Breaking a Disguise through Roleplay (formerly phrased as Smarts)

[Drogo Gyslain]

"human slave" and using a blank disguise, it astonishes me how often ill get approached with " i dont see a name on your collar, reveal yourself to me or die"

its usually atleast once a day something like this happens, regardless of where i am or what i am disguising as. and none of them ever break it.

I've outright refused people for this. To me, that is bottom of the barrel RP and not even close to worthy of being allowed. If that is the entire crux of your RP, then I have better things to do than reveal myself to you.

Make it interesting, make it fun. Its like baking a cake. If you skip all the ingredients and eat the frosting, what good is baking a cake?

[ReverentBlade]

If you can't be arsed to change your description I'm not going to play deliberately stupid, sorry.

[Arigard]

as someone who uses disguises a lot, i find it infuriating how often people try to force me to break my disguise. to avoid re-writing an entire bio for each situation i keep a few saved for disguises i re-use, and keep a blank one for throwaway disguises. but when im disguised as something simple like "human slave" and using a blank disguise, it astonishes me how often ill get approached with " i dont see a name on your collar, reveal yourself to me or die"

This one is actually a little bit of a grey area IMO. Rpwise the slave collars are very distinctive and are also magical artifacts. Having a very clear collar around your neck created by the city is the usual standard and it is something that is constantly seen. If we are going with the ruling of WYSIWYG, then looking at someone without a traditional slave collar, it would be fairly easy to spot they do not have said collar, especially if the description does not match exactly how a slave one works. I'm not sure if there's ever been a ruling of whether mimicking slave collars falls under the disguise mechanic.

I dunno, putting on makeup/changing your appearance is one thing. RPing that you can have created a fake collar to represent a very powerful magical item, that can fool everyone in the city when there are base underling magical properties, is another. You might argue that you've just created something super convincing, but anyone with a shred of spell-craft should in theory be able to examine the object and understand that it is not the same as a slave collar.

[DeamonHeart]

Back in the day = we didn't have the opportunity to change our descriptions / Bio = Why should we NOW?

What you -SEE- (Not what you Inspect-) is What you get - Is the RULE

Even as I have been around to see all of these changes, I still do not know personally HOW to do it. But does that stop me from playing a Disguise person - No

I'm sorry if you feel entitled to -demand- I change my Bio but I have six kids, and a wife and a Job.. Sorry If I cant be bothered to meet your requirements for RP.

Also - If I could - and knew how to Copy and paste a bio change I -Most likely would, Then I would truly be a master of disguise Because I know from my ranks in Bluff/Preform, No way in the nine divines Would you be able to break it.. Oh but wait, Things changed *Insert Britney spears song Oops I did it again* Not -attempting to attack -anyone- person here but seriously I will reference what I said - Prior

What you -see- (NOT what you Inspect) Is what you get. - Person /Helm / Armor/ Cloak/ Weapon (if applicable)- then Roll against my Bluff/Preform IF not I am Truly sorry for your inability to break my disguise.

That being said - IF you wish to inquire if you -know someone who -says a PARTICULAR phrase- frequently if you have meet them before / A seasonable and sensible player will -hint (if not out right) tell you yes or no.

BUT this is Just my Opinion based off of what I have experienced. And again I am NOT targeting anyone Specific *please note no quotes of conversations*

-now laugh silly it was funny (as small of an attempt as it was)-

Thanks Have a wonderful day!

[Tathkar Eisgrim]

For reference:

From the Wiki:
Description

Under Saving / Loading:

Using Disguise under the same name as a saved description will automatically load that description. Going out of disguise will automatically reload the standard description (but just the same, it may be wise to save your normal description).

===

You can then set each of these disguises on your action bar using the custom text option.

[Drogo Gyslain]

For reference:

From the Wiki:
Description

Under Saving / Loading:

Using Disguise under the same name as a saved description will automatically load that description. Going out of disguise will automatically reload the standard description (but just the same, it may be wise to save your normal description).

