Warlocks

[The Rambling Midget]

The cold damage is easily stopped, yea. Unless you're counting extra physical DR I'm not sure how you prevent that. Admittedly, I forgot about energy buffer, I'll retract my former statement.

You get 10/- DR vs Physical at level 30, and Energy Buffer does 40/- DR vs Elements. Ice Storm does an average 10.5 Bludgeoning and 39 Cold at level 30, so unless you get a really good roll, you can drop at least one on your own head with minimal risk.

[Realoms]

Wonderful, I thought the physical damage was higher. Thank you!

[The Rambling Midget]

Double check the first post. It's possible I misread.

Also, can anyone tell me at which level alternate damage types become available?

[Mithreas]

You can tell them to attack the spawn via voice chat or radial menu.

[Hunter548]

Alternative damage types become available at the same time as they used to.

[Realoms]

You can tell them to attack the spawn via voice chat or radial menu.

Thank you! This works well and solves a bunch of issues I was having, though that doesn't seem to unstealth them- not sure if this is a bug or intended?

[Mithreas]

They will unstealth when they strike (or should do!) but they won't unstealth until that point.

[The Rambling Midget]

Alternative damage types become available at the same time as they used to.

Neato! Thanks.

[Realoms]

They will unstealth when they strike (or should do!) but they won't unstealth until that point.

Thank you!

[The Rambling Midget]

Wiki article updated: http://wiki.arelith.com/Warlock

Hate-mail can be directed to my inbox.

[Preacher]

Actually I'm running into the same thing with the summons stealthing and ignoring monsters who are attacking... Also them stealthing causes issues where I have to give them a command two or three times before they react... at times even the Attack command will do nothing and I have to use Guard me to get them to attack something.

I understand why you would want summons to stealth with you.... but as a sneaker, i'd rather my summons be the obvious target and react normally while *I* stealth, rather then them stealthing with me and not listening to commands or attacking targets that rush me/them.

[Preacher]

also note, is Darkness supposed to damage foes? as it currently does not.

[Mithreas]

No, I considered it a defensive spell for the purpose of warlock blasts.

Summons in stealth deliberately ignore monsters (so they don't break stealth when you are trying to sneak past with them). They shouldn't need multiple commands though, unless there's a lot of lag. Is anyone else seeing that?

[Realoms]

I've also had some problems with them not exiting stealth, even when I'm attacking spawns, or I have ordered them to attack.
Once, I had a spawn attack a summon and the summon stood there for a few moments just stupidly not responding (this may have been lag though on my end).

Would it perchance be possible to make the summons all henchmen, and add a dialogue to disable/re-enable their stealth? (not sure if this screws up other stuff or is viable, it just crossed my mind, that might be possible because I think HoTU had something similar.)

[Vandria Gilmadrith]

(allow me to use oldlock and newlock to describe pre and post updated classes)
Perhaps I am being niave in posting here as my warlock is only lvl 7. However I am trying to understand the essence of what has been done here. To my understanding (from players and wiki)
oldlocks had the ability to choose between single target, chain target, blast (fireball) target and what ever you want to call call lighting target for their eldrich abilities. Now people complained that they would draw too much agro but i never saw anywhere that said they couldn't just use their single target ability instead? I feel like the new change has removed entirely the AOE potential out of the class. I am not saying that the newlock isn't cool, simply that from reading this thread, the oldlock needed some love as it was underwhelming compared with other classes. I have worry that the new changes are altering a weak class and gutting some of its most viable aspects. Similarly, the oldlock had all the bard spells available. Has no one else noticed that the new-feylock has no protection from alignment or clarity, both of which it has now lost. The new-feylock has no innate way to protect from even the simplest of mind spells. The newlock likewise has lost most of its potential buffing ability with hour/level buffs such as bull str, cats grace, eagles. Yes some of the newlocks have some of those, but previously locks had availability to all of them. I have heard that legend lore is nice as it provides understanding the arelith based language system readily available, and that non-combat, RP tool has been removed. things like etheral visage, which oldlocks used to get at lvl 13 now have to wait till lvl 28 to get it. Feylocks are given daze (awesome at lvl 3, but haven't been able to touch anything with it since lvl 5) and cloud of bewilderment (i took it on my mage and promptly dropped it as it harmed myself or party more than enemies particularly with not prot from alignment. The new-evillocks get darkness ultravision which is an amazing combination, however that brings to mind that all the newlocks lost the ability to cast ultravision on themselves anyways.

