We're all Arelithians

[Subutai]

I've noticed a very troubling trend lately (or maybe it's an old trend that I've only started noticing more) that there seems to be a large amount of Us vs. Them mentality around the server. Between players of different groups and factions, between players and DMs, players and devs. Who knows, maybe even between DMs and devs.

When our ideas and desires conflict with those of others, it can be easy to think of the others as opponents. People who are standing as obstacles to our hopes and dreams. If those opponents weren't there, or didn't do what they did, or would just keep quiet, things could be smooth and great. Why do they have to do those things?

Whichever "they" it is, the answer is almost always the same. Because they, like us, are Arelithians. They, like us, what the server to be the very best that it can be, and fun for the most people. A place where they can play, or work on, or DM on, and know that it's a joy for themselves and for others. When they disagree with us, it can be easy to think of them as being on "the other side", as being part of some other group or some other tribe that wants the opposite of what we want. They're not friends or family that we just disagree with, but enemies that need to be defeated.

Here, on this server, we're all Arelithians first and foremost. We aren't Banites or Cordorians. We aren't players or devs. All those things are secondary to being all together as Arelithians, and we all need each other. Arelith needs opposing factions to bring conflict and struggle. Arelith needs devs to make the beautiful world we play in. It needs DMs to bring epic stories and tribulations, and to help us all get along. And it needs players to fill the world, to bring it to life, and to give meaning to all the hard work the devs and DMs put in. We're all on the same side.

This is something that's easy to say, but hard to internalize. It often requires active effort to keep in mind, and to achieve. It's easier to see issues as Us vs. Them because they're the ones making the issue. But just like in a successful relationship, it isn't Us vs. Them. It's all of us vs. the problems. When there's conflict, we need to be able to sit down and find a solution, not just to win. When there are disagreements, we need to be able to discuss and find our common ground and find a solution, not to be rude, insulting, or accusative to the people who disagree.

We're all in this together, and we all want the best server possible. It's important we remember that, and that we pursue it, because every one of us are Arelithians together.

[No one of consequence]

An excellent post, with which I agree completely. Perhaps a thread could be started on conflict resolution, Arelith style. I think many Arelithians would have quality suggestions for ways to resolve various conflicts within the setting we are all here to enjoy.

[Artenides]

Who knows, maybe even between DMs and devs.

Nope, this is not happening, we are always on the same page! The only exception is Titania, who has a good and a bad list. We have been working tirelessly to be on the good list but only Xerah achieved that so far (but thanks to Silvard we will have more time! ).

I completely agree with your post by the way!

[Sea Shanties]

I consider indifference and elitism as much a problem as "us vs them" conflict. Even the top RPers in the game can be guilty of avoiding or flat-out ignoring characters who are unknown quantities or perceived as not worthy of interacting with. At least having an OOC confrontation means your efforts are being noticed, which I think almost all of us would consider preferable to feeling totally invisible.

And I get it; it can be a drain to talk to everyone but still almost every established clique could stand to make a little more effort to bring in the folks standing on the sidelines. I'm as guilty as anyone, though I'm usually not exactly one of the "cool kids" with my characters I still run past strangers emoting a stock greeting without follow-up as much as anyone and I'm trying to fix that.

[Arienette]

@ Sea Shanties

On the topic of ignoring newer characters.

I hope I am not guilty of this. And I wouldnt consider myself in the top tier of anything. But I have been sorely tempted lately to disregard many new characyers. Because it seems to me that in the last few months, new characters seem to come and go like the wind.

I have been on Arelith for aboit a year. In the first 6 months, characters I met and formed a relationship with tended to stick around, more or less. A large proportion of the characters I interacted with in the first half of my Arelith career are either still around, or died/"left" in an IC way.

On the other hand, the greater proportion of characters I have met in the second half of my time here seem to just sort of dissapear.

I have no idea if this is an example of confirmation bias or a self fulfilling prophecy or what?

[Gideon DeVay]

Very late to the party, but let me say this: join the movement, get off the discord and communicate either 1-on-1 or in game. Discord is an aptly named application, and lends itself to OOC tribalism and negativity.

[Royal Blood]

I used to advocate against discord. But I found that drama I couldn't see ballooned there and then bled in game unbeknown to me. I think it's important to have that medium to communicate with players. There is needed element of OOC even in RP.

It needs to be used responsibly of course. And I think with Discord like all things involved with arleth it works best when you just focus on yourself and being your own personal best player. If other people want to use it and use it negatively that's on them. If anything be a good player yourself and by proxy you become an example to others.

Personally I enjoy using it and being connected to the communities out of character. In addition to that it gave me a platform to address concerns other players may have had and let them get to know me and dispel rumors.

