Why I prefer UD to Surface

[Eo Vew]

I'll preface this by saying this is simply my opinion regarding the subject and perhaps food for thought.

I have played Arelith for quite some time and have enjoyed being a part of almost all of the many factions of players. While there are many factions which I love and have enjoyed, it has become very clear to me that the UD, as a community overall, is very unique and healthy (wait for it). Across the board I have noticed a high level of maturity, self responsibility and kindness OOC (some would say ironically because we are evil monsters) from the players I interact with. Thats not to say that is nonexistent on the surface but it is in high concentration in the UD. There are many examples of players who, despite the character they play, and their individual RP, have care for the experience and story for those around them, and not just themselves. But, why is this?

It is easy to settle into your comfort zone and bury your head in your hole and have fun playing in your little corner. The Surface certainly lends itself to this. There are so many different places to see/go/hide that everything is fractured (which has pros and cons). Pros include being able to get away from RP you dont like and explore RP you enjoy. As for cons, let's first talk about the UD.

Everything centers around the Hub. And everything comes back to the Hub. This allows for a certain level of accountability you cant get on the surface. There, you have to rely on individual groups to govern their own behavior, and across the board, they are, of course, biased. Groups can wander around and be huge A holes and nobody is really going to do or say anything about it. They go back to their corner, and others go back to theirs.

What is more difficult than keeping your head down is stopping and taking a look around and taking personal responsibility for what's happening around you. On several occasions I have seen the UD rise up, almost as a whole, and correct unhealthy behavior from players with a very loud and clear message. They also go out of their way to do so without unnecessary violence, focusing on story. Consideration you ironically get little of on the Surface.

Now, I certainly dont want to seem to besmirch most of the surface for the behavior of a few bad apples. It's difficult to pick them out of the barrel with so many barrels they can be in. There are a lot of very good players on the Surface and healthy factions. Most of them in fact. But, I would like to give a special kudos to UD players who make a point to keep their own backyard clean. It's nice that we can, and even nicer that we do. I think, because of this, people with this tendency continue to gravitate to and stay in our pocket of Arelith.

Give yourself a pat on the back. You know who you are.

P.S.
Move Cordor onto Surface. Please and thank you.

[Echohawk]

No? Where an area of the module is placed is based on population and has nothing to do with the actual areas affected.
Your argument is sentimental and irrelevant to the load of the server distribution.

If you have disagreements with characters, you should probably approach them and work it out. OOC if need be and be polite.
And if you have a problem with a player, you should report it to the DMs. Metagaming isn't allowed in case you weren't aware.
(Re-read the rules if you need to, and just report even when it doesn't seem like a direct rule break. It can still be a problem.)

Edit: People are allowed to have preferences, they should try a lot of aspects of the server as much as possible. But this whole 'this is my opinion debate me' attitude of the topic is unnecessary. If you don't try various areas you don't know what you're missing. If you don't resolve/confront conflicts, you condone them. So the argument of 'bad apples' and just simply avoiding them is a poor ethic in general. Either report it, or realize that it's not a rule break and try not to take everything to heart.

The Underdark is a place, Cordor is a place, they're all fine with their own unique charms and challenges. It's up to you to make your own fun.

[Royal Blood]

The designs of Andunor keeping everything so tight packed forces greater consideration I think. You have to be tactful. You have to form alliances and you -have- to be flexible. The nature of playing evil demands one to be competitive to so politics change fairly frequently. There's betrayals and intrigue often and loads of factions finding ways to cooperate and find mutual interest.

If anyone is thinking about getting into the UD I think it's great. The players are friendly. An offset to the otherwise violent characters! It's worth checking out I think spend a few weeks and throw yourself into events or just talk to people. There's a lot of proactive characters that can scoop you into plots

[Eo Vew]

Thanks Royal Blood. That's what I was trying to say while encouraging others to do what many players of the UD do.

I'm...not sure what post Echohawk meant to be posting to.

My P.S also was not related to the post or the point of it. My point was to applaud the many of players of the UD that make it a fun place to play, and keep it that way. All players should strive to do that.

Although, it would be nice if overlapping RP events didnt turn the game into a slide show for everyone.

[Echohawk]

Yes it's related to your PS.

And no matter what server an event is on it tends to bog down the servers. Or if they've been online too long. So you're complaining about something unavoidable.

[Eo Vew]

No? Where an area of the module is placed is based on population and has nothing to do with the actual areas affected.
Your argument is sentimental and irrelevant to the load of the server distribution.

Weird that's what you focused on. Yes, my statement is meant to be sentimental.

If you have disagreements with characters, you should probably approach them and work it out. OOC if need be and be polite.
Yes. Like I said. Players should be polite to each other OOC.
And if you have a problem with a player, you should report it to the DMs. Metagaming isn't allowed in case you weren't aware.
(Re-read the rules if you need to, and just report even when it doesn't seem like a direct rule break. It can still be a problem.)
I'm aware of the rules, who was talking about metagaming?

