Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
10/10
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
If we were in 4.0 the drow pantheon would consist entirely of Lolth, Vhaeraun, and Elistreaee. Because that very noticably was changed. Kiriansalee, selvetarm, and Zinzerena are still a thing, and there are several other deities that would not be available.Dinosaur Space Program wrote:
No, they aren't actually. Some of of them are from 4.0 when it comes to source material. Most notably fey related things. A number of areas of the Forgotten Realms never got an update in 3.5 or after and so use older source material that people have also added to the server. It's a mixed bag. And that is Entirely in fluff and setting material.
There are also posts on the old forums that support my assertion that we are in the 3.5 timeline and our deities come from it. Is there a sprinkling of 4.0? Perhaps, but by and large Arelith is rooted firmly in 3.5 setting-wise... late 3.5 if you consider that Bane and Cyric are both gods at the same time here.
But on the topic at hand... I wish PvA worked properly because of how absolutely broken fear auras are, and low levels have absolutely no protection against them except for chugging a clarity pot they can barely afford in reasonable quantities and hoping whatever they fight is dead before it runs out.
At least before there was some sort of lasting immunity to that thick helping of cheese the NwN engine handed us, whereas now the spell is nearly useless and used only to boost saves and then have clarity wanded on top of it.
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
I didn't like the PfA change at first, either- but clarity is a level three spell that, without the change, is absolutely WORTHLESS in the face of PfA and MCAA.
5 rounds of immunity +1 round/caster level is extremely beneficial against those groups of mobs that spam will save spells.
Like PfA, it also can't be breached. Unlike PfA, it can be cast on your allies at range, and it only requires somatic components to cast, meaning you can cast it even if you are silenced or deafened.
As the final icing on the cake, you can't get around it by making your character (or the monster spawns) neutral in alignment on the moral axis.
-Faiths and Pantheons (c)2002
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Celestia Silverarms
Karynn Eldafire
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
We can't forget that although the spells do provide similar results, they are meant for different situations. PfE exists to help throughout the whole trip, clarity exists for getting by that one tough fight, and Mind Blank exists for people who want full protection for the whole trip. Given that it's a level 1, 3 and 5(8 for aoe) spell respectively it seems like a fairly even and balanced progression.
The big thing to keep in mind here: Sure we lost a lot when this change was made, but I found myself asking "Is it really fair/fun/balanced to have mind immunity against more than half of the servers NPCs for the entire trip from a level 1 spell?" I personally don't think so.
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
In my experience, the spell of clarity is something only the designated party mage ever has slotted, and only ever will use once the party has not only engaged something with a fear aura, but when party members are already being feared. The rest of the time, everyone is told to bring potions because it simply doesn't last long enough for a caster to bother slotting it for anything less than a dire emergency where its retreat or die.
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
That's a big mistake, since clarity doesn't remove fear after it's already been applied.Durvayas wrote:In my experience, the spell of clarity is something only the designated party mage ever has slotted, and only ever will use once the party has not only engaged something with a fear aura, but when party members are already being feared.
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
the spell was annoying for evil players (likely also good) that it was so damned easy to counter them just with one lvl 1 spell.
also to add to the 3.5 didnt they just change the harm and heal spells to 3.5 also?
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
My point was, generally, that I don't mind discussions on spell balance in general; everyone's got a different idea of what is balanced and what isn't. What I do not like is claims that we are "supposed to be operating a 3.5e system" and that as a result, anything less is shortchanging us somehow. Argue that PfA is too weak because the bonus isn't significant all you want, and all I will do is disagree with you, and say that +5 will saves are fine for a level 1 spell.
Argue that we need 10 minutes per level of full mind spell immunity because "That's what gigaschatten intended us to have" and I will probably wonder what form of temporary insanity you had when you were posting. I will occasionally be blunt about pointing this out, but that's just how it's going to go.
Edit: Also, harm/heal are only quasi 3.5e right now. Arelith scales both these spells all the way up to Caster Level 30 providing 300 damage/healing, and disallows a saving throw. 3.5e caps them both at 150, and allows a will save for half against the damage. I'd argue that the 3.5 versions got nerfed too hard, and we're sitting at a good balance on those spells right now.