[Fallout]

Like everything in life it always ends up on education and trial and error thing.
I recall when i got here 10 years ago how i wasnt us vs them player but over time i managed to find myself in such circle...luck for me was to find other experiances players who helped me with advices...but mostly as always with the example..

I think discord can be used greatly to this, so i suggest like we do in game events to make discord events with debates over RP and issues like this described in this thread with moderators trainers and guest DM, once per month would be fine if ppl can find time.

Alao people can adress to rpr and seek wisdom of players who have higher and learn how to progress in their own RP.

Debates to end up fun would end with leaving several RP concepts that lack on Arelith or we would all like to see for those involved to try.

Group debate would be locked afterwards and transcript copied and nailed somewhere on forum.

Maybe i went too far but discord events on matter of RP would be profitable I am sure.

[Gideon DeVay]

OOC communication is definitely important, unless you want to play a game of Spot the Tell. Like I said, that's why I feel Discord is best used for 1-on-1 interactions.

No desire to control how people use their own platforms. I don't know if it's the scroll-feed nature of unthreaded communication, or what--but all private arelith discords seem to be about complaining and degrading. Myself included!

I like a fresh take of leaving RP in the collective narrative. As Horace said, "Escaped words cannot return!" --in other words, the artist cannot return art once it is made. I'm not interested in guiding your interpretation of events outside the art form--and if there is need for mitigation, one-on-one should suffice!

Some enjoy the casual and social nature of a lobby-style feed and that make sense. But hear the Good News of the Discord-Droppers, folks! The air is cleaner out here

[Ork]

Great topic. Sad it's devolving into discord & non-discord however.

[Opustus]

Long live nerd race, long live Arelith!

[Xerah]

As one of the moderators of the main discord, we really do work hard to stop what you’re describing here. Discord is a great tool and it can be misused as much as any other too. Be good to your fellow players and have fun.

[DM Axis]

Agreeing with Xerah, naturally, all things can be blades used for ill or for good.

Please remember regardless of in your personal/private discord groups as well that everyone on all sides is a player.
And they have feelings too.

It's understandable to get passionate about a game, hate characters, and so on. But please still ultimately remember that there is still a real person behind each of these wonderfully made and played characters.
Thank you.

[Peppermint]

Yeah, so. Let me be real, folks. I'm going to lay all my cards on the table right here. Are you ready for the big surprise that nobody saw coming?

I'm not happy with the server's direction lately. I think it's poo poo. I've been very forthright about that.

And do I complain to my friends privately about it? Absolutely. I'm human and I need to vent.

But do I feel it's appropriate to crap up public Discords with my frustration? Of course not.

If you see flagrant negativity in Arelith's Discord, report it. We don't want that. If you're seeing negativity in other, smaller Discords -- well, what did you expect, you silly billy? Friends tend to be honest with each other privately, whether that communication be in private messages here, in game, over Skype, or over a small Discord channel. Venting can be healthy.

Discord's not the devil. People are simply human.

[Berried]

The bizarre thing about the anti-communication stance people are taking is that I, personally, always like people more after getting to know them ooc.

If I hit someone up on discord asking "Hey, why did you think X was a good idea?", they'll lay out a list of reasons. Even if I don't agree with them, I can at least understand them. This is a person I can start speaking to and reasoning with on their level, in their language, in a way that might make sense to them.

When I can't communicate with a player I'm left alone with my own assumptions.

If someone sees me do something that seems careless out of context, I'd prefer that they bring it up to me on discord so I can contextualize the behavior, rather than go on thinking that's just the way I am.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Play more, read forums/Discord/whatever less.

I understand the irony of this

but Arelith is more fun if you just play the game

[Marsi]

Hot take, but I think problem players being dealt with ineffectively has always been the true root cause of culture strife on the server.

[Gideon DeVay]

As one of the moderators of the main discord, we really do work hard to stop what you’re describing here. Discord is a great tool and it can be misused as much as any other too. Be good to your fellow players and have fun.

Great point! The "official" discord is well-moderated and it shows.

Ork is perhaps right that I've diluted Subutai's original purpose for the thread, which is a great post and worth discussing--collective storytelling is hard work; be kind to each other!

[Adam Antium]

Personally I've seen instances of rather mediocre administration on the official Discord, I don't even go there frequently. But c'est la vie.

Hot take, interaction with the wider community isn't always healthy, it just becomes another social media platform at that point, and those are awful for you and for your emotional and mental health.

I don't think the expectation or idea that every player should OOC interact with and know every other active player is actually good. I know 100% for a fact that there are certain players whose interactions would bring about nothing but badness.

