Giving the Crafting System some Love; Recipe Suggestions

[miesny_jez]

heh.. seems I will be the dedicated Ncromancer on arelith forums

So my thought about the current crafting system is: first think about how it works.

Currently the disciplines which are most useful (my observation) could be shown in a list like this:
Alchemy - (a huge gap here) -> Tailoring -> Smithing -> Art - (a gap here) -> Carpentry -> Cooking(maybe a bit better with recent changes)

Now what is the reason for this situation:
1. Alchemy:
Obvious winner for usability / coin earning, and the reason for this comes from three groups of crafts in this discipline: The Essences, Skleens and Spell Components.
Take a look through the shops around the island.. You won't find any other Alchemy items in the shops. The reason for this is very simple Two of those groups represent CONSUMABLES which are used on a day-day basis. And as for the essences they are usable to a large number of items slots.. slots which will be changed very often through the lifetime of a character. So effectively the essences group could be treated like semi-consumable group.

So for the alchemy group: Its the consumables which drive this discipline.

2. Tailoring:
A typical item crafting discipline but it outclasses the Smiting easily by possible coin earnings. Why is that, lets take a look at the possible items we have:

• a) Light and Padded armors,
  b) Cloaks
  c) Boots
  d) Gloves
  e) Spell component pouches (which burn quite often by accident)
  f) a nice set of fixtures (flags, carpets)

The rest of the items doesn't really matter - they are very rarely used (again take a look at the shops).
Now we have here 4 item slots, with 3 of them universal across all of the classes. The armor slot is shared across all of high DX build characters which can be rogues, monks, mages, bards, warriors, .. the list goes on and on, You can basically include almost all of the classes into this category thanks to the fact that a high DX can be good both for a melee as for a ranged/magical char.

In each of the craft able item group there is at least one high-grade item (+3 enchantments), and also the Tailoring discipline is the discipline which produces the highest amount of mid-to-endgame +STATS items.

It has easily craft-able(mat wise) fixtures: FLAGS, which are very often used to state territory claims, armies, etc = are used in multiples by one person.

On top of that it has semi-usable: spell component pouches which mages tend to brake quite often

So for the Tailoring group: it is its universality which places it high plus as a bonus we have semi-usables and generally mutli-use fixtures

3. Smithing
Now smithing is troublesome, it is whole item craft able discipline, also ingots are used as components in various different crafts. So from smithing the usable items would be:

• a) Weapons and Shields
  b) Ingots
  c) Armor
  d) Fixtures

well.. and that's really all there is. The majority of recipes in smithing are strictly slot-items, but the only universal class/build slot is a) -weapon and shields. The weapons especially as typically one person will carry multiples of weapons and only one shield. The armors are very class/build restricted - only non-magical St builds, Greensteel armor exluded. But the problem with Greensteel is its weight - primary casters in general will not dump their STAT points into strength, only hybrid casters like Bards may be interested in Greensteel, therefore limiting the potential target group. As for item quality its early-endgame.. similar to Tailoring, but there is one huge difference - no base items for enchanting.

From my experience as a smith one of the greatest source of continuous income were ingots specifically Silver, Brass and Gold. But lets demystify the reason for this by showing the discipline in which were they used: Brass (Alchemy), Gold (ALCHEMY), Silver (ALCHEMY!) - The trend is damn obvious.

With the addition of Figther bonuses the number of classes/builds interested in acquiring sets of new weapons/armors has been cut out quite significantly. Any build with FIghter 15 or more will give better bonuses then top crafts in Smithing. And not even looking at clerics which can buff all of their items to +5 quality. The smithing (items) is essentially left with builds which have minimal fighter levels or none at all.

Yes the mastery damask weapons cost a leg and an arm.. but their cost is at the same time their limiting factor - You won't sell a lot of them.

The fixtures.. doesn't really count, a limted number of craft stations which are also available to make from other disciplines.. or expensive to make (mat wise) use-limited fixtures. I guess the candelabra is the only one which is outstanding in this group.

So in summary for smithing what drives its demand is: Interaction with Alchemy and weapon market (which shrunk quite heavy)

What are the limits: no usables, no class/build - universality (only weapons - 1 slot), no enchanting available base items.

