MoD Change Discussion

[Cortex]

MoD has been growing more and more stale over the years, and with the last update, it was the final nail on the coffin. Throw out ideas to make it better and maybe the Arelith overlords will make it better.

Counts only toward PvP deaths.
Counts only toward respawns.

From other thread:
Negative ECL(-2/-3?).
Higher XP per tick.

[P Three]

How would it tell that you died in actual combat instead of say from glitch/lag?

[Ellaari]

It doesn't but that's how the MoD is right now I think. I personally like the way things are handled on FL, iirc you basically have MoD for PVP but not for PVE? I understand that it would never be mandatory on arelith but maybe making the MoD closer to how it's been suggested by Cortex or like how it does on FL would make it more appealing.

In my own opinion, most of the time it seems like a lot of the deaths that stick are PVP anyways so having the lives count only for PVP stuff makes it have more impact where it counts, between players.

*Edit*
I could be wrong and feel free to correct me but I THINK it might be able to be refunded in certain circumstances, ie griefing, etc. Buuut I could be wrong on that.

[Cortex]

How would it tell that you died in actual combat instead of say from glitch/lag?

Functions like that in FL just fine, the only case it doesn't registers as PvP death is when you let them bleed out.

[P Three]

See, I have always thought MOD should accept raises. I don't play MODs because I suck at levelling but I have always thought if someone is there to raise you it shouldn't count.

[Griefmaker]

I like the idea of MoD being for PvP deaths as well (as it is on FL and has worked well there). A character has 10 deaths for their cause or whatever and can make the most out of them. Instead of losing one due to lag, glitch, or an unlucky roll.

[grip]

I hate to come into a thread with something negative and nothing positive so I will promise to return once I have considered, but...

Counts only toward PvP deaths.
Counts only toward respawns.

My concern in this is that it becomes too good. MoD, in my opinion, should be a big risk. Without much consideration I lean more towards giving -1 ELC on top of the bonus to RPR.

[Cortex]

I hate to come into a thread with something negative and nothing positive so I will promise to return once I have considered, but...

Counts only toward PvP deaths.
Counts only toward respawns.

My concern in this is that it becomes too good. MoD, in my opinion, should be a big risk. Without much consideration I lean more towards giving -1 ELC on top of the bonus to RPR.

-1 ECL equals to needing 27,000 XP less to hit max level, -2 equals 54,000 and -3 equals 93,000, meaning you need about one level worth of XP less to hit max level. The ECL quantity depends on the risk MoD gives, I'd say -2 is fair for the current setup(any death counts toward MoD).

435,000(0 ECL)
406,000(-1 ECL)
378,000(-2 ECL)
351,000(-3 ECL)

[roy rutan]

For the most part the suggestions I have seen above have already Previously been refused by Mithreas on the suggestions thread. seeing PvE deaths not counting towards MoD would be nice and it would encourage people to use MoD more often it would also I think increase problems in the long run with people pvp killing more often especially if they have an issue with someones character.

the +40 per tick for MoD I think is appropriate. if anything were to change perhaps remove the +per tick and grant a -1 ecl or Grant 1 bonus gift, with this perhaps a seperate list of gifts that can only be taken with the MoD
examples of such
the SR32 that was taken from the options for the gifts I think it was called Gift of spell shielding
or a playable race that you cant get with out a higher rpr bonus like perhaps a Pixie, there are a number great possibilities another possibility from FL server rather then a RpR have every tick grant them Gemstones with the gemstones they can sell for additional cash or use for crafting.

even with these ideas I do not expect Mithreas to greenlight any changes to the MoD system as it stands.

[Cortex]

For the most part the suggestions I have seen above have already Previously been refused by Mithreas on the suggestions thread.

So were the death, raven totem(dragonshape), heal/harm, etc changes?

[Shadowy Reality]

MoD is a great tool for people that like to go through characters rapidly, with and added risk.
Epic Sacrifice is a tool to see characters go.

Why not tie them together? Some sort of bonus to people with MoD rolling their characters. I wouldn't go as far as give them the next rank in the reward tier but add something to the %.

