Suggestion Discussion: Adding More Drow Guildhouses

[Durvayas]

Back in the heyday of Udos Droxun, and more recently, when Udos was a ruin, there used to be enough guild houses around to accomadate drow house RP comfortably.

Presently, there is only one(maybe two if you count the shipyards.) The sharps effectively has two for lesser race RP(grondhouse, and the goblin caves)

My suggestion is to add 1-2 more 'guildhouses/towers' to the devil's table district to encourage more drow house RP. running a faction out of a single storage chest is unfair to those people playing matrons, but also a logistical nightmare. Having more guildhouses in the table would allow for centralized factions without penalizing their leaders(since giving someone a key to the door is also giving them a key to the house chest.), as well as making it possible to house a faction under one roof, rather than having, say, five drow from a single house occupying five different quarters all over the table, depriving non-aligned drow characters from having quarters there. It makes more sense for those in a 'house' to live communally in a house like old times.

Alternatively, put a 'drow' style guildhouse at the outpost so a drow house could take up residence there, or add a guildhouse to the colloseum district to breathe some life into that area, because as it is right now no one has any reason to go there. Separating them might actually serve as a better idea, because then each house could project their power in their own 'territory' and encroach upon eachother.

/discuss your thoughts on the idea.

[Sazu]

We sort of discussed this in the Arelith is too big thread. But since this is more specific here's my take.

I think there's should be three guildhouses in each district, to properly represent three councilors who theoretically could have guilds or factions assisting them. The goblin caves isn't really a faction house... its just a cave with housing areas, all of which were taken over by goblins.

As for the drow guildhouse in the Outpost, I am totally and completely opposed to the suggestion. There's a lot more to the UD than just drow. I AM for more housing located in the Outpost however.

I am opposed to having a drow guildhouse in the arena. Why should the drow get the entire arena? In fact I'd put simply more housing but also have another way of entering the coliseum that doesn't involve going through the Devil's Table. In fact... I would make it, 'The Coliseum District' which wouldn't be controlled by any of the current districts. The Coliseum area and it's housing should be much like the East and West Wheels, where the homes there cannot be released by the councilors.

I think there's should be more housing, period. While I understand the DMs/Devs wanted the scenario to be dog eat dog. But the truth is the battle to grab homes has become completely OOC and has nothing to do with any IC conflict. And as Durvayas says, most houses around are in fact owned by many members of one faction. It wouldn't be something horrendous if there was more housing areas around.

I don't think the housing should have their own separate areas because then it completely alienates the rest of the server. The reason Andunor exists was to promote integration, so that rules out the idea of large separate spaces.

I think more housing and more storage spaces overall would make things much better(not that it isn't good).

[Durvayas]

The idea I put forward of having houses in the colosseum district and outpost were more to promote a possible turf war dynamic among drow factions. While there are other races besides the drow in the UD, nobody does in-fighting on nearly the scale of them. Anything to promote it is a good thing, lest they do what the lesser races do and unite unilaterally on the basis of race, at which point they risk the political balance of the UD server by dint of being the largest individual racial group(though combined, the sharps outnumber them). Keeping them balkanized is as much an enforcement of canon lore as it is balance between the political forces in the UD, plus it'd keep things interesting.

Personally, I feel the colloseum feels out of place being attached to the devil's table in its entirety. The whole structure feels wrong to me. Andunor was built around jhared's trade post, which had a high quality arena in it that had more of a thunderdome, gritty UD feel to it than a roman colloseum. It feels very out of place, like it belongs in the sharps or the slave pit, but thats an aesthetic opinion. Regardless, that district is in dire need of foot traffic. There are shops there, but they keep getting abandoned because they don't make any money. The place is a slum.

I do agree on your point that the sharps could use another guildhouse or two. In fact, the goblin caves make for a good candidate.
The goblin caves are not a guildhouse per-se, but it may as well be. Its been used by one faction (the oogooboogoo gobbos) since before 74AR, has storage chests in each room, and all the fixtures of a guildhouse. The only thing that seperates it from being a functioning guildhouse is the lack of a front door that someone is paying to keep locked. Thats literally it.

