Divine Shield / Might

[a shrouded figure]

Am I alone in feeling like divine shield / divine light are almost painfully “clunky” to use in PVE? Losing two rounds for a few rounds of glory feels kinda meh. I know it’s all subjective but... my 10 cents lol

[Drowboy]

Having them be instant would be buckwild op tho

[Chosen Son]

They are half round actions if you are hasted. A starting cha of 16 will give you 9 rounds of divine shield/might when geared and buffed. Even allowing 6 seconds for activating both, you are left with 42 seconds, or 8 rounds to extract use out of them before you need to reapply.

[Hazard]

I agree that it feels meh. Not the kind of playstyle I enjoy, but the abilities are very powerful and useful and certainly don't need a buff or anything.

It's just something I'm not interested in playing around with.

[Ninjimmy]

Yeah, I can stomach losing two rounds for a real PVE slobberknocker beat down, would be pretty loony tunes to have them be instant.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

I don't think it's the abilities that are clunky, so much as NWN's UI and hotkeys.

If I could map abilities outside of the F1-F12, and approach those once-per-encounter abilities with more of a MOBA key layout, it'd be dope.

The problem is that we need to type. And I find it awkward to press the F1-keys, rather than click, which makes abilities like Divine Might/Shield feel more finnicky.

Maybe PvPsages have advice at how to circumvent hotkey UI design.

I also wish abilities that last for less than 1 turn got an overhaul, altogether, primarily because of how the pathing of NWN can undermine duration. Although being more generous with ability durations would open up a can of worms, for sure.

But then again, to flip it over, man oh man was I super jealous of Dex builds and their instant-action Blinding Speed in the latest epic battles of the previous DM event. Do you know the burden that is casting Divine Favour when the lag is oppressive? Holy moly.

[Ork]

I use divine shield and might frequently in combat. Action economy wise, if I am not getting hit and I am doing damage, it's almost always better not to use them- however against a boss or hard spawn I find myself tapping that F4 praying it gets off before my character gets bodied with a crit.

[a shrouded figure]

They’re actually /starting/ to feel like a trap on some characters that are already feat deprived. While I 100% agree that they would be too strong as instant actions, I don’t know how they would be changed to feel less crippling on the action economy. Maybe half their affect and give them instant? Limit to 1 or 2 round duration? Not sure.

There’s probably a decent argument to be made for a pure 30 or 27/3 Paladin skipping out on the divine feats altogether. I’m actually a little annoyed to be coming to this realization now... for how rarely I use them- they’re essentially a waste lol. Maybe it’s more of a PVP thing and I’m just a noob.

[Ork]

As harsh as this is going to sound, you're correct on your last statement. If you're trying to find a reason for PvE divine might and shield, but aren't encountering foes worthy of them- you're adventuring under or at level. When you start adventuring above level, you'll exhaust your turn undead per day quickly enough.

These are not trap feats and these are not underpowered feats.

[Scurvy Cur]

But then again, to flip it over, man oh man was I super jealous of Dex builds and their instant-action Blinding Speed in the latest epic battles of the previous DM event. Do you know the burden that is casting Divine Favour when the lag is oppressive? Holy moly.

This is pretty high up on my list of reasons that div might/shield builds should go dex at the moment. There are few downsides, statting for dex remains ludicrously easy, and the difference between might/shield builds with and without blinding speed is enormous.

That said, I think the answer is to adjust blinding speed down rather than improving might/shield. It's very important that these feats put some ramp up time on the builds that have them. They're otherwise very powerful.

Like Ork said, if you're not using them in pve, you're not pveing to your potential. And they're must-haves in pvp if you're cha-heavy.

[a shrouded figure]

So I definitely do see the logic in their use, and I probably just need to click them more. I’m just a bit spoiled from barbarian rage- and it’s throwing me off. Pausing to buff is a little traumatic right now.

[dallion43]

I don't think it's the abilities that are clunky, so much as NWN's UI and hotkeys.

If I could map abilities outside of the F1-F12, and approach those once-per-encounter abilities with more of a MOBA key layout, it'd be dope.

https://gofile.io/d/9okwzG

This is a very, very, basic portable exe remap(made via autohotkey)
F1-F12 remap to 1 to =(F10 == 0, F11 == -, F12 == =), Cntr+F1 => Cntr+1, Shift+F1 => Shift+1 (Etc)

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3895
Read the above link first. Some of the link is relevant except there is no:
a. ini file.
b. Keylist.txt.
c. Normal rebinding.
d. Don't try to use 1-10 to type :p. Use numlock numbers.
e. No rebinding to just abcd.

