Player Portal Privacy Problem

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MalKalz
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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by MalKalz » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:24 pm

Not all settlements.

Oustanding are:

- Bendir
- Myon
- Guldorand
- Brog

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Quidix » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:31 pm

Spyre wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:24 pm
Not all settlements.

Oustanding are:

- Bendir
- Myon
- Guldorand
- Brog
It also does not cover non-settlements. In the UD that would include the hub, boreal keep, threadstone locks etc. Probably more than half of UD shops are unrelated to a settlement (and the three areas are also the best locations in the UD).

My idea was more to get a glimpse of what is coming up before it is available, for an [modest/high] in-game fee. Anyhow, it was just an idea trying to address the underlying problem (ie people want information in a system which provides little).

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Frailman » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:10 am

Irongron wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:11 pm
When I saw the title of this thread my first thought was that we were suffering from some awful data-breach.

Now that's not the case, and I'm not going to ask the portal becomes opt in. This looks seriously overblown.

I might ask the team to but a random 1-48 hour extension on property time-outs though.
Yeah that's what I was suggesting in the post that prompted this whole discussion. It would probably remove any advantage to tracking the portal.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Skibbles » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:38 am

I have multiple thoughts on this.

One: Yes it seems hugely unlikely that portal info could be used for malicious ooc stuff (aside I suppose charting a character's habits to plan an attack on them ahead of time). Gathering and tracking info for a slight IC edge benefit of snatching up property is a bit along the creepy/desperate but isn't really breaching privacy or rules.

Two: There are people that absolutely would use info gained for malicious purpose. We've seen people attacked in the past in the most heinous ways on Arelith via data dumps and blackmail. Arelith has had (and probably still does have) some real sick puppies.

Three: I had a curious situation regarding info gathering via the portal about a month ago. I logged into a alt character on my main account accidentally. I realized it immediately and logged out within seconds and came back under the alternate account.

Weeks go by.

After many days I receive a tell from a player that quite clearly knows it's me, even as I had not told anyone nor made the split second mistake a second time in recent days. Remember this is weeks later.

The player was nice enough and I have no reason to begin to say it was malicious but it was very startling.

I asked how they knew it was me and they said "I watch the portal a lot" which to me now seems to be a truth and a lie by omission.

Were they watching the portal weeks ago for a split second log in/log off and just happened to notice me among the list of dozens for the whole two seconds it was there OR do they parse all characters and accounts into a database and track who is playing what? I fear the latter is true, and I wonder just how many people are doing it (or worse yet if there's a private tracker out there being surreptitiously shared among a number of players that does it all automatically).

Ultimately, with how disgustingly dramatic this community can sometimes be in the tracking of players they don't like in pursuit of an unsaid 'blackball' type agenda, I don't think this is healthy practice.

Sadly I don't really have a solution here but I have absolutely experienced what I think is this data sifting and charting.

Edit to add a bit more: this all makes it all the more tempting to dissaportal myself too, which is very sad. As a sort of veteran player I really like being on the portal with the help flag to be part of the 'welcoming committee' (and boy does that flag actually get used!) as well as for people to know when I am playing and thus 'available' for role play.

I recognize there's no fault with the Admins on this, and probably no easy solution. It's just sad.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Liareth » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:55 am

Skibbles wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:38 am
I recognize there's no fault with the Admins on this, and probably no easy solution. It's just sad.
I've also logged on the wrong account before. It sucks. Maybe dissaportal should be automatically active for a period of time after you log in? That way you can avoid people spying your account name on the portal as long as you log out quickly enough.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Shadowy Reality » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:30 pm

Liareth wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:55 am
Skibbles wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:38 am
I recognize there's no fault with the Admins on this, and probably no easy solution. It's just sad.
I've also logged on the wrong account before. It sucks. Maybe dissaportal should be automatically active for a period of time after you log in? That way you can avoid people spying your account name on the portal as long as you log out quickly enough.
This also solves the 'issue' of people tracking quarter and shop refreshes accurately as the owner can just login and logout without showing up.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by The Rambling Midget » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:06 pm

Liareth wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:55 am
I've also logged on the wrong account before. It sucks. Maybe dissaportal should be automatically active for a period of time after you log in? That way you can avoid people spying your account name on the portal as long as you log out quickly enough.
That'd also be really nice for anyone who needs to refresh a disguise on a reset or server transition.
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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Gouge Away » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:44 pm

What’s the value of having the account name on there, anyway?

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Inordinate » Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:45 pm

+1 for an automated dissaportal functionality on login, similar to the sanctuary effect you already receive. Might be a touch too short if you use the same length as that but for a few minutes maximum seems reasonable.
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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Skibbles » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:52 am

Temporary dissaportal sounds like a good idea both for mistakes and quarter tracking. Rambling Midgets side benefit is awesome too!
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.

So we're very much on track.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Jaytega » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:56 pm

When I set out to build my portal scraper for Arelith, I had figured I wasn't the only one who had done it with a server history so long, I am just glad to finally have confirmation Im not the only one.

There is nothing exposed on the portal server that someone couldn't track themselves with pen and paper.

There is nothing the devs/DMs dont already have access to with their official server tools.
If you agree to use someone elses online service then you agree to their terms of use and it would be ignorant to think that your information is not being logged in some manner.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Gouge Away » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:13 pm

If you agree to use someone elses online service then you agree to their terms of use and it would be ignorant to think that your information is not being logged in some manner.
I have to argue that point. This is a small not-for-profit game built on community input so the "terms of use" are negotiable. This isn't Blizzard where it's their way or don't play.

I'm not anti-portal here at all, but Arelith being an all-volunteer server means we can discuss things like this and community opinion makes a difference. Don't tell people they aren't entitled to express their opinion.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Halibutthead » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:09 pm

Not to pick at (not very) old wounds, but the admin has expressed that arelith *is*, in fact, their way or don't play. They make the rules, we can talk about them, but this isn't a democracy.

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Re: Player Portal Privacy Problem

Post by Gouge Away » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:55 pm

I didn't say it was. But the dms, devs and admins are also players and we all have the potential to have that role ourselves if we put in the effort. Ultimately of course it's up to Irongron but he's always seemed like someone very reasonable who pays attention to player concerns and will even make changes he doesn't personally agree with.

These discussions do matter and it's not a place where you should be told not to express your opinion or that it can't change things, it happens all the time.

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