Arelith

If it's any help for sound burst- it's not exclusively bard as I'm fairly certain it's 2nd level for clerics too.

I also think Balagarn's may be slightly more useful to one up in melee than behind summons.

In regards to the aura thing- given these spells are infinite, the issue is not the bugs. They can after all be recast, the only issue is that it's entirely replicable with better single target effects already in both cases.
If they were offered, for example, silence it wouldn't be so bad. Particularly because when it bugs, they can simply be recast- thus eliminating the concern over bugs.

Balagarn's is in there to let you run away. If something gets too close, pop it and buy time to step back and blast again.

Makes sense! Could the fey get either UV or See Invis instead of invis sphere? That'd be a useful utility but non-offensive spell that wasn't easily replaced by what they already have.

Do we have a vague, rough ETA, perchance? *rocks back and forward on chair, in anticipation*...

Realoms wrote:Makes sense! Could the fey get either UV or See Invis instead of invis sphere? That'd be a useful utility but non-offensive spell that wasn't easily replaced by what they already have.

I'd like to see (and would humbly beg and prostrate myself at Mith's feet for) feylocks get See Invisibility. It's rather thematic, and would be mighty useful in groups when the feylock's improved invisibility is in demand, or when the feylock is popping in and out of visibility. They don't need ultravision, as wands of it are plentiful and last hours/level.

Realoms wrote:Do we have a vague, rough ETA, perchance? *rocks back and forward on chair, in anticipation*...

I feel you. I've been wanting to make another warlock for almost two years now, since I -delete_character'd the one I had out of frustration.

@Realoms, although aura spells can infinitely cast, they're still useless. Dirge, perhaps, is maybe the only thing that might be borderline worthwhile. In times of any sort of lag, you cast an aura spell, move 10 ft - gone. What's the point of that? That's consistently been my experience with them, and so I think you need to throw them in the garbage.

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:In times of any sort of lag, you cast an aura spell, move 10 ft - gone.

What is this movement nonsense? I've had Dirge fail after one round while standing perfectly still.

And I've moved across two servers under the effects of them with no issue.
I know what the glitch/bug is, and I know the mechanics of how it happens. My point remains, however, that the uselessness of them in this case is by the fact they're easily replicable with other spells with the same effect. The fact you can infinitely recast them, makes up for the fact the aura gets lost easily. I'm not advocating they stay anyway, because they're made redundant by other spells in the lists simply pointing out that the bug is less of the issue in this case because whenever it's lost it can be cast again.

I don't know if this was addressed:
But both sets get both a dispel and then Greater Dispel at some point. Is it as redundant as it sounds in my head, since Great Dispel is infinite?

Dispel will be useful up until then, and you don't get G. Dispel until level 23.

Coreybush11 wrote:I don't know if this was addressed:
But both sets get both a dispel and then Greater Dispel at some point. Is it as redundant as it sounds in my head, since Great Dispel is infinite?

Nah. Dispel for lower levels, greater for higher levels. It's not like either'll be terribly effective /as/ dispels, seeing as they're capped at caster level 15 (19 with abjuration foci) so any character with a caster level of >23 (27 with foci) is going to be immune to it. Carry a breach wand instead.

That would be good advice, except that I'm uncapping greater dispel as part of these changes.

Mithreas wrote:That would be good advice, except that I'm uncapping greater dispel as part of these changes.

I could kiss you.
I mean... could. Theoretically.

Just one thing about the Lower Pact. I would recommend that the Balor Lord for them be buffed up a bit. Looking over the stats for them on the wiki, I was not impressed.

They're a push-over, really. Their stats differ very little from a regular Balor.

Also, perhaps Ice Storm should be changed for the Lower Pact warlocks? If it could use the flaming/falling boulders appearance and deal fire damage instead of frost, it would be a lot more fitting.

Valo65 wrote:Just one thing about the Lower Pact. I would recommend that the Balor Lord for them be buffed up a bit. Looking over the stats for them on the wiki, I was not impressed.

They're a push-over, really. Their stats differ very little from a regular Balor.

Also, perhaps Ice Storm should be changed for the Lower Pact warlocks? If it could use the flaming/falling boulders appearance and deal fire damage instead of frost, it would be a lot more fitting.

The NWN wiki?
The Blackguard Summons are buffed immensely, if I'm not mistaken, on Arelith.