3. Art Crafting
Art is essentially a hit or miss dependent on what is happening on the server currently. The craftable items(necklace slot only) in majority are just weak. The only outstanding ones are: Ruby Necklace, Greater Holy and Chieftains Necklace (stat and skill wise), the druid one is fine..but if the druids shifts he will loose the bonus slots making it annoying to even threatening if You forget about that. The one which really drives this discipline is: Fixtures.. and Gems and of course spell components. So in terms of usability we have:

• Fixtures
• Gems
• Spell components
• Necklaces (very limited)

The fixtures is the best part of this discipline.. but the problem with them is: They are heavy, the are hard to make (require heavy materials).. there usage is limited by current IC events. Meaning unless there will be something interesting happening which requires fixtures.. You won't find a lot of continuous customers for them.

And of course we have gems.. but again what drives the gem market, where are they used?- You guessed it! Its our number one consumables discipline - ALCHEMY.

In terms of consumables in the Art discipline we have literally: spell components.. and portal lenses. The portal lenses currently are horrendous.. for the cost of materials required to make one of them You could easily buy 5+ portal lenses from the vendors.
As for the spell components in Art they require two things: Copper ingots (a smith, copper and coal required), Malachite (malachite drops or deposit and 1 point in art). Whereas the alchemy ones are Glass (coal + sand and 1 in art), Greenstone (drops or 1 point in art). Obviously the alchemy ones are simply better.. You can do them all by yourself without investing into the smithing.

So in summary what drives art is: Fixtures.. and interaction with Alchemy though gems

Limits: horrendous recipe for portal lenses, less optimal spell component recipe, RP/event dependence

4. Carpentry
Carpentry situation is very smiliar to Art - it's primary fixture focused discipline with added craftable items. We have:

• a) Fixtures.. a lot of useful ones here
  b) Magic staffs
  c) various Bows and Crossbows

That would be all basically. It's very smiliar to Art.. but we are missing a key point here which allows the Art to be better.. interaction with our top consumable trade - Alchemy! The carpentry discipline doesn't have any consumables (well the arrows count somewhat but a smith can simply make them better - You will need the ingots anyway) nor has any items used as materials in consumables. The only slot items which are available are Magical staffs, which are heavily class restricted - only mages/sorcerers will be interested and Bows/Crossbows. The bows/crossbows in theory would be great - smiliar to Smithing and its weapon focus.. but the issue here is that the last time I checked the server, there wasn't armies of archers walking around on it.. quite the opposite everyone is running with their favorite melee weapon. Meaning the interest for ranged weapons will be very small.

In summary then what drives the Carpentry: Fixtures.. well and that's all

Limits are: Lack of consumables/interaction with consumables discipline, heavy class/build limit oc craftable items.

And finally last man standing in the line:

5. Cooking
Cooking is definitely our consumable focused discipline. The example of Alchemy shows that it should be the most interesting craft, but unfortunately currently it is not. In cooking we have:

• a) Healing Kits
  b) Potions
  c) Food
  d) Seeds
  e) Poisons (IC-info needed)
  f) crafting ingredients

Now Healing Kits... that is currently the staple income for this craft. Healing kits present a typical day-to-day use consumable which is not limited by any class or build - everyone needs them. In overall I think the recipes for the kits +1 to +7 are in a good place currently, the problematic one is the +10. If You check the common pricing for +7 and +10 kits, the +10 are almost double the price.
The problem originates from two sources: Salt and Big Meat. Salt is heavy to carry and requires a lot of muscle power/walking around to get 14 pieces of salt just for 2x sets of healing kits +10. Personally I think the amount of salt needed could be lowered to 5 for the +10, but this one is not of primary concern. The main driving element is the 7x Big Meat. The Big Meat is rare and hard to come by.. and of course its heavy as hell to carry. Assuming You get 1 Big Meat from a bear kill.. means You need 7 Bears which drop it for one kit. And truly saying I have never fought with more then 4 bears during one adventure/mats gathering trip, I am referring to a trip which would take at least 2 hours of my playtime.
No, gathering Big Meat is not fun at all and none who values their time will want to use that time to gather Big Meat. The simplest and absolutely most reasonable solution for that would be to make Big Meat out of 2x Medium Meat, it would really resolve the tedious process of gathering Big meats.

