Arelith's Timezone problem

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YEET
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Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by YEET » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:49 am

I was going to mention this on the discussion about the deadite event but it has been a gripe for me for quite a while now and I'm sure others also wish to discuss it. Arelith isn't a timezone friendly server, every major event ever is constantly on the timezone for the majority of players, which I completely understand that most player base so most people would be involved, but 9/10 I will never be able to make anything exciting or get to experience any of the work that the DMs are doing for others enjoyment. Such as the Guldorand attack, which one of my characters was deeply invested in, I had to either stay up all night or wake up at 2 am to be able to make it. It's hard to get invested when you know that you probably won't be available for any major payoff or exciting event.

I'm not saying stop having events that some people can't make, I'm saying please try and consider the players in a timezone other than the major player base.
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Gideon DeVay
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Gideon DeVay » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:52 am

I can tell you it's a real hustle to be active at GMT+9.

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Irongron
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Irongron » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:37 am

We have always really tried hard to focus on our time zone issues. With every round of DM interviews we've really tried to seek out staff in those time zones, with every promotion drive especially asked players in Australia, New Zealand, Korea, Indonesia etc to try extra hard to spread the word.

Ive personally exchanged messages and emails with dozens of rpg groups and societies in those regions. Anyone that knows my feelings on this know that I would rate eliminating the difference between peak hours and quiet hours far more highly than having more online at once; in a perfect world there would be no quiet hours on the server.

When we hold events we try to keep them running as long as possible, so players can still join later, but also to ensure we can manage DM coverage over such a long period.

It isn't easy. Many of our players are in the US and I know most would rather we ran this stuff in the evening rather than at lunchtime, but if we did that then no Europeans would be able to join.

8pm GMT events means early afternoon in most the US and South America, 9pm in continental Europe, around midnight in India & Pakistan and very early morning in Australia. Any earlier and US players would not make it, and those in the Pacific would be fast asleep, any later and Europeans would be excluded. With this time, if we keep it running for 6-8 hours then almost everyone will be able to join.

Our most Easterly DM will be coming on in Pakistan at around 11pm there, so we should be able to run quite late.

In the end for better time zone coverage we need more DMs from those countries, and for more DMs we need more players.

Anything any of us can do to promote Arelith East of Islamabad or west of Honolulu would be single best thing to really ensure Arelith has an effective global reach. There are D&D players all over the planet - certainly enough who would enjoy Arelith to keep us above 150 players in traditionally 'off peak' hours. We don't have an advertising budget, so if we want to change the time zone dynamic, it will take real community effort.

Nitro
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Nitro » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:43 am

YEET wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:49 am
I'm not saying stop having events that some people can't make, I'm saying please try and consider the players in a timezone other than the major player base.
The sad truth is that there really isn't any way to fix this other than by getting people in those timezones into the DM team, which won't happen unless they apply to be DM's. It'd be unreasonable to ask an american DM to stay up until 4am so they can run events for aussies.

let it trip
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by let it trip » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Would I be wrong in saying there are three (maybe four) major timezones that we can choose for events? That being the west, central and east of the globe.

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Irongron
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Irongron » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:37 pm

Nitro wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:43 am
The sad truth is that there really isn't any way to fix this other than by getting people in those timezones into the DM team, which won't happen unless they apply to be DM's. It'd be unreasonable to ask an american DM to stay up until 4am so they can run events for aussies.
This is true, and really we need an entire team. Dms need to apply, but also generally need to have proven positive track record as a player. As I said above, if we want to have a full DM team in those time zones we need a lot more players there.

I'd love to see more of players in those countries make a promotion effort, and I'm also really open to any other suggestions as to how we can up our off-peak numbers.

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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by YEET » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:40 pm

I agree whole heartedly with that, one of the main reasons ive been applying for DM for the last few years, aha. Always seem to miss out though it seems.
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Irongron » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:56 pm

I should have added that over the last few years we've achieved a lot in this area. Right now it is midnight in Australia and shortly before 10pm I Korea and we are at 75 players.

Not too long ago those were our peak time numbers.

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Dreams
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Dreams » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:27 am

The thing is, players of these lesser played timezones are often expected to just adjust or miss out. Regardless of whether there are dedicated DMs for a Timezone, I would request that at least timezones are taken into consideration.

For instance, this zombie event thing could be run again at a different time for the people who missed out. Or more of a heads up can be given in advance about date/time - so that we can plan accordingly if we have to wake/stay up to 3am to participate in a once a year event.

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Marsi
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Marsi » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:29 am

This has been a recurring struggle of mine as an Aussie timezoner.

While having global DM coverage would be nice, what's more effective in my opinion is to structure events in a way that the narrative isn't confined to the DM contact hours alone.

Sorry for the boomer energy, but the Crown of Horns quest will continue to be the exemplar DM quest in my eyes because what transpired during the big, peak-time events was only as important as what happened in between. There were plot hooks for each time-zone and every level bracket, there was persistent environmental story-telling, and there were consequences for the IG political powers to wrangle with.

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Seekeepeek
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Seekeepeek » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:43 am

i played the event to the reset (so mostly in the buggy boring first 2 hours.), the screenshots after the looks like fun. shame it was done on a Sunday so i didn't even have to mobility to stay up late since i have work Monday.

if it's done next year as an annual thing, then i suggest making it more automated and last for 24 hours, so that DMs are not a requirement. i'd rather the DMs are the spice, rather then the meat in the hamburger. if that make sense.

i mean no disrespect to the DMs of cause. it's more like a solution to the problem of them being human and need to sleep to. given there is few DMs in some timezones.