Crude rebinding can be done using Notepad+.
https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/v7.8.8/
Download, edit the exe via Notepad+, scroll down to line 13344 and change the LEFT side of the ::.
As long as you don't change the length of the line, you should be ok.
For example, +2::+F2 => +e::+F2. (When shift+e is clicked shift+F2 (from shift bar) is used.
+ == shift, ^ == Cntl.

Benefits? It works as is. 1-10 is more convenient then F1-F10, especially for secondary bars.
:: > variables from ini in terms of responsiveness under pressure(imho).

Full script pre-compiled by autohotkey:

#NoEnv ; Recommended for performance and compatibility with future AutoHotkey releases.
; #Warn ; Enable warnings to assist with detecting common errors.
SendMode Input ; Recommended for new scripts due to its superior speed and reliability.
SetWorkingDir %A_ScriptDir% ; Ensures a consistent starting directory.


#IfWinActive ahk_exe nwmain.exe
1::F1
2::F2
3::F3
4::F4
5::F5
6::F6
7::F7
8::F8
9::F9
0::F10
-::F11
=::F12
^1::^F1
^2::^F2
^3::^F3
^4::^F4
^5::^F5
^6::^F6
^7::^F7
^8::^F8
^9::^F9
^0::^F10
^-::^F11
^=::^F12
+1::+F1
+2::+F2
+3::+F3
+4::+F4
+5::+F5
+6::+F6
+7::+F7
+8::+F8
+9::+F9
+0::+F10
+-::+F11
+=::+F12

P.C
1. PvPsages
2. Edit:
I forgot, no more keyboard 1-0 from menu selections while this is on. If you intend to massively craft/enchant just close the exe temporary.

[ReverentBlade]

I feel like these would be in a good spot if they are -always- half round actions regardless of if you have haste or not.

[Might-N-Magic]

They are far too powerful to be anything quicker than what they are. The builds that utilize them are monsters as is.

The cost of power is wind-up.

[Nitro]

Div Might and shield definitely don't need a power-up in the form of skipping haste to power up.

[Hedgehog]

I've been long in the habit of having them casted just before I get into a fight or as soon as I see a mob.

[Bunnysmack]

As stated higher up, a lot of divine warriors using these feats try to take Blinding Speed explicitly so they can drop DS and DM in the same round (Blinding Speed is an instantaneous free action that grants haste on a cooldown). If you really want a non-clunky method: that's it. Otherwise, use a haste wand and dual cast them the following round.

That being said, I agree with the majority of replies here: DS and DM, along with the associated save-boosting class abilities that often accompany these feats, all work together to make some of the most powerful combatants in Arelith's power curve. Paladin and blackguard builds are really part of the top tier in terms of melee set ups for Arelith and they do /not/ need any more assistance (especially paladin; exclusive access to the best armor in the game, and a lot of custom boosts on top of a class that was already strong to start with).

Turning all your charisma into bonus damage that ignores DR and DS is really strong. Turning all your charisma into more dodge AC is also really strong. Having enough charisma to use these a BUNCH per rest is similarly strong.

[Jencent]

Wait... We really talk about to Buff most powerful feats in the game?

[a shrouded figure]

I don’t think anyone /really/ suggested buffing them. I was just saying that I don’t care for the play style of Divine builds because it felt clunky. If I was to change it- I would personally nerf the power of them and make them instant actions. But that’s just me- I wasn’t originally suggesting a change just asking if anyone else felt like me that they were awkward to use in PVE.

[Lexx]

Personally never felt they felt clunky. But then I always ensure i have some sort of haste on hand when playing divine/might shield builds to cut down on windup.

Even then I feel the windup is the price you pay for as others have said. Some of the most powerful feats a melee can have on the server.

[msterswrdsmn]

I personally don't feel like they're clunky either, though my usual tactic with these is to ambush from invisbility, with haste. Its very, very rare to find things that aren't bosses that last long against a hasted, divine power boosted assault on top of additional buffs and gear. God help me if I was some sort of DEX build that was actually designed to ambush things from stealth or with blinding speed.

The only "clunky" thing I run into with these feats is how they're relatively short lived, so in a pinch, I might have to reapply them mid-fight. Considering the benefits of these feats though (critting for triple digit damage or boosting my AC past 70) this is probably a very, very fair tradeoff.

[the grim yeeter]

Are we actually questioning divine shield's/might's value here now?

Just when you thought you'd seen it all on these forums.

[NPC Logger Number 2]

My personal opinion is that the duration of these abilities is just way too short. Less than a minute duration on the main class skill? What? Monks don't get less than a minute of wisdom AC. Needs a much shorter cooldown or longer duration I think.

[Xerah]

Main class skill? These are optional feats.

It also has no cooldown at all

[NPC Logger Number 2]

Main class skill? These are optional feats.

It also has no cooldown at all

I stand corrected, you are right. The duration still seems pretty short though.