Potions.. now this should really be the staple of cooking discipline.. and should be the most profit making part of the trade disciplines. With the recent changes to 5 potions per craft and removal of various potions from vendors it may finally take off.. but I am not seeing that really happening in the shops. Lets try to answer why is that:

First of all the question is have You ever used a Cure Wounds potion from a dedicated cook? I bet that for 98% of the server population the answer will be: NO. Why it's very simple - not enough healing done through one potion. Not only the kits perform better.. but also don't provoke an attack of opportunity. There is really no sense for a cook to gather materials and craft the Cure Moderate/Serious wounds. This both should be simply removed and switched with a Cure Critical potion.. which at least is useful in the level ranges of 5 - 15 (depending on the class). Keep the recipe and DC simple as for the serious ones so the price of the potion can be put low.
NOTE: Potions are FASTER then kits to use

Antidote - thanks to change that removed them from vendors this is really a good one to make now.. I would definetly by some of them.. if I would find them that is. And why are we not seeing it? The reason for this is probably here: Gem Dust(Fire Agate). Fire Agates are not very common deposits on the island, I most often see malachites, greenstones, aventurines. .. Fire Agates, from the top of my head (playing on the server good 2 years now) I couldn't list even one spot with that deposit.

Ironguts - none will ever need that, this one should be burned in fire and kicked out from the recipies.

Clarity - with the change to glass and amount of potions, this one is finely worth to make, I think its in a perfect spot currently

Invisibility - the potion is easier to craft then its component (Mojo).. no crafter will waste his time for this, plus the Invis potions are available from vendors. Useless recipe

Death Armor - material check: Spider silk.. its rare to find.. and even rarer if it is in fact where it should be as it is heavily camped by tailors. Additionally to that the Death armor potion is not an interesting option from a player perspective - it provides a very minor boost, the visual is nice.. but that would be all really. I doubt that it would be interesting even if the spider silk would be removed. Should be exchanged with something more interesting.. Silence/Darkness/Ultravision anyone? *glances about the room full of risen hands*

Barkskin - this potion has THE potential, its useful across all of the levels.. unfortunately again spider silk .. and on top of that Hardwood both of those materials are hard to come by.. available only in medium to high level zones. Drop the hardwood to softwood and remove that spider silk. The potion has to compete with a barkskin wand.. not be totally shadowed by it.

Sweetberry Wine - the ideal potion as it is currently. The recipe is just spot on. Easy to find mats, lowish DC, and a great effect which is usable across all of Your char levels.

Heal potion - our new addition.. bet a lot of people didn't notice. I think it has too much ingredients required as it is currently (double dust), not sure about the required flowers. Too early to say anything about it really.

This concludes the (current) potion list in the cooking.

The other craftable items in the cooking list do seem fine - reasonable DCs and requirements.. but of course all of them are one-time only fixtures and ingredients so You cannot expect them to be the major source of Cooking focused crafter.

In summary then what drives the Cooking: Healing Kits (+1 - +7)!, Clarity Potions, Sweetberry Potions, Seeds

Limits are: very poor potion recipies/non-interesting potions available

EDIT: Finished the Cooking

[miesny_jez]

Now... someone could ask where am I getting with all of this?

Let's compare the crafting system which we have with other established MMORPGs (Arelith is an MMo.. a different one but yes it is). I have been playing WoW and GW2.. also SWoToR (minimally) so I will base my opinion on the first two.

In WoW the economy flows around (from highest to lowest coin earnings): gear modifications(enchants, slots, gems) - consumables, potions - consumables, food - (consumables), character build modifications (inscriptions), raw ingredients, items, vanity items and ingredients(pets, gear-models.. etc etc.).

In GW2 the economy flows around: gear modifications (Color Dyes, gems) - consumables, endgame artifacts(You need a lot of luck to get those otherwise) ,Food -consumables, items for looks (items specially made because of how they look, the model can be then applied to any item You have) - consumables, items for mechanical power, raw ingredients, vanity items and ingredients (events, pets, etc...)

Both of those MMORPG games have completely different setting, completely different mechanics (gear progression vs story/character progression) and both of them have a very good economy driven by the players.
If You take a look at the first crafting items which drive the economy in those games You see this: CONSUMABLES.

