Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

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- implementing the suggestion is impractical, or too much work for the gain
- the suggestion is thematically against our design philosophy
- the suggestion is too detailed/low-level
Keep your suggestions broad and focused on RP benefits, please, not detailed suggestions of how to tweak X class.

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Should high level monks on Arelith have glowing eyes?

Yes they should (Keep the Glow)
54
47%
No they shouldn't (Remove the Glow)
61
53%
 
Total votes: 115

Archnon
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Archnon » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:57 pm

I like the idea of keeping the eyes but it would be nice if they were a fixed color that didn't line up with Warlock. In other words all monks get purple glowing eyes while warlock still varies or something. That way you preserve the monk RP but don't get them confused with warlocks who are an autoattack tag on most places on the surface. Further, unlike Warlock pacts, a monks eyes should not necessarily give away their alignment as they are a product of rigorous discipline and not an oriented action set toward good or evil.

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Subutai » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:13 pm

I hate the monk glowing eyes more aesthetically than anything else. They often don't line up with the actual eyes of the head models, and they look like crap. They aren't actual glow coming from the eyes, they're just orbs of light that obviously clip with the head model and just look downright terrible to me.

From a lore perspective, there's absolutely nothing in any lore I've ever seen that says monks have glowing eyes at level 20. It's just an effect someone at Bioware thought would be neat and added in.

Overall, I come down pretty hard on the "Remove" side. They're ugly and there's nothing in the lore that says they should glow.

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Cortex
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Cortex » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:14 am

Where's the option for more glow?

Image
:)

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A Mystery Clock
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by A Mystery Clock » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:28 am

Cortex wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:14 am
Where's the option for more glow?
Image

NauVaseline
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by NauVaseline » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:29 am

Nitro wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:42 pm
Irongron wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:31 pm
This is either an all in, or all out question. I don't want PCs to be able to toggle their eyes like a cyborg.
*looks at warlocks*

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Peppermint
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Peppermint » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:55 am

Anyone that wants to keep the glow is a silly and I don't want to interact with them. They are bad roleplayers and should feel ashamed.

No glow.

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Emotionaloverload
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Emotionaloverload » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:29 am

I voted to remove them because all other alignment tells were randomized or removed from the game to improve rp. I am not sure why these never got the boot.

That said, I do think its pretty >.> and I always look forward to it on my monks.

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Cortex
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Cortex » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:43 am

Emotionaloverload wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:29 am
I voted to remove them because all other alignment tells were randomized or removed from the game to improve rp. I am not sure why these never got the boot.

That said, I do think its pretty >.> and I always look forward to it on my monks.

-S
Because it was impossible prior haks.
:)

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Izaich
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Izaich » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:36 am

One of the main reasons I decided to roll up a monk so many years ago was the eye vfx. Since then, I've had a lot of interesting RP explaining why monks' eyes glow the way they do.

The concerns that the vfx is too common and gives away alignment are both valid criticisms. The eyes can lose their appeal when everyone and their dog (see AMC's post above) has them.

I voted to keep the eyes as they are, but I'd suggest moving the feature up to Monk level 30.

EDIT: Another idea that came to mind was to tie a monk's eye colour to their Divination Attunement. This would solve the alignment problem.

Befemor Borgir
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Befemor Borgir » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:49 pm

I voted to keep the glow. Way back in time no one really bothered about this as there where only a few monk characters about, who went passed lvl 20. Glendal bloodwater for example achieved these glowing eyes. One of my first characters was very intrigued by his big red glowing eyes. My character did not have the lore why or how his eyes became a glowing pair, rather than the normal pair of eyes a character would have. (Really, I was a noob way back. Never ever played the campaign, but got addicted to Arelith because a friend started playing this game on this server.) Two more names I recall around that time is Kata... (forgive me if I am wrong on the last name) Razengard and ofcourse our beloved Amadeo Pneuma.

