an unrelated crafting note while im on the topic...are we ever going to get crafted heads on a pike?

[KregorRanger]

I would echo the other sentiments here regarding crafting things that people actually want. From first hand experience, I can say that more than half the equipment now craftable in the tailoring matrix is crap that no one will buy. Be party because they've been so artificially inflated in cost to give higher DC that by the time you can -wear them (please note I didn't say buy, so reducing selling price below the craft price isn't a fix) you can get better gear out of the basin.

Warded leather suit? Crap that no one buys. Fine leather/studded leather? Crap no one buys because the gold value is pumped so high you can buy loot matrix versions cheaper and wear them sooner. Cloak of caster or natures blessing? Really? 13k and have to be 9th level to wear a cloak with two skill +3 skill boosts? Who is going to buy that? That's just scratching the surface of useless items on the matrix. I can reliably sell about three four off the list in a shop - a set of leathers that takes three stages and a four RL days of crafting time, a padded suit because there's no other way to get +3, and a pair of boots that sells like hot cakes because try can be further enchanted, and another pair of boots that any and all DEXers want. I can also occasionally on commission sell the still uninflated skill boost boots because they can be further enchanted, but if I set them in a shop they will sit there eternally.

Reduce the cost of artificially inflated skill boost items back to toolset value so they can be sold and further enchanted, or just purchased and worn by lowbies, and you're opening up a whole new market for me to craft to supply. Give me some more end game items to craft that can't be gotten short of artifact farming - like giant belts that give +2 STR and some decent discipline boosts, or a +2 int jewelry piece for wizards. Why do DEX CON WIS and CHA builders (3 for CHA) have an option for +2 gear that the others don't? Give me a cloak that merges the sight/stalker cloak with a couple other boosts, like the fine elven boots combine the lower boots. Give me a decent selection of gear that players would actually buy, not a selection of crap. Then I can make mony with a shop again.

[rat0a]

Agree with has been said above about armor

My last two Melee toons went from Bronze enchanted to Adamite before the fighter change.

Why bother crafting and selling Iron and steel armor when I cant take a bronze one and add 1AC and have it fast at level 3 with low risk for 650 coins with the same protection of the steel one minus the slashing immunity?

[Irongron]

It's a very difficult balance to find, for as it stands we have 4 competing methods of equipping a character.

Loot Matrix

This was always kept relatively low powered, for a number of reasons one of which was likely to ensure the recipes stayed useful. Now we have artifacts, which I'm personally very keen on, not that I've yet had a character able to purchase one.

While the loot matrix does spawn some things that can be crafted, it does also provide things one needs for certain recipes. I love this aspect of it, as it compliments crafting. When done properly there's a real thrill in finding some of the rare objects. Though it is less fun after the first time finding a 'Dwarven Incantation' and getting excited about it, only discover its current use in crafting isn't exactly a 'must have' item.

I suspect that many of the crafting matrix ingredients found this way are thrown away at the first opportunity, and that is a shame.

Character Class -

Not really a way to gain equipment as such, but it can be used to limit the necessity for it. As I mentioned before there is an increasing number of classes that have a very narrow range of possible items (Fighters/Cleric requiring bronze weapons/armour etc)

Crafting -

I think this is the most fun, at least for me from a role-play perspective. Interesting items with a description and narrative attached, some of which can go a long way to encourage certain character concepts (When worn) or encourage a lot of role-play (When sought, created, traded).

Some crafted items are essential and sell well, a great many others are near useless. It is worth mentioning fixtures in all of this, as not all things 'made' via crafting are for a PC boost, some are entirely focused on role-play.

Enchantment

We can forget about at least 2 of the other 3, enchanted gear is the way almost everyone goes. A couple of stat bonuses, plus one from a list of thing suitable to an individual PC (spell slots, skill bonus, resistances etc). It is enchantment, and pretty much only enchantment, that makes crafted items less interesting. If one wishes to invigorate the excellent crafting system, one must almost certain reduce the generic but superior items created via enchantment.