And the economy in Arelith (Alchemy) confirms this.. its the every day to day consumables which drive the gold economy of an MMORPG and additional note to that consumables which are either universal to all of the builds/classes or applicable to universal item slots. Both of the examples have also gear modifications in front of the list. What glues us to the the MMOs games is the sense of the progression. Either level, gear or RP and that will be universal across all of the MMOs You can play.

Therefore a successful economy in a MMO-type game should be one designed with the goal of working in one or all of the progression aspects in the game (level, gear, RP) plus the day to day consumables.

Now where does Arelith economy stand currently:

level
- Level restricted items available.
- Higher level chars earn more coins through adventuring then low levels

verdict: Good

gear
- Gear progression available through the Enchantment basin mostly as only this method allows full customization to player/character needs
- The crafting systems allows for different gear-focused builds but does not provide bases for all of the classes uni-formally.
- Crafting of Jewellery literally non-existent or very poor item choices, no bases available for further enchanting to customize
- Most of the universal (char/builds) item slots covered by one crafting discipline - Tailoring

Verdict: Needs redesign/work

The enchantment pool addition is one of the best things I've seen in terms of gear progression. It covers everything what a player can need and on top of that its universal across all of the levels/builds. Unfortunately enchantment pool is not a "crafter discipline", it requires dedicated build and lots of time(xp) for one to specialize in it. Its also hard to sell Your work in this case as making items without order is a hit or miss.

Now the item crafting disciplines.. We have 8 universal item slots in NWN (Head, Cloak, Gloves, Belt, Boots, Necklace, Ringx2) and 3 class/build restricted slots (R hand, L hand, Armor). For those item slots we have: Tailoring (4 Universal/1 class restrict), Smithing (1 Uni/3 CR), Artist (3 Uni/0 CR), Carpentry (0 Uni/1 CR). Surprise ! The slot numbers exactly follows the crafting disciplines usability list which I analyzed in my earlier post.

Of course we have a limitation here originating from the fact that we are in a semi-real fantasy world so carpenter should not know how to make steel armors but the majority of Universal items slots are taken by Tailoring. Wheres the second uni-slot discipline (Artist) does not offer comparatively good item list available for crafting.

Therefore the slot item crafting disciplines should be redesigned (Ideas later)

RP
- customizable RP-affecting items available for players of all builds/characters

Verdict: Very Good
Arelith is really good with it (as expected for a RP-focus setting). I think the current RP-enabling item crafting disciplines are in very good position.

day to day consumables
- day to day consumables include: wands, scrolls, potions, skleens, spell components, temporary essences
- semi day to day consumables: spell comp puches, permanent essences, gonne slugs
- universal consumables: temporary essences, permament essences, skleens, portal lenses, Attunement potions
- build restricted consumables: wands, potions, scrolls, spell components, gonne slugs, spell comp puches

- gear modification consumables focused in Alchemy
- universal consumables focused in Alchemy(Skleens, portal lenses) or unavailable in crafting(temp essences)
- build restricted consumables best created by non-craft discipline focused chars (Craft Wand/Potion/Scroll Feats)
- Consumables craftable by the consumable-focused discipline(Cooking) either unoptimzed recipes (barkskin), limited usability (sweetberry wine, clarity) or simply unneeded (Ironguts, maybe Death Armor).

Verdict: Poor
This has to be seriously redesigned. Cooking especially.



THE OVERALL CONCLUSION OF THE ANALYSIS OF THE CURRENT CRAFTING SYSTEM:

What we are missing here is quite obvious: Consumables available through crafting.

And crafting I mean here not a feat-based one as this is very class restricted. A consumable crafting systems which is available to the player regardless of the character build. A system which can produce items which are used in day to day adventuring/RPing.

[miesny_jez]

IDEAS how to change the current system:

The system should be similar to this proposed graphic to enable a healthy, ongoing crafting economy:



Additionally to that each of the crafting disciplines should have a minimal amount of day-to-day use consumables which would not be limited by any character build. The traditional Wand/Potions/Scrolls crafters would still be advantageous to such a system as they could craft the items independently of level restrictions

Therefore keeping in mind the whole analysis which I've done about the current state of the crafting system I propose the following to fix up the crafting system, to rebalance it and make it a worthwhile investment for anyone to consider a RP crafter character

CHANGES:
General idea
The crafting disciplines should allow to make crafts within three different categories of usages: CONSUMABLES, RP-related, ITEMS. All of the crafts should be character level balanced both in DC as well in materials required.