From what I could tell, is that oldlocks needed some love on the damage side of things, and needed some survivability, I am just leery looking at the scalpel that took away so much of the pre-existing effects of the class in the name of an update intending to buff the class. As I started out, I am a new player (main only lvl 15) and even greener warlock (lvl 7) but I am looking at the changes and not sure I see a net gain, in certain aspects to be sure, but I am forseeing much fear, confusion, holdperson, and dominate person in my newlock's future that I am no longer going to be able to protect myself from :/

Lastly I would like to point out the one thing that hasn't been mentioned thus far, with the adding the blast effect to spells and not a staff, you are now dependent on actual casting and the attack of opportunities that come with it. The one consistent worry I have seen from people about the old and new lock class is that is AC and defenses are low. forcing attacks of opportunity were there previously were none is a huge nerf not a buff to the update.

[Mithreas]

I think you're missing the difference infinite casting makes (especially for Ethereal Visage, which was all but useless with a bard's limited castings) - and the damage increase (from d6 per 2 levels to d4 per level, and the ability to cast two blasts per round vs 1 previously). Crowd control is now via AoE spells, not by AoE damage.

Both forms of newlock do have weaknesses, and that's deliberate.

[Vandria Gilmadrith]

Well I am one to fully admit you are likely right. My response is on a knee jerk reaction to number crunching however I dont think I am giving enough weight to the value of infinite casting as I have never not played an infinite caster on Arelith's system. I do not suppose there is any way to reward pure warlocks with the ability to pick up epic spell focus feats is there? I know they do not get to 9th level, but if you have a pure caster type (which is what i like as I dont see a warlock as a spell blade) Then I could imagine some of those epic spell focus cookies that were added to Arelith being nice to build towards in the end game.

[Hamatreya]

Please don't even consider giving warlocks epic spell foci. Please.

Leave those perks to the normal casting classes (and weave masters). Warlocks get enough juicy perks as it is with this new system. Unlimited invisibility? Yes please. An overwhelmingly effective dispel? Thanks! The ability to indefinitely dominate humanoid mobs OR yank around an epic balor lord wherever you go? Shiiiiit.

Suggestions have been hacked to death in this thread, and I'm fully convinced the warlock class has all it needs, and that all the holes in the previous incarnation have been closed. The class is perfect as is, save some bugs here and there.

[The Rambling Midget]

Please don't even consider giving warlocks epic spell foci. Please.

All the posts about warlock balance and suggestions etc are being filed in my ignore bin at this point. I'm not even considering making further changes (beside fixing bugs) right now.

[yellowcateyes]

While strong, visceral reactions are expected when an overhaul happens to a class you play, I highly recommend going in-game first and trying out the new mechanics before passing judgement. There's a lot of gameplay elements not immediately visible from skimming the new spell list and class abilities.

Instead of expecting old tactics and strategies to work with the new warlocks, try starting fresh and experimenting with all of your spells and spell combinations. It's quite possible that you'll be pleasantly surprised at how viable the new warlock is.

[Ecstatic]

I would even go so far as to say you'll be pleasantly surprised at a warlock being viable, full stop.

[God In Action]

The warlocks have changed entirely in their best used strategy and tactics, and this differs again between fiend and fey warlocks. I recommend adventuring alone, in an area far below your normal level that should be pretty safe in order to work out the best new use of their abilities.

Feylocks need to spam those disabling spells, preferably with haste, whilst fiendlocks need to hang safe and use their infinite summons as meatshields. Use spells to support the summon.

[RedGiant]

So...I would like to re-re bring up some of my questions and misgivings, since no one addressed them. According to the Rambling Midget quoting Mith, there will be no reworking, only bug fixes.

So, with that in mind...Fey Pact.

Charm spells don't actually work.

Yeah.

Comments?

[Mithreas]

I thought I fixed charm spells not working. What exactly are you seeing?

[RedGiant]

The "charm" effect takes hold. For one round they stop all actions. The very next, even while the charmed effect is still visible, they continue hacking/casting/firing away at you, business as usual.

Edit: This, of course, assumes no further hostile action on the caster's part. Doesn't matter. They're still mad at you.

Edit: Edit: Well...dang...sometimes it does work. *is now confused*.

Edit: Edit: Edit": I think its something factional, I don't fully understand....yet.

Edit: Edit: Edit: Edit: If you attack another hostile faction in the meantime, it undoes the charm effect for all others. I /think/.