From that time, Arelith started to evolve like it has always been. The size of the server grew and so was the playerbase. Many developers came to improve our beloved fantasy world. Updates came in, some more loved than others, but hey! We are humans and we are not identical. So with this, not everyone is sharing one or anothers opinion. And with this we started to share our opinions along the development team to further improve our beloved Arelith. Suggestions where aproved, some of them denied.

Me as a unic person behind my character, I do not always like all updates. And this is where I want to make my point... Monks got updated to where it is now. Some say they are the best class at this moment to powerbuild, some may think they got a little to few extras, but this is preference. I can't say so myself since I did not test the new updated class of monk. But from this point we achieved something new, perhaps something better than any other class. So people get hyped and maybe, really maybe as I do not have the numbers, people massively start to create monk characters.

I really do want to add, that I am not aware how much monk characters where made from that time, but this is what I think why this discussion comes up.

So, more people start to play monk and suddenly the fact comes up that a monks glowing eyes reveal their alignment. This may be seen as metagaming, but it all depends what you as a person do with it while you see the vfx. Yes! What you see is what you get. But is every other character aware of what these glowing eyes mean or how one achieves such? I say no.

Last thing to add before this becomes a book. Let it remain like it is. No one ever complained about this untill it became a hype to play this class. It is metagaming when you as a person, transfer your OOC knowledge towards your character. What you do with it is your desicion. Are you doing it wrong? NO! Are you doing it right? I have no answer on this as it is something about common sense.

You are the one to decide what to with what your character sees and where his/hers lore is at. But! I just hope it remains as it is.

Or at least, if it will be removed... Make it something tied towards an award. Maybe normal award for those who still chooses to reveal their glowing eyes?

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A Mystery Clock
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by A Mystery Clock » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:02 pm

Befemor Borgir wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:49 pm
Last thing to add before this becomes a book. Let it remain like it is. No one ever complained about this untill it became a hype to play this class.
No, not really. This was brought up before. The problem is that before there wasn't an option to remove them, because Arelith had no haks. So there was no point in discussing this, simply because it couldn't have been implemented anyway.

malcolm_mountainslayer
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:20 pm

Why not make glowing eyes a level 30 monk thing?

Infinite Solutions
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Infinite Solutions » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:58 pm

Just make it so you can toggle them on and off? Then those who like the feature can have it, those who don't can pass.

Kalopsia
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Kalopsia » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:01 pm

Could also let people toggle the eyes off, but without an option to toggle them on again. Make it a one time thing, like the -height command.

(Alternatively a dialogue could automatically open at monk level 20 and let the player decide whether or not their char should get glowing eyes.)

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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Ebonstar » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:15 pm

its a level 20 thing because it marks the monks conversion to outsider once they become epic. I still voted get rid of them, because other than marking alignment and min level they dont do anything.

Maybe if they stayed and granted a vision bonus since Monks are in control of their bodies to the highest extent then the eyes would have more meaning
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A Mystery Clock
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by A Mystery Clock » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:28 pm

Kalopsia wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:01 pm
Could also let people toggle the eyes off, but without an option to toggle them on again. Make it a one time thing, like the -height command.

(Alternatively a dialogue could automatically open at monk level 20 and let the player decide whether or not their char should get glowing eyes.)
Personally like this, if there was an option to not have it at all, and the eye glow color was also arbitrary. It could actually open up some interesting RP (ex, using a specific eye glow to represent an attunement rather than an alignment).

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Ork
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Ork » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:14 am

The eyes are a straight gimmick. Perfect self in SRD doesn't make their eyes glow.

TimeAdept
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by TimeAdept » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:52 am

They're a gimmick, but they can be a fun gimmick. If warlocks can do it at level 1, why can't level 20 monks toggle it on and off? Why do we have to be so binary here? We have a perfectly good solution that will litwerally make everyone happy: Those who want it, have it, those who don't, turn it off, and those who want to use it from time to time for dramatic effect can do so as well. We have a perfect compromise solution, that is already in use and to good effect by another class, being shut down because "it looks like a cyborg."