• The consumables group would
  cover everything from item enchantment to character enhancements both temporary and permanent

Alchemy
Cooking
Carpentry
Art
Smithing
Tailoring

NEW RECIPES:

1. Consumables
Tailoring

• Fix-kits(stack-able) - a piece of material which can be used to fix Your cloth items during adventure without the need of a tailoring station/tailor. few categories DC based (poor(items up to DC10),common(items up to DC15),good(items up to DC26),superior(items up to DC37))
• Net of holding(stack-able) - a one time use item which would temporary (6 in game hours) reduce the weight of any item in the characters inventory by 20/40/60%
• One time use bedroll(stack-able) - a LIGHT (0.5s) use item which would allow the character to rest without the risk of being ambushed while resting

Smithing

• Lockpicks! - no description needed I think

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      +3, DC15, CP: 10, mats: Bronze ingot, coal
      +6, DC20, CP: 14 mats: Iron ingot, coal
      +9, DC24, CP: 19 mats: Steel ingot, coal
      +12, DC35, CP: 120 mats: Greensteel ingot, coal

• Armor plating - on use item which would cast Stoneskin/Greater Stoneskin on the user when used

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      normal plating (stoneskin) - DC20, CP: 30, mats: Lead ingot, medium cloth, 2x Coal
      Reinforced plating (greater stoneskin) - DC35, CP: 120, mats: Lead ingot, medium leather, 2x Coal

• Sharpening stones - Temporary (physical) increase to weapon damage, non stacking with temporary essences +2/+3/+4. The idea is to use the sharpening stones or essences depending on the enemy resistances

Art

• (Revised) Portal Lenses - just please change that recipe

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  DC18, CP: 25, mats: 1x Glass, 1x Mojo, 1x Iron Ingot, Gem: Fluorspar

• (Revised)Spell components: DC 15, materials the same, and unify the alchemy/art model used for them
• Displacement Dust - as in Suggestions, casts Displacement with some usable Caster Level

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   DC15, CP10, mats: 1x spell component, 1x small cloth

• Greater Invisibility Dust - as in Suggestions, casts Improved Invisibility on user

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  DC20, CP: 35, mats: 1x Invisibility potion, 2x spell component, gem dust: Alexandrite

• Glitter Dust - as in Suggestions, casts Shield spell on user

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   (Shield spell, CL - 10) - DC20, CP: 35, mats: 1x glass, 2x spell component, gem dust: malachite

• Focus Dust - as in Suggestions, casts True Strike on user

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  DC35, CP: 60, mats: 1x glass, 2x spell component, gem dust: Sapphire, 5x Clarity potion, 5x Death Armor potion

• Marble Guardian and Spell warder - as in suggestion, defensive on-use fixtures

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   Spell warder (fixture - 5 lbs, hp: 150, purpose would be to draw hostile magical effects onto itself (or one directed dispel) - a -guard script could be adopted to that easily - the fixture guards automatically all from the users party, range: huge), DC 35, CP: 60, mats: 2x glass, 1x Garnet, 2x copper ingot, 2x Heal potion
  Marble guardian (fixture - 5lbs, hp: 150, purpose would be to draw hostile melee attacks onto itself, range: huge), DC: 35, CP: 60, mats: 2x glass, 1x Topaz, 2x copper ingot, 2x Heal potion

Carpentry

• wooden toys - summons a henchmen-type non combat summon, for all of our pet-lovers
• shield reinforcement - ghostly visage cast on user
• armor spikes - Death armor/ maybe even wounding whispers on high craft level
• armor isolation - Resist Elements/Protection from Elements spell on user
• Balista - a deploy able fixture, shoots Fireball/Improved Fireball(the higher craft DC version) on use, 3 charges