There a couple of ways this could be achieved, my top 3 to consider would be...

3. - Reduce the Enchantment Menu (Getting it rid of skill bonuses for instance, would suddenly a make a huge amount of the crafted recipes extremely interesting)

2. - Make all enchantments at the basin temporary (costing a lot less, with failure only resulting a loss of coin and not the destruction of the item)

1. Make more enchantments possible, but also make ANY enchantment only possible on already magical items. This one would be my favorite, as with some adjustments to the success ratio it would be a total boon for both enchantments and crafters, with each system massively encouraging the other. Enchanters would be inundated with interesting requests, while crafters would be constantly able to find a market for almost all of their wares.

[Kuma]

1. Make more enchantments possible, but also make ANY enchantment only possible on already magical items. This one would be my favorite, as with some adjustments to the success ratio it would be a total boon for both enchantments and crafters, with each system massively encouraging the other. Enchanters would be inundated with interesting requests, while crafters would be constantly able to find a market for almost all of their wares.

As always, rather than nerfs, I prefer this as an option. Though FL-elith's crafting system is quite similar to this and would be pretty awesome.

That being said, a lot of this "problem" is that there's Too Much Cash floating around. Lowering the amount of cash one gets in certain dungeons that are also excellent for XP would probably do well to balance this. Note; balance and lower, not destroy and obliterate.

[Dinosaur Space Program]

I actually don't agree with eliminating basin options, as part of the fun of basin equipment is making skills/stat based gear tailored to some end or even Putting these things on crafted gear. This is the biggest request -I- get as an enchanter.

"I have this piece of crafted gear, what would it take to put -insert basin thing- on it?"

A lot of the crafted gear has its superior place. I think opening the crafting matrix and lowering their price tag to put more enchantments on them is the way to go if you wish to revitalize the crafting part of things. Not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and nerfing enchantment options further (though it has been some time since they last got nerfed).

The biggest problem I have had personally when it comes to trade and gear is finding the gear I need on my character most of the time. Sometimes people aren't making what I want to use that is crafted, or they are and its wildly out of my poor character's price range.

Yes, enchantment options do allow for lowbies to get ahead over buying some kinds of crafted gear. But if you are going to say that this isn't allowable anymore, you just gimped out casual gamers who are trying to have decent gear without going through most of the shops on the server and praying they find what they need to jumpstart their new baby. I cannot number the amount of times I made a new character and couldn't find bronze full plate in a player made store or a tower shield.

I also do not favor the 'only on already magical gear' because as it stands, unless you appraise farm or spam resources, your money pool is slim for a lot of your baby character's life and getting some decent gear to see you through your midbie levels will be even harder to do because single and double stats are a must for a lot of characters to be able to survive to get the money to pay for them.

[KregorRanger]

Though it is less fun after the first time finding a 'Dwarven Incantation' and getting excited about it, only discover its current use in crafting isn't exactly a 'must have' item.

Actually the Dwarven Incantation is an ingredient one of the main sellers in my shop - the +3 padded armor. I need two of them per suit. They're not worth that much, because we're talking a 7k suit of armor, but still, they're useful.

It is worth mentioning fixtures in all of this, as not all things 'made' via crafting are for a PC boost, some are entirely focused on role-play.

For fixtures, that's great, but equipment existing in the craft matrix for RP purposes is useless. No one will wear something like a Cloak of Nature's Blessing for RP purposes when at the same level, they could wear a +1 stat/1save/2 skill item enchanted in the basin.

3. - Reduce the Enchantment Menu (Getting it rid of skill bonuses for instance, would suddenly a make a huge amount of the crafted recipes extremely interesting)

You're -not going to drive up perceived value of crap items like the Cloak of Naure's Blessing/Cloak of the Caster/Gloves of Singing by removing the ability to add skills via the basin. All you'll do is nerf skills, because ability stats/saves/etc. trump skill mods.