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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Aurian » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:38 pm

Starting a little earlier (say, 1 PM EST instead of 3 PM) should be possible, even for Americans. This would give Europeans a far better time window to get into the thick of things, especially if there are some difficulties / delays during the first couple hours of an event. I think it's far more reasonable for East Coast Americans to get on at 1 PM (or a little after the start, with the option to stay online for many hours) than it is for Europeans to either only experience the first 2-3 hours or call in sick at work the next day.

If I interpret the Aussie timezone correctly, this is super early in the morning for them, but still - they have the option to get on later, and then stay for the full duration, which is still better than having to log off after the first two hours.

Some good suggestions above - 24 hour events that don't always require DM supervision would probably be best for everyone.

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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Gideon DeVay » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:35 pm

Just holding the event on Saturday instead of Sunday makes a big difference for us, too.
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The GrumpyCat
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by The GrumpyCat » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:27 pm

With the Deadite event there was a lot of talk about whether to hold it on a saterday or sunday. In the end sunday squeaked through, though only just due to luck of the draw.
When I run events, I do try to do events which create discussion around them, so that hopefully they 'run' whilst I'm away via people discussing them, and maybe even taking small actions I can take account of later.
Ultimatly though - this is almost always going to be a problem. I really hope we get some DMs during quieter hours in the next line of interviews, but they have to also be of a standard that fits the DM team. And as harsh as it sounds, even if we manage to get one or two around that time period, there's no surity they'll stick around. Quite a few people try being DMs, and find that it's just not as much fun as playing.
Further more, for larger server shattering events, it is ultimatly a bit of a numbers game.
It's hard to get invested when you know that you probably won't be available for any major payoff or exciting event.
To use that example - ultimatly there's a choice.
You hold the event when 10 players can be about, who don't usually get involved in DM events, but that means they're able to witness the fall of a settlment ect. Or you hold it at a time when 50 of the players are about. And ultimatly that means holding it at the 'busy time' and thus large events happening at 'the busy time.'
(Also at a time when most DMs are avaible, which, for very grand events , will again be late GMT/early EST time)

Again, it's annoying, and frustrating, and unfair, and a PITA, and I ENTIRELY agree that it'd be great to have more events held at different times and I really hope that happens. But when it comes to the larger server changing events, they'll likely happen always at the 'busy times'. Because that's when most people and most DMs are about.
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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Aurian » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:20 pm

DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:27 pm
When I run events, I do try to do events which create discussion around them, so that hopefully they 'run' whilst I'm away via people discussing them, and maybe even taking small actions I can take account of later.
That sounds awesome, I hope I get to experience one of them. 8-)
DM GrumpyCat wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:27 pm
You hold the event when 10 players can be about, who don't usually get involved in DM events, but that means they're able to witness the fall of a settlment ect. Or you hold it at a time when 50 of the players are about. And ultimatly that means holding it at the 'busy time' and thus large events happening at 'the busy time.'
The numbers don't seem that extreme to me. During European evenings (which would be around noon to 6 PM EST) I frequently count 120+ players on the combined servers, especially during weekends. Those numbers don't seem considerably higher at around midnight / 1 AM my time or 7 PM EST, which is when I tend to log off.

I've played a bunch of MUDs with largely US-centered playerbases and in my experience, peak hours on weekends are - for the most part - something that develops due to expectation rather than necessity. Players get used to this being the time when stuff happens, so that's when they log in - not because they absolutely can't get on earlier, but because it's been that way for decades. I think a huge event like the fall of a city would be attractive enough for many players to adjust their schedules and plans a bit, IF the event was announced at least a week or so in advance.

Of course some DMs might be limited due to kids and wanting to spend their Sunday afternoon with the family, which I can understand.

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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Ryudo » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:48 pm

While I would like more dms and plots on more time zones as an Aus player myself I never really saw them as a key feature of Arelith. In my opinion we shouldn't be so much asking dms for events but rather try to create our own. Small things usually snowball to larger things after all! Trying to engage the community at more time zones usually brings in more activity in those time zones which in turn can lead to more potential dms for those time zones if that is what you wish but more importantly there will be more people rping then. I am by no means saying this is an easy thing to do or something that will be quick, what I am saying is that it is on us to create the engagement we wish regardless of circumstance.

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Re: Arelith's Timezone problem

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:29 pm

Ryudo wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:48 pm
While I would like more dms and plots on more time zones as an Aus player myself I never really saw them as a key feature of Arelith. In my opinion we shouldn't be so much asking dms for events but rather try to create our own. Small things usually snowball to larger things after all! Trying to engage the community at more time zones usually brings in more activity in those time zones which in turn can lead to more potential dms for those time zones if that is what you wish but more importantly there will be more people rping then. I am by no means saying this is an easy thing to do or something that will be quick, what I am saying is that it is on us to create the engagement we wish regardless of circumstance.
I concur.

Regional division and lack of parity only becomes more obvious when there are more DM events. It's something I think Devs/DMs need to keep in mind when Server Events are firing on all cylinders.

There's nothing more disheartening than logging in, hearing about 4 global events, then never being able to partake in them.
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