@Durvayas: No, you don't need PfA to provide mind immunity, unless you somehow forgot that will saves are a thing. Also, the Arelith drow pantheon precisely matches the drow pantheon in my 3.0 FR Faiths and Pantheons book, which matches the 3.5e faiths and pantheons book. This is also true for all of the surface gods, with the exception of the addition of some 4.0 entities, like QoAaD. This is because the deities are the same across 3.0 and 3.5, the only thing that changed were some of the mechanics.
Except that pre-nerf, fear auras, or at least the strong ones you actually had to worry about, were not affected by PfA, due to a specific mechanical exepmption. The number of times I saw parties wipe because they though PfA would save them from a dragon fear aura was both satisfying and delightful.But on the topic at hand... I wish PvA worked properly because of how absolutely broken fear auras
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
I just looked at the script resource and PfA and CfA are both hour duration. Circle just has that nasty AoE Bug.
I also like the change. However it has stopped me from preparing it/taking it. Just no longer find it as beneficial as other schools of that circle and when mind saves are heavy I'd just much rather use lesser mind blank.
I feel that 12 mins is about right for the spell. And bull's strength/cat's grace and the like last way to long from a wand.
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Any alteration of the zoo buffs will be a pretty huge thing and I really would recommend against it. Not only would it require rebalancing all of the magic item creation costs, but it's effectively a very big nerf to slot-preparing casters, a buff to infinite casters (as if they need them), and a MASSIVE nerf to non-casters.Morderon wrote:I fell that 12 mins is about right for the spell. And bull's strength/cat's grace and the like last way to long from a wand.
plz dont
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
dont scare me like that darlingMorderon wrote:They're not being changed. More so a comment that just because PfA doesn't last 90 mins RL time doesn't mean the duration is terrible.
House Freth: Reference Information
House Claddath: Reference Information
"What's a heretic?": a guide to religious schism terminology
Irongron wrote:4. No full screen images of the NWN gnome model (might frighten the children)
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
If I can find one of decent PDF quality, I'll link it up. A quick search didn't find many active hostings, though.CragOrion wrote: EDIT: Can someone please link me to a 3.0 PHB? I only have access to the 3.5
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Celestia Silverarms
Karynn Eldafire
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
MCAA is/has been looked at by Sincra. Whether the code we sent in is implemented (if it works with the rest of the server code, though Sinc is up for adjusting it to do so if needed) is up to Irongron and his team!CragOrion wrote:you guys mentioned there were fixes for the aura bug that messes up MCAA. Anyone know where to find it so we can make a quick and painless suggestion to staff to put it in?
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Nope. Eilistraee was killed by Halisstra Melarn, the Lady Penitent, tricked by Lolth, as she inhabited Quilé Veladorn as an avatar. She had already had Vhaeraun killed. As of 5.0 they are both alive again, but it's not known in what state or how they have changed if they have.Durvayas wrote:
If we were in 4.0 the drow pantheon would consist entirely of Lolth, Vhaeraun, and Elistreaee. Because that very noticably has changed
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Arelith is officially at 3.0e, though I've introduced bits of 4e flavour here and there where I liked it.
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Guessing pretty much the fey lore is the 4.0ed, and wait what I thoguth was 3.5ed or you now officially 3.5 ed is invalid when comes to FR lore for FR?Mithreas wrote:There is code in there to deal with the area bug, though it's evidently not working if this thread is to be believed.
Arelith is officially at 3.0e, though I've introduced bits of 4e flavour here and there where I liked it.
Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
That doesn't mean we won't appropriate bits of it here or there, but you should assume 3.0 rather than 3.5 wherever the two are in conflict.
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Re: Fix the Prot vs. Alignment please
Cool, thanks for the official stance on it been a lot of confusion between players on the server.Mithreas wrote:Yes.
That doesn't mean we won't appropriate bits of it here or there, but you should assume 3.0 rather than 3.5 wherever the two are in conflict.