2. - Make all enchantments at the basin temporary (costing a lot less, with failure only resulting a loss of coin and not the destruction of the item)

Will result in more people trying to farm artifacts and loot matrix items, not rely upon crappy crafted items when the crappy crafted items are still crap.

I'm sorry, a lot of the crafted items are really crap for the level you have to be to wear them thanks to artificial inflation. I don't know how many times I can reiterate, they are crap.

In general, nerfing the existing status quo in order to try and change artificial perceptions of equipment in a no-longer-low-magic server is not a good idea.

1. Make more enchantments possible, but also make ANY enchantment only possible on already magical items. This one would be my favorite, as with some adjustments to the success ratio it would be a total boon for both enchantments and crafters, with each system massively encouraging the other. Enchanters would be inundated with interesting requests, while crafters would be constantly able to find a market for almost all of their wares.

This is the best of the ideas so far, EXCEPT for one minor thing about the current status quo for the enchantment basin:

Players use the basin soon off the boat in order to get their starting equipment as much as high levels do to get their end game equipment. Just outside the gates of Cordor, we have hostiles that have 5/+1 DR. You send newbs without the means to get that +1 attack bonus, then they get killed.

Take away putting mundane items in the basin, and you're forcing newbies (not just lowbies who've played before, but brand newbies) to hunt around just to get starting equipment from crafters.

Bring the artificial inflation in crafted item prices back to where they can be enchanted further — there's really no reason we shouldn't be able to put a Cloak of Nature's Blessing into the basin for another property, or the Cloak of the Sight, or fine studded leather (you can do this to matrix +2 studded just fine), except for the fact that it's so artificially raised in price, you'll never ever have anything but a 5%. Hence, they are worthless, and I will never, ever sell one of them.

[The Rambling Midget]

I've always viewed the +5 and +3/+3 crafted items as intermediate equipment for that period of time when you really need to beef up your skills to make up for low levels, but don't yet have the gold to start enchanting a unified gear set.

My belief is that the reason they aren't crafted nowadays isn't because they're crap, (they were crafted in huge quantities up until a couple of years ago) but because merchants/crafters aren't being supplied with the raw materials. If you have to go out and get the materials yourself, then bring them back and put the points in, that's twice the hassle. However, if you have your adventurer types bringing materials back in order to exchange them for gold - they were out there anyway, so it's not much trouble - then half of the work is already done, and there's really no reason not to convert the materials into something that can turn a profit. That's a self supporting economy. Each piece is doing its part to keep the wheels turning, and effort is kept to a minimum because the work is spread out. Unlimited fountains of gold remove interaction as a necessity, and it all falls apart.

One thing I want to reiterate before I have too many people jumping down my throat is that I don't by any means believe crafting or resource gathering should be necessary to get by. What I do believe is that tooling around and offing the occasional bad guy should bring in enough to put food on the table, and keep the armor oiled and the sword sharp. However, wealth should be reserved for those who are willing to expand their interactions to encompass all aspects of the game world, rather than focusing on the relative frivolities of wandering and clubbing NPCs.

[Syrima]

I've been seeing a few mentions of players being encouraged to solo grind.

I personally solo grind because 2/3rds of the time the person I'm with doesn't RP at all but you still have to split the loot with them, which is annoying because splitting it either barely makes or comes under what I spent on medkits (early levels). This could be my fault though, as I never state "One of us should loot and split it 50/50". Instead it's usually just randomly loot one corpse I'll loot the other, so some are probably missed.

[Yma23]

1. Make more enchantments possible, but also make ANY enchantment only possible on already magical items. This one would be my favorite, as with some adjustments to the success ratio it would be a total boon for both enchantments and crafters, with each system massively encouraging the other. Enchanters would be inundated with interesting requests, while crafters would be constantly able to find a market for almost all of their wares.