Changing the ice storm visual and effect to be more hellish in nature would be fitting, I agree.

Summon Creature 1 (level 2): Boar summon reskinned as a Hellhound.
Summon Creature 2 (level 8): BG new Imp
Summon Creature 3 (level 12): BG new Succubus
Summon Creature 4 (level 17): BG new Vrock
Summon Creature 5 (level 21): Greater Vrock
Summon Creature 6 (level 25): BG new Balor

Summon 6 + greater conj: Balor Lord.

If what you said, Hamatreya, is correct, then I'm in agreement. All is well.

But there seems to be a distinction between what is going by the new summons and what is going by the basic Bioware stuff. Some things are designated as New BG summons and others are not.

Thus my suggestion, in case it was thought (as would be reasonable) that Balor Lords are somehow really strong, when in fact they are not.

It could be a balor lord from the abyss areas, those things aren't too slouchy from memory- even if they aren't super incredibly painful.

Valo65 wrote:

Summon Creature 1 (level 2): Boar summon reskinned as a Hellhound.
Summon Creature 2 (level 8): BG new Imp
Summon Creature 3 (level 12): BG new Succubus
Summon Creature 4 (level 17): BG new Vrock
Summon Creature 5 (level 21): Greater Vrock
Summon Creature 6 (level 25): BG new Balor

Summon 6 + greater conj: Balor Lord.

If what you said, Hamatreya, is correct, then I'm in agreement. All is well.

But there seems to be a distinction between what is going by the new summons and what is going by the basic Bioware stuff. Some things are designated as New BG summons and others are not.

Thus my suggestion, in case it was thought (as would be reasonable) that Balor Lords are somehow really strong, when in fact they are not.

Send Yellena a PM, as that's the player who spearheaded the whole summons rework. I'd like to know specific details and stats on the new planar summons, as well, if anyone has that info.

Mithreas wrote:That would be good advice, except that I'm uncapping greater dispel as part of these changes.

That's pretty neat. Is that going to be just for warlocks, or will it also be for other casting classes? And will it hit Mords as well?

If it's for all classes, then it gives everyone (not just mages) a good reason to take abjuration focuses, which I think would be a good thing. Warlocks would still be amongst the best dispellers out there, due to their ability to spam dispels indefinitely and get damage out of it. Mages would have mords (which, if also uncapped, would be fucntionally like a greater dispelling with a pair of breaches worked in on top), and could push their dispel chances a little higher with extra foci, but couldn't spam. Clerics, druids, and bards would be decent too, but not as good as Locks or mages. Which isn't so bad. Last time I saw a cleric pack a dispel instead of harm/heal/whatever was a long, long time ago. Personally favor this solution, because it helps make warlocks good buff busters without making them Way Better (tm) than a mage with the abjuration foci.

I favor uncapping greater dispelling, too. Mord's (which I'd also like to see uncapped) will retain its novelty by having half a dozen breaches tucked in. I honestly can't recall the last time I actually saw a PC cast greater dispelling.

It will also make warlocks all the more considerable in PvP. That multiclassed wizard/rogue or sorcerer/paladin is going to have to consider 75 damage, prompting a concentration roll, coupled with a 45% chance to dispel (if my math is right). I love the thought of warlocks no longer being pushovers in magical duels.

I wouldn't mind seeing mords uncapped if we're doing that, tbh. It's a level 9 spell, it ought to be better than a level 6 one at its job, on account of costing a pile of spell components and a slot that could be used for something else big. My main point was that if they both get uncapped, they'll both do brute force dispelling with equal efficiency. Mords, however, would justify being 3 levels higher by including the breach line of effects (guaranteed removal of up to 6 spells from the breach list, plus SR reduction, etc).

It applies for all classes - mundanes being undispellable annoyed me. Mord's still has its breach effect but is not uncapped.

Warlocks getting awesome dispel is basically Voracious Dispelling.

Mithreas wrote:It applies for all classes - mundanes being undispellable annoyed me.

Is this also going to apply to NPC casters? That would be a big hit against half-casters who already, for illogical reasons, have far lower dispel resistance than pure mundanes.

This is amazing, thank you!

What happens to our current warlock staffs though?

So, does this mean that you must be able to cast spells as a bard (CHR 11) to get glowing eyes?

It does. CHA 10 should get you 0 level spells though?