Alchemy

• Temporary essences - I think everyone is waiting for that, as in suggestion. Temporary essences with damage-type chosen by the crafter, do not require gems.. only lower level dusts to be made. DC and type of dust needed depend on strength of the essence

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     DC 12 (+2) - crafting points: 10 (mats: Magic Blood, gem dust: Greenstone, empty wine bottle)
     DC 15 (+1d4) - crafting points: 14 (mats: Magic Blood, gem dust: Aventurine, Glass bottle)
     DC 20(+1d6) - crafting points: 20 (mats: Magic Blood, gem dust: Amethyst, Glass bottle)
     DC 35(+2d4) - crafting poins: 45 (materials: Dragon Blood, Magic Blood, gem dust: Sapphire, gem dust: Ruby, gem dust: Diamond, Glass bottle

--------------------TO BE COMPLETED, I RUN out of time -----------------------------------------------
Cooking
I think the list of available cooking consumable items should be greatly expanded here with a focus on items which are useful across many levels of a character. Therefore having that in mind I propose the following:

• Bulls Strength Potions (ST)

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  DC 12 - crafting mats: 1x Glass Bottle, 1x Lead Ingot, 1x Blood of Magic Creature

• Cat's Grace Potions (DX)
• Owl's Wisdom Potions (WIS)
• Fox's Cunning Potions (INT)
• Eagle's Splendor (CH)
• Bear's Endurance(CON)

[miesny_jez]

2. Item crafts
3. Discipline focus bonuses

[JediMindTrix]

I would love to see certain metals carrying certain properties aside from the scaling resistances that also make them unenchantable and therefor in the long-term, kind of plain and boring.

I would love to see these metal materials receiving 'slots'. In these slots would go crafting-matrix created runes that permanently apply an effect. Example: Mithril get's two slots. Crafter A places runes created by Crafter B into the Mithril suit, giving it a permanent +1 Strength Bonus and +4 to Discipline respectively. Example: Adamantine gets 1 slot, but also carries the property of enabling a single free enchantment in the basin from a character with Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment.

[Durvayas]

If nothing else, Carpentry needs a complete overhaul for bows.

The first bow you can craft can be bought from an NPC for less than 60 gold. Utterly pointless to craft.
The second, called 'masterly' has a very worthless +1 Mighty on it.
The third called the 'powerful' bow, has a measly +1AB, 1d10 Massive Criticals, mighty +4. The +4 mighty is nice if you're running a STR pumped AA or ranger, but is otherwise worthless.
After that the bows actually become worth making, and the final longbow in the crafting list is really the only one worth the effort, time, and material to craft.

Some things to note. I've played three characters that are explicitly bowyers, so here are some observations for you all.

1) The only crossbow anyone ever wants is a gonne. Rapid shot is a world better than rapid reload, and crossbow is gimped so bad on Arelith no one ever bothers using them except for the drow crossbow with manticore spikes. Crossbows are slow, and small crossbows are weak and slow. Mechanically they're as useful as daggers(of which shortswords can do everything they do, but better). Explained below.

2)Nobody buys crossbows but the drow, and even then only half the time, and only for flavor. AA does not work for crossbows, and the archer path for rangers not only made crafting arrows completely pointless since people on the path can spawn better after each rest, but can sell them too. Given the fact nobody buys crossbows, nobody buys bolts either. The only market that might have bought crafted arrows was given the ability to spawn them. Brilliant.

2) Shortbows have no demand, because the only people that need them are the short races, and virtually none of those groups make archers, because the only really effective archer build is an AA.

3)Longbows are the only bows that sell. This is a no brainer because they're better than shortbows in every way, and work with rapid shot and AA builds. This is the AA bow. And if you see an elf or drow holding one, its a safe bet they're an AA.

Beyond making the last bow in each series of bows, carpentry is only good for... making furniture. The magic staffs are alright, but very niche.

TLDR: Absolutely none of the ammunition is worth dumping the hundreds of points in to craft thanks to the archer path, bows with +1 AB are worthless when everyone is using +3(greensteel lvl 9+) weapons for melee, and there is no incentive to even consider a crossbow unless it's a gonne, because their dps is trash compared to their bow counterparts.

If you take carpentry, you want to be a cabinetmaker, because furniture is the only way you're ever going to get any real utility out of it. It needs improvement.