[Durvayas]

MoD is a great tool for people that like to go through characters rapidly, with and added risk.
Epic Sacrifice is a tool to see characters go.

Why not tie them together? Some sort of bonus to people with MoD rolling their characters. I wouldn't go as far as give them the next rank in the reward tier but add something to the %.

I like this. It encourages MoD characters via a risk/reward system.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

MoD is a free 20 RPR boost.

My first/main character had an MoD- I remade him without it, but not because MoD wasn't mechanically worth it. I remade him because the character stopped being a "throwaway" in my mind. Other players and I myself grew attached to the story and development of the character, but as a first character I rapidly found myself discovering in very unpleasant ways that in adapting to things and learning the ropes I was going to wind up with my story cut far shorter than I would enjoy.

My -first- death was when I was afk during a full moon. A werewolf transformed and killed me. I had a laugh about it with the player.

Mark of Destiny gets plenty. It's like 'hardcore' mode, or the Arelith equivalent of "YOLO!" You're doing it for swag, not for loot. I would never complain about the 20 bonus xp/tick, and I certainly enjoyed it. But I don't think it needs more, or even the 20 xp/tick it already gets.

I also secretly suspect that, as the brightest candles often burn out sooner, they probably get a little more attention from the curious gods above while they are burning and flickering. I have no way to prove or disprove this, but it ***IS*** called a mark of Destiny.

TL;DR
Take it because you want swag points- if you "need more" out of it to justify it, you're doing it for the wrong reasons, IMO, and will almost definitely be happier without it.

[Sab1]

IMO would seem a bit unfair to take thee added XP for a MOD yet only certain deaths would count. I could easily avoid PVP and never have to worry about my 10 death then.

[Cortex]

IMO would seem a bit unfair to take thee added XP for a MOD yet only certain deaths would count. I could easily avoid PVP and never have to worry about my 10 death then.

I never implied ALL of them should be added simultaneously, one or the other or whatever the holy devs see fit.

[Maggie]

I honestly don't mind how the MoD's are right now on Arelith. Lately I have been playing nothing but MoD's. It makes the game a little more challenging and brings alot of fun and joy. I have about 5 MoD's I am playing now, all within mid levels with all their lives still and when every they die it will be a great loss for me but I see my MoD characters having great impact on people and that makes it worth the while in my eye. But that is just me. I dont mind seeing it improving if they do something about it. But like I said I enjoy it now as it is and MoD's are alot of fun for me.

[andthenthatwasthat]

IMO would seem a bit unfair to take thee added XP for a MOD yet only certain deaths would count. I could easily avoid PVP and never have to worry about my 10 death then.

That is the point of MOD - avoid certain situations, but still get XP for the actions you do in RP. A merchant might stay within Cordor walls, completely avoid any fights (PvP or otherwise), and still earn XP for the interactions she has in her life.

[Sab1]

IMO would seem a bit unfair to take thee added XP for a MOD yet only certain deaths would count. I could easily avoid PVP and never have to worry about my 10 death then.

That is the point of MOD - avoid certain situations, but still get XP for the actions you do in RP. A merchant might stay within Cordor walls, completely avoid any fights (PvP or otherwise), and still earn XP for the interactions she has in her life.

That's different, if you want to avoid all dangerous situations that's fine. This would allow someone to reap the benefits of the MOD, avoid only pvp, yet still run about going into dangerous situations involving monsters with no worry since any death wouldn't count towards their MOD.

[Arther Goodmane]

That's different, if you want to avoid all dangerous situations that's fine. This would allow someone to reap the benefits of the MOD, avoid only pvp, yet still run about going into dangerous situations involving monsters with no worry since any death wouldn't count towards their MOD.

Would it be a bad thing though, if people invested heavily into Player versus Environment challenges, but avoided Player versus Player scenarios?

Not to say that only PvP deaths should be relevant to the Mark of Destiny perk, I'm just saying that if people feel encouraged not to enter combat with other players (not necessarily discourage PvP, just encouraging an alternative), I personally don't see an issue with that.