===

You can then set each of these disguises on your action bar using the custom text option.

OMG.... THATS AMAZING!!!

Thank you for this glorious bounty!!!! (tested, works, love it!)

[msheeler]

Character A sees Character B. Character B has a certain way of speaking, a particular outfit and description. Character B punches Character A in the face and takes his bag of cashews.

Then Character B runs into the Nomad and uses -disguise but his way of speaking, particular outfit and description stay. Character B has made no real effort to actually disguise beyond the mechanical function. Character A enters with the guards and points Disguise Character B out even though he didn't break the disguise as the very possible suspect.

This scenario is one of the instances where I feel that observational disguise breaking is within the reasonable parameters. That said, without actually breaking the disguise, it would leave your character the space to not be entirely convinced that they are right about their accusation.

However beyond that, I would be very very cautious about observational disguise breaking because if the character is~ that observant they will have the skills and stats to back that rp up.

-S

Alternatively you can use something like ... "He ran in here and looks. . . HEY! He looks just like that guy right there, same shirt, pants and everything!"

. . . or . . .

"He sounds exactly like that guy, I mean talks just like him. They must have been raised in the same house!"

[Halibutthead]

Description text also exists and should be used.

this is why i don't bother with descriptions for most of my characters. i've been meta'd enough times that i decided "you know, i'd rather not have a detailed description at all then have to remember to change it all the time." sure, the world becomes just a bit less colorful, but at least i don't have to deal with that albatross.

[Nitro]

Description text also exists and should be used.

this is why i don't bother with descriptions for most of my characters. i've been meta'd enough times that i decided "you know, i'd rather not have a detailed description at all then have to remember to change it all the time." sure, the world becomes just a bit less colorful, but at least i don't have to deal with that albatross.

Using Disguise under the same name as a saved description will automatically load that description. Going out of disguise will automatically reload the standard description (but just the same, it may be wise to save your normal description).

[ReverentBlade]

I'm not even a disguise focused character and I have 4-5 presaved disguises and descriptions ready to go. It takes half an hour to set up and you're good to go pretty much forever.

[Halibutthead]

Using Disguise under the same name as a saved description will automatically load that description. Going out of disguise will automatically reload the standard description (but just the same, it may be wise to save your normal description).

that's not the problem. the problem is it's too well accepted in the community that a bad description can give away a disguise, whereas no description won't give you any trouble at all.

[Tathkar Eisgrim]

Using Disguise under the same name as a saved description will automatically load that description. Going out of disguise will automatically reload the standard description (but just the same, it may be wise to save your normal description).

that's not the problem. the problem is it's too well accepted in the community that a bad description can give away a disguise, whereas no description won't give you any trouble at all.

Maybe new characters should be required to enter their description [temp] at character creation to earn their 10 RPR?

[Archnon]

Using Disguise under the same name as a saved description will automatically load that description. Going out of disguise will automatically reload the standard description (but just the same, it may be wise to save your normal description).

that's not the problem. the problem is it's too well accepted in the community that a bad description can give away a disguise, whereas no description won't give you any trouble at all.

Maybe new characters should be required to enter their description [temp] at character creation to earn their 10 RPR?

Or perhaps we could focus less on winning by keeping our disguise up and instead allow ourselves to occasionally be found and see where the rp goes.

We think in a videogame we should always win but this isn't a typical game. Winning might mean getting caught and enjoying the ride.

[Tathkar Eisgrim]

Or perhaps we could focus less on winning by keeping our disguise up and instead allow ourselves to occasionally be found and see where the rp goes.

We think in a videogame we should always win but this isn't a typical game. Winning might mean getting caught and enjoying the ride.

Oh, absolutely. It is not an easy transition to make however. I'm not above admitting I personally find it difficult. I'm not a natural PvP'er by any means. We certainly should be open-minded and sympathetic towards players when we roleplay such scenes.