I like this option best of the three given also, but with -one- huge caveat.

There should always, (yes even for mundane items) be something akin to a a 'weight reduction' option. Why? So that those people who get normal rings/swords/trinkets/whatever can rename/redescribe things. Making custom items like this is awsome. Let's not loose that, it's one of my very favorite aspects about Arelith.
Heck, if we end up doing a whole revamp of the crafting/enchantment system, my suggestions would be:

1) Add the ability for low level spells to be imbued within certain items. (maybe even negative stats too!) Why? I think it'd be cool. ... that's it really.
2) Add an option like... 'Attune to Self'. What does this do? Stat/skill wise? Nothing. It's just another version of 'Weight Reduction' it allows you to alter an items appearence/description. Give it a farily low cost/chance of failure (but still a cost/chance of failure anyway)
3) I'm sorry TRM - yes, some items arn't made because of the lack of resources. But honestly? There's also a lot that arn't made (llike most of the cloaks) because well... they're awful. Some of the crafting recipes could really do with a re-visit. Up the stats on Cloak of Nature, for example. Give people an incentive to -want- to wear these things.
4) Here's the vauge part - If you want crafting to be used more - we need more consumables. What do I mean? Well right now in smithng, for the most part, if I have a sword I have a sword forever. Yeah, I may need a smith to fix it very occasionaly -but not on a regular basis. Alchemy works so well because it has things like gonne slugs, Attunement Potions and Spell Componsnets. Items all of wihch you need to restock on as you use them. Often regularly. Other crafts needs something like tht too. Though what I'm not entirely sure. Just throwing that out there.


EDIT: TRM - there's something I don't get. Maybe this is just me being silly but... ok follow me here.

Quesiton: Where does the Gold Come from?
Answer: Gold comes from, generaly speaking, the people who fight monsters. That's where the vast majority of it is generated. The only other places I can think of, wihch don't come back to monsters, are Gem Scales and Appraise Farming.
So if you cut the amount of gold generated by monsters, how are the crafters going to get gold themselves? Sorry I realize I'm probbly being really stupid here - but I don't get this. Even Settlment Gold is generated through taxes, which in turn come from pc's who've gained that gold by killing monsters? So cutting down the gold levels... will it really help? Because surely you just push everything down a notch, not neccesarly actualy change the machinery of how things work.

[The Man of the Moon]

EDIT: TRM - there's something I don't get. Maybe this is just me being silly but... ok follow me here.

Quesiton: Where does the Gold Come from?

Answer: Gold comes from, generaly speaking, the people who fight monsters. That's where the vast majority of it is generated. The only other places I can think of, wihch don't come back to monsters, are Gem Scales and Appraise Farming.

So if you cut the amount of gold generated by monsters, how are the crafters going to get gold themselves? Sorry I realize I'm probbly being really stupid here - but I don't get this. Even Settlment Gold is generated through taxes, which in turn come from pc's who've gained that gold by killing monsters? So cutting down the gold levels... will it really help? Because surely you just push everything down a notch, not neccesarly actualy change the machinery of how things work.

You are not silly but keen and right.

The main gold resource in the server are the monsters and the dungeons.

And may be awesome if there were another way to inject gold into the Arelith economy that didn't came from the monsters farming yet.

May be awesome perhaps, if the npc trade of each settlement, generated X gold that may go into those players taking city jobs, tasks and deeds. (Or going to pc patrons who may distribute it into X pcs hired by them to make the said works)

Let's say... the settlement leaders could get X montly amount of gold acquired through some npc mechanical trade-marchet system, that they may use then to hire pc guards, pc workers, pc mercenaries, pc crafters... All those could work for the said city and paid by the city treasure, and then, adding a gold resource coming frmo a diferent place than just the monsters.

Because seems silly that all the economy came from the monsters treasures, as you wisely pointed.