Edit: People are allowed to have preferences, they should try a lot of aspects of the server as much as possible. But this whole 'this is my opinion debate me' attitude of the topic is unnecessary.
I don't know where you drew that attitude from. I'm sorry? I guess how a message is received is even more important than its delivered. I usually dont post things like this because they are sure to be flamed.
If you don't try various areas you don't know what you're missing.
That's what I did, and what I recommend others do as well.
If you don't resolve/confront conflicts, you condone them. So the argument of 'bad apples' and just simply avoiding them is a poor ethic in general.
My whole post is encouraging people not to do this.

Either report it, or realize that it's not a rule break and try not to take everything to heart.
Yes.

The Underdark is a place, Cordor is a place, they're all fine with their own unique charms and challenges. It's up to you to make your own fun.
Yes.

[Eo Vew]

Yes it's related to your PS.

And no matter what server an event is on it tends to bog down the servers. Or if they've been online too long. So you're complaining about something unavoidable.

You're right.

[Huschpfusch]

UD? Yrch! If it were not for server policies all my characters would eventually end up on surface.
But leaving aside personal landscape preference, Andunor/UD per basic design offers more possibility than Cordor:

Cordor has:
+ surface races.

Andunor has:
+surface-equivalent races, that actually come in 3 varieties:
o native (drow, duergar...)
o outcast (humans, surface, elves, hin...)
o slave (humans, surface elves, hin...)
+ beastly types

Quite a variety of possible storytypes going on in Andunor at any given time. Also it is possible to easily cram any surface character into UD either via outcast or slave story. Whereas the opposite, a transfer from UD to surface, is not easily if at all possible for UD monstrous types.

Also, yes, since Andunor is so small it is really crammed with characters and their stories, that often enough play out in full public view. Hub drama especially. It is REALLY easy to get involved in things.
Whereas the surface characters are scattered across quite a number of (starting) locations.

Concerning quality of players, I do not think there is a fundamental difference between the number of good sports on surface and UD server, since the core of Arelith players seem to be quite fluid in respect to their server and also character choice.
The appearance of jerks/grievers on whatever server is probably more linked to just what class is en vogue/overpowered and where big things are happening -> = more players/characters = more victims for griever to go jerk-mode on.

[Eo Vew]

Agreed.

That's kind of the second point to my original post. With the proximity of the happenings in UD, once the jerks makes themselves apparent, the UD community kind of addresses it. In one way or the other. Its kind of cool. Like peer to peer coaching.

Anyway. Just wanted to say I really enjoy UD RP. My experience with House Xun'viir was one of the best experiences I have had on Arelith. Up to that point I had heard nothing but bad thing about Drow RP. But it was dope AF. Intrigue. Plotting. Scheming. Revenge. Murder. It had it all.

I'm proud of the players in the UD. They're not all perfect but that's OK. If you haven't tried playing in the UD, you should.

[Diegovog]

I'm one of those players who fell in love for UD.

I don't have specific arguments or pointers but there is a huge feeling that most players I interact with are more mature and healthier to RP.

The biggest problem with Andunor is that if you are not online when things happen, you're missing 80% of the action.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

I love the UD community, I sadly can't get into the areas.

[Aurian]

I haven't played on the Surface (yet), but I can say the UD is what drew me to Arelith in the first place. I had briefly played on another PW when I heard about Arelith's UD and just couldn't resist. Imo it's one of the things that really sets it apart from other worlds. I can't think of any that even let you play a non-outcast drow.

[Beard Master Flex]

Speaking purely on a mechanical level I think the UD is the model to follow for design.

Having a consolidated hub (literally) and a smaller, more linear wilderness has just leant itself to far more random and spontaneous RP in my anecdotal experience.

I love the areas on the surface but they are so large now (And increasing?) that I find the random encounter between travellers is just rarer and rarer.

The UD is just rife with more interaction IMO; whether the style of that interaction is your cup of tea is another matter.

TLDR; I wish the surface was a smaller, tighter experience.

[Exordius]

"I find the random encounter between travellers is just rarer and rarer."

Most people in the surface are in the cities doing rp. With portals everywhere you are not likely to find people traveling unless they are new and still exploring but inside the cities you have all kinds of random encounters.

[Petrifictus]

I love the UD community, I mean no insult to the surfacers but sometimes I feel UD RP is more fresh, healthy, mature and the best experience Arelith can provide.

Surface is good but has little bit too much room to avoid "negative RP," which usually leads into players who just want to pick the tasty creams from their awful cake they baked but not take the slice. Which often leads player just changing scenery and act it never happended.
Not to mention surfacers not often giving the benefit of RP by their quick trigger fingers for exiles, excluding people out from the settlement or jumping into PvP when things get little too close to comfort zone, which is usually conflict RP itself and not giving room for it at all.