[Seren]

I think the OP is suggesting mannerisms which are extreme / very evident. Two examples;

Player A plays a character who uses very niche language that no other character does as some kind of quirk. Imagine 'zoinks' from scooby-do. You see a disguised man who starts saying this word that you only know one other person to have spoken in your months / years of playing. I think it would be feasible to make that connection ICly under those circumstances. I think the same could be said for a very niche phrase.

Player B plays a character who knows something about your character that only 1-2 other people in the world do. I think that it would depend on how much player B trusts those 1-2 other people not to divulge that information in order to make a (potentially false) assumption about the person in question. You could argue scrying, but there are also means of never being scried if you play your cards right, so I'm not immediately jumping to that card.

[Archnon]

I think the OP is suggesting mannerisms which are extreme / very evident. Two examples;

Player A plays a character who uses very niche language that no other character does as some kind of quirk. Imagine 'zoinks' from scooby-do. You see a disguised man who starts saying this word that you only know one other person to have spoken in your months / years of playing. I think it would be feasible to make that connection ICly under those circumstances. I think the same could be said for a very niche phrase.

The best part about this is it leaves room for the intrigued of someone mimicking that players style for subversive purposes.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Back in the day = we didn't have the opportunity to change our descriptions / Bio = Why should we NOW?

What you -SEE- (Not what you Inspect-) is What you get - Is the RULE

Even as I have been around to see all of these changes, I still do not know personally HOW to do it. But does that stop me from playing a Disguise person - No

I'm sorry if you feel entitled to -demand- I change my Bio but I have six kids, and a wife and a Job.. Sorry If I cant be bothered to meet your requirements for RP.

Also - If I could - and knew how to Copy and paste a bio change I -Most likely would, Then I would truly be a master of disguise Because I know from my ranks in Bluff/Preform, No way in the nine divines Would you be able to break it.. Oh but wait, Things changed *Insert Britney spears song Oops I did it again* Not -attempting to attack -anyone- person here but seriously I will reference what I said - Prior

What you -see- (NOT what you Inspect) Is what you get. - Person /Helm / Armor/ Cloak/ Weapon (if applicable)- then Roll against my Bluff/Preform IF not I am Truly sorry for your inability to break my disguise.

That being said - IF you wish to inquire if you -know someone who -says a PARTICULAR phrase- frequently if you have meet them before / A seasonable and sensible player will -hint (if not out right) tell you yes or no.

BUT this is Just my Opinion based off of what I have experienced. And again I am NOT targeting anyone Specific *please note no quotes of conversations*

-now laugh silly it was funny (as small of an attempt as it was)-

Thanks Have a wonderful day!

In order to inspect a character to attempt to break their disguise, I first have to examine them, and before I get to the bottom where it tells me the results of the disguise break, I have to scroll past their description. If their description mentions, for example, a distinguishing scar running across their cheek, and their disguise is just a name change with the same outfit and no facial covering/hood, that's a little awkward for me to play out. What I see is what I get, and what I see is someone who looks exactly like the guy I was just chasing, scar and all, insisting 'it's not me, honest!"

I agree that description saving is a little bit of a time investment, but it has a huge payout in the quality of the disguise experience for both sides, and I'd strongly encourage you to reconsider it, even given your understandable time constraints. You will have fewer people using your description as an attempt at recognizing you and they will appreciate your mastery of disguise all the more for it since it gives them a reason other than unreasonable obliviousness for their character to not notice.

Unfortunately, I do agree with the sentiment that this means that some people will err on the side of no description at all, as it means you don't have a description to identify you with, but then you get into the visual side of WYSIWYG - if you're dressed, for example, in a flowing black robe, a skull mask, and carrying a scythe, and you (Disguise) in the same outfit, that's also going to be a little suss for the character looking for a scythe-wielding grim-reaper, most likely.

FWIW, Arelith has a lot of really awesome tools to make this cumbersome process a matter of pressing a few hotkeys once you've saved your initial descriptions. It's pretty awesome. So awesome I came back to edit this to use the word awesome four times in one paragraph instead of two.