I'm not sure why this argument hit two pages. We already have the solution, and haks let us implement it. A toggle is the most basic fix that makes as many people happy as possible while preserving as much continuity in the server as possible while continunig to honor past and future RP. This really feels like a no brainer to me.

malcolm_mountainslayer
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by malcolm_mountainslayer » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:55 am

I dont agree with necessarily taking them out but agree with Irongron about all in or all out. Warlock has to turn them in to use their fuml power. A monk does it on purpose to "just be cool" when they can just have it off and still be as effective? It would suddenly make every glowing eye monk seem really pretentious.

Nitro
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Nitro » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:21 am

I'd advocate for removing eyeglow from warlocks too. It's a silly gimmick that has no basis in lore.

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Twily
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Twily » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:22 pm

I voted keep.

I also love Izaich's idea of tying the glow color to attunenment.

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RedGiant
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by RedGiant » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:13 pm

While I know its unlikely, I like things like this in players hands, so would prefer any option that allows choice here. (Though I did vote no, simply because as is, the vfx grant a mechanical advantage and an RP disadvantage.)

IF we keep it, I would be excited about any option that either grants choice to turn on/off-leave on/off, accepts player input into color, or simply standardizes the color across the board.


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Ebonstar
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Ebonstar » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:37 am

Twily wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:22 pm
I voted keep.

I also love Izaich's idea of tying the glow color to attunenment.
attunement would be good, if they didnt change once you craft something you might start as water but as soon as you craft you shift to earth
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Ebonstar
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by Ebonstar » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:39 am

RedGiant wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:13 pm
While I know its unlikely, I like things like this in players hands, so would prefer any option that allows choice here. (Though I did vote no, simply because as is, the vfx grant a mechanical advantage and an RP disadvantage.)

IF we keep it, I would be excited about any option that either grants choice to turn on/off-leave on/off, accepts player input into color, or simply standardizes the color across the board.


Side note: Changed my signature line. Thanks hmm! Its been awhile since someone made lose it. I think I have a Marvel hangover. I look back and think, "How did I think any of this was good film?" and "Why did I give them so much premium box office money?"
um as is there is no mechanical benefit to the monk, its just there
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ImWithThisGuy
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Re: Turning off Monk Eye Glow (Poll)

Post by ImWithThisGuy » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:57 am

I have to say I prefer keeping them, With all the downsides they bring; It's a part of what a Monk is as much as the movement speed.

I would, however, say that some restriction might be in order. Perhaps a wisdom threshold, or 30 monk levels as suggested previously. (After all, the feat was originally awarded in PnP to a character with 20 levels in the class; The Maximum possible.) Alternatively, having a single opt in/ opt out option at the time one gains the feat might be a good option, and would allow DM's or other authority figures to remove the glow on those who become problems with it.

I have never been worried too much about metagaming alignment or build because of the glow color. It's something that is easily resolved by a report to the DM's when necessary, or used as a means of furthering roleplay. An evil character proving they are still a 'good' goal oriented person for example, only lacking morals in achieving those goals. At worst, wearing a full helmet to hide the glow when needed would work just as well as no glow at all.

My only worry regarding the eyes has always been that some players are either undesirable of, or more simply incapable of role-playing their meaning. Whether working towards perfecting oneself, or constantly being a Perfect Self, It takes a very particular kind of player to enjoy roleplaying it properly, and there's nothing wrong with that. That said, Perfect Self is far more difficult to roleplay than a bone arm, or a pair of wings.

For those that don't like roleplaying Perfect Self, but do like monk's play-style, I could certainly understand them wanting their glow removed. Very, very few feats actually altar character appearance (something around 3?), and all demand to be role-played. I feel as though Perfect Self is well represented by the glow and should remain, But that it be handled on a more case-by-case, if any changes are to be made at all.

Either:

You have the Perfect Self glow and roleplay the feat.
Or..
You have the Perfect Self feat and do not roleplay the glow, or the feat.

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