I borrow the words of a friend who well formed up my feelings into words about differences between surface and Underdark:
"You're going to have enemies, it's an enjoyable experience. You go and RP with them. You fight and intrigue!
You conduct adventures to make ritual circles to curse them, and then come by to taunt them!

Not this... skulking, stupid, worthless, silent, miserable - etc. etc. - idea people have that they can conduct conflict safely at a distance without repercussions."

In the surface good people are basically acting like evil people.
We conflict with as much "good" people as the evil, because we actually hold to our values and oaths and keep them, for the most part, on the whole.

[Artenides]

It's just a personal opinion, but I have to agree with you OP. I have been around for a few years and mostly played surfacers. While I enjoyed my time under the sun, I was always itching to play an underdarker, so a few months ago I made a dark elf to look around there.
The players have been very welcoming from the beginning and I often found myself surrounded by other characters. It is definitely a different experience, I love every bit of interaction.
Leveling is a bit more difficult for me, but this is just because I barely know the maps or the monsters there.

[Zavandar]

tbh this thread feels backhanded

[Vespidae]

The UD lets players explore some darker themes, like slavery - being or owning a slave, and that takes a certain amount of responsibility to other players to do right. Playing evil characters or interacting with them in a non-killing way requires it.
On the surface, everyone has to be the right kind of nice or they're not allowed on the bouncy castle.

[Echohawk]

Strong disagreement.
While there is lower tolerance in most areas for 'dubious alignment' and so on. You've got literally the Sencliff pirates who are on the surface in their own domain. And there are places and means to go about thing. What's different is that you cannot parade around with your vampire/mummy squad on a palemaster without someone taking notice. It's called consequence, and it is necessary otherwise you're not talking about roleplaying, you're only focusing on whatever build is the best regardless of morality or social standards. And that's for MMOs.

[Aurian]

Strong disagreement.
While there is lower tolerance in most areas for 'dubious alignment' and so on. You've got literally the Sencliff pirates who are on the surface in their own domain. And there are places and means to go about thing. What's different is that you cannot parade around with your vampire/mummy squad on a palemaster without someone taking notice. It's called consequence, and it is necessary otherwise you're not talking about roleplaying, you're only focusing on whatever build is the best regardless of morality or social standards. And that's for MMOs.

Strong disagreement. There is plenty of consequence in the UD - hell, the hub turns into a battlefield at least once a day. There's also multi-faction politics, and they're quite intricate with a lot of consequence. The reactions are simply less focused on appearances and more on what you actually DO with your zombie summoner.

I just wish we had more efficient means of keeping Surfacers out. Killing them repeatedly, while they respawn repeatedly, gets old at some point.

[Petrifictus]

We need to put an end to surfacer's "Weekends at Andunor" and really limit their presence at the city, Hub included as its getting silly watching elves and halflings walking around free without anyone being able to do anything, as otherwise it would hurt feelings.

Put same policy on surfacers like the monstrous races have in Sibayad and Crow's Nest with a huge sign if people are keen to keep hold on trade city theme in the Andunor. We should inspire and encourage people to play with the actual UD races.
If you really want to play in the UD as surface race, pick an outcast (or RP hard enough to become one at the surface) or become a slave. Having pirate ink dont suddenly make character one with the Underdark either.

[Nitro]

Wow, not even one page into a thread about the UD and we've already got the "Surfacers get out REEEE" derail, that must be a new record.

The above is why I don't prefer the UD, because it can get very insular at times and that leads to a lot of OOC drama and PvP fiestas (days without seeing a bashed corpse in the hub: 0).

[Aurian]

The above is why I don't prefer the UD, because it can get very insular at times and that leads to a lot of OOC drama and PvP fiestas (days without seeing a bashed corpse in the hub: 0).

In my two months or so I've never seen any OOC drama, but plenty of IC drama - exactly as it should be. I suspect the bashed corpses triggered the previously mentioned consequences somehow... a lot of them appear to be halflings without collar. They're probably bashed because they've been eaten

The insular nature makes perfect sense IC. Surfacers wouldn't want a bunch of vampires hanging out in Cordor, either. And some races tend to be xenophobic, as they should be according to the setting's lore.

[Echohawk]

Aurian you seem like you've had a very different experience than a lot of us have.

Which is good and bad, good that you enjoy it, but you're also denying our experiences and using a shift of topic to 'oh but look at Cordor' or 'oh look at Bendir' and that's not the point of this topic. Deflecting is a good way to distract people from the initial intent, and our concerns and experiences are valid.

Frankly speaking the thread is a great way for UD folks to talk smack about everyone they don't like, and are suggesting things that need to be enforced in game but instead are complaining about it here.
I think this thread should close down soon.

[Aurian]

Aurian you seem like you've had a very different experience than a lot of us have.

This thread was started by someone who likes the UD and hasn't had notable negative experiences there. Several people have posted who enjoy the UD and haven't had notable negative experiences there. The problem doesn't seem that widespread to me...

Besides, the solution is simple: if you don't enjoy an area, don't play there. There are plenty of others to enjoy!