On the whole, I'm for the idea of neutral guildhouses, even if one per placed in the east and west wheel. Unclaimed territory is territory any given faction can try to project power over. The one thing I'd like is for them to be newbie accessible. If someone under level 7 cannot reach a guildhouse, they wont join that faction simply due to accessibility issues.

Speaking of guildhouses in the east and west wheel... I feel like that blacksmith who takes up that while building next to the spider's web is a complete waste. There is another blacksmith only 70ft away inside the hub, so its a waste of a building. If any structure in andunor is prime real estate to be converted to a guildhouse, I'd say that is a good spot. What do you think sazu?

[Sazu]

Ok my stance on your points is this:

First off the blacksmith's place being canned I am 100% in agreement with. It's simply redundant and wasted space that could used more efficiently and to the player's gain. Instead it's just a waypoint for new players(which to be honest, how many real new players do we actually get?)

Neutral guildhouses I also am for, as all the guildhouses are either in one district or another.

There' no real need for drow guildhouses outside the devil's table cause in fact the devil's table wasn't even made solely for the drow in the first place. It was simply taken over by the drow and no one has contested that point... well... EVER.

DO NOTE I have played a drow for many years. I also have read every novel that exists that pertains to life in the underdark so hear me out.

First off is that infighting can be done and kept within the what is now and always will be, the drow designated living area, the Devil's Table. Does their in-fighting really need to be dragged out into the whole players base through way of geographic location? Not really. The drow will have no issues hiring mercenaries of the other races to aid them and simply bring them to the Devil's Table with them.

The fact as you say, that the other races outnumber the drow when combined is testament to the fact the system the DM/Dev team implemented is actually working. *Cough* The recent RP event that occurred is testament to that fact. The truth is the other races wouldn't so readily combine forces if the drow weren't always trying to take over all of Andunor and hog everything to themselves.

Even in the FR novels by which so many players seem to base this strange mentality drow players have(meaning all the arrogance and none of the actual class or refinement), were the other races to band together they would in fact defeat the drow very easily. In fact in one novel, the slaves rebel and bring the drow to their proverbial knees.

Then there's a term I despise the use of. "Lesser Races". A couple of them are not in fact "Lesser" at all. If Even the Drow of Menzoberranzan in the novels were so powerful, there wouldn't be a nearby Svirf settlement, nor a duergar city full of duergar who are happy to insult any drow.

Which brings me to the reason for this longwinded post. Just have extra guildhouses... not drow guildhouses, Just guildhouses. DROW guildhouses only give drow more power, and then all you have is Udos the sequel, which instead of being a distance from Grond, is right next to it in the form of the Sharps.

As it stands the system is just about perfect for everyone in terms of making players happy. Drow get their side, and every other race has one side. If anything I'd be more willing to see guildhouses thrown up for the sake of the other races before I see it in the hands of drow.

The reason for this is simple. Drow players play an arrogant race unwilling to for the most part, even stand on equal footing with any other race, while the other races are. I find it strange because even based off novels, drow are arrogant... but not that arrogant. And when they show their arrogance to other races, it's with the idea they have more class and refinement than the other races, not less. I've seen Orogs with more manners.

[dirza]

You should play more and care less of drow power

[JediMindTrix]

You should play more and care less of drow power

You should snark and passive-aggressive less.

Then there's a term I despise the use of. "Lesser Races". A couple of them are not in fact "Lesser" at all. If Even the Drow of Menzoberranzan in the novels were so powerful, there wouldn't be a nearby Svirf settlement, nor a duergar city full of duergar who are happy to insult any drow.

Blingstonhold was destroyed.

First off the blacksmith's place being canned I am 100% in agreement with. It's simply redundant and wasted space that could used more efficiently and to the player's gain. Instead it's just a waypoint for new players(which to be honest, how many real new players do we actually get?)

I feel like this is wasted space as well, but given that the server's go on without being reset for a while nowadays, I've grown to appreciate the back-up forges and enchantment basins present within. If it were to go I'd love to see it as another neutral house.

Excellent candidates to become a guildhouse: The super mansion in the Devil's Table, the two story mansion in the Sharps that's currently an unused 'monastery'.