[Thalion]

as someone who uses disguises a lot, i find it infuriating how often people try to force me to break my disguise. to avoid re-writing an entire bio for each situation i keep a few saved for disguises i re-use, and keep a blank one for throwaway disguises. but when im disguised as something simple like "human slave" and using a blank disguise, it astonishes me how often ill get approached with " i dont see a name on your collar, reveal yourself to me or die"

This one is actually a little bit of a grey area IMO. Rpwise the slave collars are very distinctive and are also magical artifacts. Having a very clear collar around your neck created by the city is the usual standard and it is something that is constantly seen. If we are going with the ruling of WYSIWYG, then looking at someone without a traditional slave collar, it would be fairly easy to spot they do not have said collar, especially if the description does not match exactly how a slave one works. I'm not sure if there's ever been a ruling of whether mimicking slave collars falls under the disguise mechanic.

I dunno, putting on makeup/changing your appearance is one thing. RPing that you can have created a fake collar to represent a very powerful magical item, that can fool everyone in the city when there are base underling magical properties, is another. You might argue that you've just created something super convincing, but anyone with a shred of spell-craft should in theory be able to examine the object and understand that it is not the same as a slave collar.

just a 'little' late of a responce. ( i only log into the forums once in a blue moon) but i should likely clarify, the character that i have that disguises as "slave" is actually a slave with bonkers bluff. ive used a number of different bios to play around with what gets people to not approach me. i have even disguised as myself and added to my bio " the owners name on the collar is obstructed "

(my slave got into alot of trouble, so this was their solution, to just be another random slave not worthy of notice


so my Slave (Disguised), actually has a real collar on. i got less and less detailed with the disguise names and description because of just how often i would get approached in the disguised tag, eventually just making the bio in that disguise something like " only the most paranoid and insecure would think this slave out of place" or "this person is clearly a slave, having the collar on and such, not any more unusual than any other slave". kind of stuff

Edit: also seeing how once u pass a certain amount of bluff, the tag (disguised slave) changes to just (disguised) allowing me to prance around cordor all willy nilly and no one is the wiser, that the ability to hide or perceptibly obscure or alter their own collar is reasonable within the bounds of mechanics and rp

[Halibutthead]

In order to inspect a character to attempt to break their disguise, I first have to examine them, and before I get to the bottom where it tells me the results of the disguise break, I have to scroll past their description. If their description mentions, for example, a distinguishing scar running across their cheek, and their disguise is just a name change with the same outfit and no facial covering/hood, that's a little awkward for me to play out. What I see is what I get, and what I see is someone who looks exactly like the guy I was just chasing, scar and all, insisting 'it's not me, honest!"

I agree that description saving is a little bit of a time investment, but it has a huge payout in the quality of the disguise experience for both sides, and I'd strongly encourage you to reconsider it, even given your understandable time constraints. You will have fewer people using your description as an attempt at recognizing you and they will appreciate your mastery of disguise all the more for it since it gives them a reason other than unreasonable obliviousness for their character to not notice.

Unfortunately, I do agree with the sentiment that this means that some people will err on the side of no description at all, as it means you don't have a description to identify you with, but then you get into the visual side of WYSIWYG - if you're dressed, for example, in a flowing black robe, a skull mask, and carrying a scythe, and you (Disguise) in the same outfit, that's also going to be a little suss for the character looking for a scythe-wielding grim-reaper, most likely.

FWIW, Arelith has a lot of really awesome tools to make this cumbersome process a matter of pressing a few hotkeys once you've saved your initial descriptions. It's pretty awesome. So awesome I came back to edit this to use the word awesome four times in one paragraph instead of two.

is is a great example of why you should never use a description on your character in the first place.

[Arigard]

Edit: also seeing how once u pass a certain amount of bluff, the tag (disguised slave) changes to just (disguised) allowing me to prance around cordor all willy nilly and no one is the wiser, that the ability to hide or perceptibly obscure or alter their own collar is reasonable within the bounds of mechanics and rp

Ahh, yeah. I thought you meant you were disguising as a slave. All good.