So I have played on Arelith for a bit over a year (with ~6 months of hiatus in there until recently) and this is my first forum account now. I've been very happy overall. I interact with ALL characters and do not break in-character even if I don't like an opposing character (so much the better actually, provided rules are respected - being around only agreeable characters gets boring fast), but I don't think people should strive to use Arelith as something of another Facebook or Reddit. That is the way of pain.


But maybe y'all think I'm crazy, which is your right

[Irongron]

Personally I've seen instances of rather mediocre administration on the official Discord, I don't even go there frequently. But c'est la vie.

Hot take, interaction with the wider community isn't always healthy, it just becomes another social media platform at that point, and those are awful for you and for your emotional and mental health.

I don't think the expectation or idea that every player should OOC interact with and know every other active player is actually good. I know 100% for a fact that there are certain players whose interactions would bring about nothing but badness.

So I have played on Arelith for a bit over a year (with ~6 months of hiatus in there until recently) and this is my first forum account now. I've been very happy overall. I interact with ALL characters and do not break in-character even if I don't like an opposing character (so much the better actually, provided rules are respected - being around only agreeable characters gets boring fast), but I don't think people should strive to use Arelith as something of another Facebook or Reddit. That is the way of pain.


But maybe y'all think I'm crazy, which is your right

Of course I'm going to say 'to each their own', but I couldn't agree with this more. Social platforms, for all the fun, nevertheless have universal issues, sometimes heightened when based around gaming, which far beyond Arelith has a reputation for toxicity, bullying and generally causing social anxiety, none of these things we can pretend we're immune from.

But as I said before I've no wish to tell people where to go, or conversely to lend lend legitimacy to Discord by launching an official version.

I guess what bothers me most about it is that it goes entirely against the whole definition of an RPG. Instead of being about the persona of our characters, and the escapism from 'Real World' identities that naturally entails, it becomes about who WE are. Who is popular, who is not, who is the latest person to get shit-talked. It can be horrible, and really exhausting. Every week or so we get some kind of bullying reported, either people getting hurt due to unkindness, or just feeling purposely excluded by the 'cool kids' in a community where they had previously believed the members to be supportive of one another.

People do have their personal discord fiefdoms, and what is said there naturally feeds into the in-game culture or causes paranoia and distress.

But it's really not just Arelith having to deal with this, it has become a ubiquitous feature of gaming, and has been the subject of some genuinely chilling stories in the media.

We can't just put our fingers in our ears and pretend Discord isnt there, but equally when people are saying they have been hurt or even traumatised by anxiety due their experience of it then I dont feel we should just dismiss them outright either.

In the end this will all be resolved in an arena far greater than our little server, but I do feel sad when I see 'popularity' play an outsized role in a community ,where given our nature as an RPG, it really shouldn't matter - after all; nobody gets into D&D to emulate the high school experience.

[Elena]

Reading the initial post from Subutai made me sad. It reminded me of why I could not enjoy playing on Arelith for a long time.

To keep it short: I totally agree with Seven Sons of Sin.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

Eh, We aren't all Arelithian, We are humans, And we are flawed, Different and often not on the same page.

[xanrael]

The bizarre thing about the anti-communication stance people are taking is that I, personally, always like people more after getting to know them ooc.

If I hit someone up on discord asking "Hey, why did you think X was a good idea?", they'll lay out a list of reasons. Even if I don't agree with them, I can at least understand them. This is a person I can start speaking to and reasoning with on their level, in their language, in a way that might make sense to them.

When I can't communicate with a player I'm left alone with my own assumptions.

If someone sees me do something that seems careless out of context, I'd prefer that they bring it up to me on discord so I can contextualize the behavior, rather than go on thinking that's just the way I am.

I think a big difference is in your example both people are willing to have a conversation with each other. That's an ideal use of the platform IMO.

Where it gets problematic is someone having a conversation about another person, often specifically because they know the target of their ire is not present. That's not to say the latter is all bad, you could ask a trusted third party their perspective on a situation with the intention of gaining advice on how to move forward. If the intention is to influence the other party to also dislike your target that's where you're moving into the hurtful territory.

People say things for a reason, whether a conscious choice or an unconscious urge and taking a moment to think why you want to say something or why someone else is saying bad things about another person is probably a decent use of a few seconds of your time. No policy will stop this, but the one listening can take a moment to decide if they want to be a willing participant in slinging mud before they repeat it as opposed to being a naive pawn repeating whatever they hear.

[Ecthelion]

OP Post

I believe this postulates equality of rights and treatments between all aforementionned parties, both applied and perceived as such.

@Irongron : People play RPGs, or video games in general, for a large spectrum of reasons that are often hardly 'Escapism from the [so-called] Real World'. I don't think that sort of thing should be used as a general statement, it is only a common assumption of people/media.

Edit : Shortened the quote for the sake of the scrolling.