Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

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Seven Sons of Sin
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Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:10 pm

Hi, quick questions:

1. Do you get the Parry Shield AC bonus both when you are in Parry Mode, and out of Parry Mode?

2. Parry items, like the wakizashi, are an exception to the Parry Shield Bonus rules of "only wield 1 weapon" - correct?

3. Answering #2, is it then possible to possible to wield a Wakizashi in your offhand, with max Parry, getting the benefits of both TWF and +3 Shield AC?

4. Does this stack with Ranger dual wield AC? (and what is the Ranger dual wield AC)?

5. What are all the "parry items"?
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Barkoneus
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by Barkoneus » Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:25 am

I asked a similar question in the Questions and Answers forum and never got a reply. Based on my experimentation in the PGCC I believe the following to be true:
1. Do you get the Parry Shield AC bonus both when you are in Parry Mode, and out of Parry Mode?
Yes, you get parry mode AC both in and out of parry mode
2. Parry items, like the wakizashi, are an exception to the Parry Shield Bonus rules of "only wield 1 weapon" - correct?
I did not find this to be true. It's quite confusing because the link to "Special parry items" from the wiki takes you to the wakizashi entry, but wielding a wakizashi for me removed all my parry AC. Wakizashi are definitely a special item because they do give you an AC bonus, but it seems innate to the wakizashi, is instead of an attack bonus, and does not seem affected by the parry skill.
3. Answering #2, is it then possible to possible to wield a Wakizashi in your offhand, with max Parry, getting the benefits of both TWF and +3 Shield AC?
Based on (3), no it is not. However if you wield a Damask Wakizashi for example, you will get +3 AC and +3 damage, instead of a regular weapon which gives you +3 AB and +3 damage.
4. Does this stack with Ranger dual wield AC? (and what is the Ranger dual wield AC)?
Didn't try this out, but I'd guess it does.
5. What are all the "parry items"?
No idea! That was my question, and it wasn't answered. Based on a reply in another thread (which I've now lost), I think the parry items might still be in development. I have seen reference to a "parry dagger", but I'm not sure if that's a real thing, or a concept a this stage. There is also a Main Gauche listed in the crafting section, but that simply appears to be a damask dagger with a bonus to parry skill.

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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:21 am

There is a trident dagger in the loot matrix that comes with a pretty heavy parry bonus. Whether this is what is meant by 'parry items,' I've not the foggiest notion.
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Jagel
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by Jagel » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:46 am

“Special parry items” was something discussions in a feedback thread somewhere I think. Items doing no damage (Not the ‘no damage properts’) but granting parry related bonuses.

Maybe it was in one of the threads about parry/ac when it was introduced?

They are not in the module yet

AstralUniverse
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by AstralUniverse » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:33 am

There's that dagger with No damage property and parry bonus, that one should probably work? Really doesnt worth it in any scenario I can think of, anyhow. Maybe there are (or will be) better options.

Also worth pointing out that wakizashi is Shield ac same as parry so there's no point using that along with high parry ac bonus regardless if it worked or not.

I actually dont know what ac type the ranger dual wielding bonus is and I have ranger in my vault. It's a type that stacks with everything but it's not documented to be Dodge in anywhere I could find. Then again, if you have an off-hand attack and no "special" item, it should disable parry ac bonus anyway, as I understand it.
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Seven Sons of Sin
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by Seven Sons of Sin » Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:39 pm

Barkoneus wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:25 am
I asked a similar question in the Questions and Answers forum and never got a reply. Based on my experimentation in the PGCC I believe the following to be true:
1. Do you get the Parry Shield AC bonus both when you are in Parry Mode, and out of Parry Mode?
Yes, you get parry mode AC both in and out of parry mode
2. Parry items, like the wakizashi, are an exception to the Parry Shield Bonus rules of "only wield 1 weapon" - correct?
I did not find this to be true. It's quite confusing because the link to "Special parry items" from the wiki takes you to the wakizashi entry, but wielding a wakizashi for me removed all my parry AC. Wakizashi are definitely a special item because they do give you an AC bonus, but it seems innate to the wakizashi, is instead of an attack bonus, and does not seem affected by the parry skill.
3. Answering #2, is it then possible to possible to wield a Wakizashi in your offhand, with max Parry, getting the benefits of both TWF and +3 Shield AC?
Based on (3), no it is not. However if you wield a Damask Wakizashi for example, you will get +3 AC and +3 damage, instead of a regular weapon which gives you +3 AB and +3 damage.
4. Does this stack with Ranger dual wield AC? (and what is the Ranger dual wield AC)?
Didn't try this out, but I'd guess it does.
5. What are all the "parry items"?
No idea! That was my question, and it wasn't answered. Based on a reply in another thread (which I've now lost), I think the parry items might still be in development. I have seen reference to a "parry dagger", but I'm not sure if that's a real thing, or a concept a this stage. There is also a Main Gauche listed in the crafting section, but that simply appears to be a damask dagger with a bonus to parry skill.
Thanks for your clarity! Yeah, I saw your post, and was hoping someone might respond.

Wakizashis getting that +3 Shield AC WITHOUT Parry seems like an oversight. It functionally lets dual-wielders trade AC for damage in a less dramatic fashion than swapping out a shield. It's even more crazy in the hands of a ranger/monk.

Parry Shield Bonus still seems weird unless you can dual-wield a parry item for nominal damage output. But I guess we've no idea if these parry items exist. Which would make the Parry Shield Bonus purely for aesthetics, which doesn't seem worth the 30 rank investment.
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by The Rambling Midget » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:10 pm

Irongron's proposed parry weapons with AC attached have not been added yet. The existing parry daggers can be found in the weapon rack loot matrix, or purchased from certain NPC vendors.
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AstralUniverse
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by AstralUniverse » Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:42 pm

Seven Sons of Sin wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:39 pm
Wakizashis getting that +3 Shield AC WITHOUT Parry seems like an oversight. It functionally lets dual-wielders trade AC for damage in a less dramatic fashion than swapping out a shield. It's even more crazy in the hands of a ranger/monk.
Not entirely sure what you meant there but Wakizashi shield ac and parry (also shield ac) dont stack together, and parry ac is disabled if you have monk levels. Wakizashi is pretty nice for ranger/monk situationally, but it has nothing to do with parry.
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msterswrdsmn
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by msterswrdsmn » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:40 am

Ranger dual wield AC does not stack with parry ac, as you have to have your offhand free (no shield, no dual wielding) in order to gain parry AC.

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garrbear758
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by garrbear758 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:24 pm

Your offhand must be free to get the parry ac bonus. That's it. There are no hidden items or any other features that let you have an offhand item equipped and still get parry ac.
Edited for grammar, probably

Zanithar
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Re: Parry AC, Parry Mode, TWF, and Weapons

Post by Zanithar » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:17 am

garrbear758 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:24 pm
Your offhand must be free to get the parry ac bonus. That's it. There are no hidden items or any other features that let you have an offhand item equipped and still get parry ac.
I removed the link on the Parry skill update to Wakizashi (I added it in the first place but it was incorrect as that is not a parry item, it is a shield item).

This is the information from the Dev Notes:
From Bjorn Blue Tiger
=================

Parry Shield AC V3
------------
- The AC bonus is now capped by the character BAB until it reaches 20. (+1 at 5, +2 at 10, ..., +4 at 20, then uncapped.)
- Special parry items now benefits from the parry ac bonus when dual wielded. The bonus is however halved in that specific case.
Is this incorrect Garrbear?

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