[Sazu]

Actually Blingstonhold is part of Brog, and the original wasn't destroyed by drow, but by the cataclysm that also sunk Udos., so I fail to see how your answer connects with what I stated, which was to say Drow aren't even the major power in the underdark but one of many major powers.

[JediMindTrix]

Sorry, I meant Blingdenstone. Destroyed by the Drow of Menzoberranzan in one of the Drizzt novels. This connects on the basis that Drow are powerful, and after they crossed them, they wiped the city out. And also pertains to this statement: "I also have read every novel that exists that pertains to life in the underdark so hear me out."

[dirza]

Sometimes, from the posts on forum, i get the feeling people would wish drow to live like beggars somewhere in the streets of a side-like slums, and serve their human masters.

Really, where is coming from that weird obssesion how to dictate drow community how to play, how their society ig should look like, and forbide them to play it in way they wish?

It is some kind of fetish like in each -nerf X- topic is cleric tossed around.

[Whitewood]

Just a friendly little nudge from a returning player. I wouldnt nessesarily poke in the direction in which yer going very hard Dirza, didnt work out too well for myself and some other drow players. Dont want to see you get smacked down :/ Even though yer just trying to express yer opinion and beliefs.

[dirza]

Getting tired how forum fighters need to press on drow players, blaming them for playing their drow how they like, and calling out novels can for all that evil. Majority of drow players in fact never read anything about drow, and even about Drizzt just heard from others. I would laugh ...but when those people keep attacking drow community over and over, its not funny anymore.

[Marsi]

chill out^

[Yma23]

More drow guldhouses? No - too nieche. Yes the Drow are the most popular underdark race, but catering guildhouses 'just for them' seems a little much. IMO whilst I like the idea of guildhouses being 'flavoured' towards certain things, I think taking a stance where almost any faction can take overa guildhouse and make it their own is best.

More Underdark Guildhouses? Yeah - not a bad idea. I'm not convinced entirely neccesarly - but not a bad idea.

More underdark housing? Possibly a good idea, given it's so popular right now, having a few more homes would help. As Sazu said before:

I think there's should be more housing, period. While I understand the DMs/Devs wanted the scenario to be dog eat dog. But the truth is the battle to grab homes has become completely OOC and has nothing to do with any IC conflict. And as Durvayas says, most houses around are in fact owned by many members of one faction. It wouldn't be something horrendous if there was more housing areas around.

I'd actualy argue it'd be nice to have a little more housing in the hub and/or a bit outside of Andunor. Nothing huge, nothing fancy, just somewhere for people to go should they annoy the powers that be. Right now it's really easy to get you character to a place where they are -literally- unplayable in all of Andunor, and there's no option but to go along with it. This isn't good for conflict rp. Isn't good for any long term characters, and doesn't really encourage roleplay. I'm not saying we should go back to old style Udos or anything, with seperate places for all raced, far from it. But having somewhere in the UD that is the equivilent of the Cricket Caves (maybe the outcast caves? Put them a bit further away from Andunor and add a frew basic quarters) Would be a nice idea.

[Sazu]

There is something I have noticed, an unbecoming trend if you will, where once a person makes an enemy in one district, they become an enemy in both. And once these characters become an enemy, they disappear. Because they have literally no where else to go. So it forces the player to roll up a new character, and the cycle starts over again.

So my thoughts are that if you must have all the races live in one large city.... make it REALLY large, so that even if a character becomes the enemy of one of the districts, it isn't tantamount to a complete and utter death sentence. Not only can this cause major problems for a character, it can become a major turn off for players as well.

And no offense Dirza but no one is attacking the drow community. We're defending the six or seven other races that also exist. As it stands the Drow have an entire district all to themselves, while every other race has a district for all of them combined. All I am stating is not to make new housing and such purely for drow. Mechanical advantages do equate with more power. Adding only more drow houses would do well only to foster more drow, who will then way outnumber every race even further. And I know there was many posts in the past where the DM/Dev specifically said they wanted to take steps for that not to happen.

[CragOneEye]

+1^