But yea, you can't get something for nothing. There should be a severe limit to having an MoD, though it would be nice if deaths as a result of glitches and such were discounted.

[Lorkas]

To use a monetary analogy, it's like death used to cost $100 without a MoD and $200 with MoD, while now death costs $10 without MoD and $110 with MoD. MoD makes the death penalty $100 extra either way, but the proportional difference between death for a non-MoD character and a MoD character is much greater now than it used to be.

You can easily say "Well don't choose MoD", but that is not a choice for current characters that already have a MoD. I don't think it needs to count only PvP deaths, but I also don't think that it was the devs' intention to make MoD less attractive with this death update, so perhaps it needs to be looked at in light of the change.

[Cuchilla]

I don't see how the new update should change the MoD to something less attractive. You dont loose so much EXP dying now. And?

Can't remember the excact wording, but I think that MoD was introduced for players who like their chars to have a short, but glamourous life. Faster levelling (eventually by more roleplay, less spawn killings).

The deal was what we already know. Take it or leave it. Contrary to FL it's not forced, so the two can't be compared to each others.

Imo, the system works fine as it is. It's a deal: You get +20 points every 6 minute against that you have a limited number of deaths. It's difficult (impossible) to say if the price is too high, or too low. For some players it's a good bargain, for others it's too high a price. Like anything else on this server.

[The Rambling Midget]

The biggest problem I've encountered while playing MoD characters is that a lot of players/characters I end up partying with treat death as an inevitability and nothing more than an expected loss to be accounted for. They'll go to the most dangerous place possible, where death is about a 50/50 chance, because they know that they'll get more XP than they'll lose. And it's often expressed in character. "Don't worry, guys. I've died like ten times, now. It doesn't hurt."

It got to the point where my options were: 1) travel with the lemming squad and keep a lens on hand for when they inevitably decide to face an overpowered enemy, or 2) solo. This was before the death change. I can't imagine it's gotten better, since.

I don't think I'll ever take a MoD again, in its current form, because parties are where the RP is, and I need the eggs.

[Lorkas]

That's precisely my problem too, TRM. Other players with less on the line for their characters wanting to go to places that are too tough for their current level and accepting that the XP loss from death is less than or equal to the XP gain from travelling there instead of somewhere safer. I've seen this at low levels, mid levels, and epic levels, and it's anathema to a player who 1) hates the revolving door afterlife, and so hates dying, and 2) plays a MoD since the aversion to death means fewer deaths anyway.

I would likely avoid those parties anyway even if I didn't have a MoD on a character, because I hate death so much, but the fact is that means that I have to avoid certain parties and certain players. Part of what makes the idea of a mandatory MoD (that counts PvM deaths!) so attractive to me is that everyone would be forced to adjust their risk assessments instead of recognizing that the risk is "practically no XP and twenty minutes of lowered stats" and instead properly recognize that the risk is "permanent death", which it ICly should be RPd as. None of our characters know ICly that they will be able to respawn an unlimited number of times, but the metagame is strong and largely accepted as normal on this issue.

[Arther Goodmane]

I don't think I'll ever take a MoD again, in its current form, because parties are where the RP is, and I need the eggs.

You're right Midget, role playing in parties is a great way to generate role play and have some more traditional gaming fun. It is after all, the point of a group based, fantasy RPG setting. Unfortunately (at least in my experience) simply getting into a party and going out to do stuff isn't that easy or simple.

Very often I don't have enough time to wait around for people to show up or recruit people and by the time I do, I often need to log off soon after. an MoD is perfect for slobs like me who more often than not, stay around where it's safe and occasionally go out on grand adventures (not by choice, but by circumstance).

As Cuchilla said though, take it for what it is. It is not the norm, it's a special option you take because it suits you.

[Shalvenay]

... None of our characters know ICly that they will be able to respawn an unlimited number of times, but the metagame is strong and largely accepted as normal on this issue.

What would a character's observations about seeing folks die and come back again repeatedly (or better yet, returning from the Fugue themselves on multiple occasions) tell them?