Not that I don't think people should be able to disguise themselves as slaves, I just think there needs to be some more clarification on what the disguise mechanic is supposed to actually be able to achieve to make it easier for players to know what is, or isn't within the realms of possibility.

[NPC Logger Number 2]

If "Guy in a Hockey Mask" attacks my character on the roads, or my character's friends tell them about how a guy in a hockey mask attacked them, and then I see "Guy in a Hockey Mask" in town I'm probably gonna assume they are the same person. I see some people running around in disguise 24/7 thinking it means they will be free to commit crimes left and right without ever facing consequences. Even if someone doesn't break your disguise they might be smart enough to figure out you're the same disguised person who kicked their dog a week earlier and you might get some comeuppance.

[Thalion]

personally i go through a fair amount of effort when using disguises. if i am using a persona, i use special bios, set outfits, and altar their behavior as well. even when using a basic disguise such as "traveler" i go through an effort to not save an outfit for those, but to just randomly mash one together. what gets me is that my slave, when disguised as an anonymous slave, gets approached like ppl broke the disguise ex. "so, you are not from around here. who are you really?" when i know for a fact they did not break the disguise or they would in fact see that i am just a slave. i have sometimes even asked people through tells if they have any real reason to approach me, often getting in responce things like " you're suspicions". as im just sitting in place. i think the disguised tag is important, i just wish it wasnt in the nameplate, but in the bio or something.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Why are people so hesitant to give people in disguise the benefit of the day?

Let people who disguise themselves have their cake. Stop trying to rules-lawyer them into the ground. If you break the disguise, you break it. Don't get all 2+2=4-1=3-quick-maths on me try deduce disguises/descriptions/language.

Unless your character is a detective or a polymath or like Khelben Arunsun, it comes across way too OOC.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Why are people so hesitant to give people in disguise the benefit of the day?

Let people who disguise themselves have their cake. Stop trying to rules-lawyer them into the ground. If you break the disguise, you break it. Don't get all 2+2=4-1=3-quick-maths on me try deduce disguises/descriptions/language.

Unless your character is a detective or a polymath or like Khelben Arunsun, it comes across way too OOC.

Because both sides have ridiculous extremes. I am happy to grant you that a low-perception/wisdom/int character probably shouldn't cleverly be arguing they pieced together someone's identity by the unique way they cut all their words that end with an 's' short a letter. You're right. That kind of thing should be reserved for the Sherlock Holmes of the world at hand.

On the flip side, can we agree that if you're chasing someone that looks like the grim reaper, and you encounter the grim reaper with a disguise tag, with the same glowing scythe and all, that there is an argument to be made that the character's vanity might reasonably hoist them by their own petard due to a highly distinguishable appearance?

I have a hard time getting behind the stance that every character should pretend to be Mr. Magoo when we fail a spot check, and I'm sure that's not what you're arguing, either, so I'm curious how you would choose to handle the above example upon failing the spot check and still being faced with said reaper, from an IC perspective.

[Aellowyn]

As far as recognizing speech patterns and behaviors go for breaking disguises, I personally would shy away from it. You may be so intelligent and smart that you are not simply seeing through their disguise in that manner, but seeing through the player themselves .
I've run into many different characters and have that "hmm they seem familiar" moment or "this person reminds me of so and so" and what'dya know they turn out to have the same player.

If they've gone through the effort to change their attire and description, I wouldn't pick too hard at their speech or behaviors UNLESS, they are the notable quirks of said character, otherwise I'd maybe respect their attempt.

There are some great roleplayers out there who can embody the persona of their characters, then there are some like myself who try, but a few personal quirks come out in the character.

And...just because someone looks like someone else disguised doesn't mean they are the same person. If you didn't break their disguise with your spot, for all you know you're sharing your scintillating secrets with an imposter !