Oath of the Ancients (cont.)

[Maladus]

This is a continuation from the previous thread (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12826).

I was doing some testing with this build using Cleric/Ftr/CoT instead of Druid/Ftr/CoT and was wondering what your opinion of a level spread for this setup. I tried Cl(15)/Ftr(10)/CoT(5) in my tests last night, but the stats were a bit crazy. I was thinking Cl(10)/Ftr(15)/CoT(5) would be similar but with obviously fewer spells. The stats line up better with the second option, and there are more feats available but I don't get access to level 8 spells.

Any thoughts?

[Jack Oat]

Neither build gets you UMD or Tumble, both take only 5 CoT which shorts you +1 to saves and the extra feat. Both get you way more feats than you really need and, with a Cleric, the fighter bonuses won't affect you greatly at all since the AC bonuses don't stack with your Cleric spells.

[gilescorey]

I still think a cleric is the way to go, maybe with the more traditional spread of a high amount of cleric levels with a dip into fighter and maybe rogue for tumble & umd if you care about pvp.

[Maladus]

The focus of the character is on the RP, not really worried too much about being a PVP powerhouse. Dipping into CoT gives me some of the Paladin-like abilities that puts it more in line with the concept of miming the 5E Paladin while being flexible with things like alignment and deity choice.

[pigman]

The focus of the character is on the RP, not really worried too much about being a PVP powerhouse. Dipping into CoT gives me some of the Paladin-like abilities that puts it more in line with the concept of miming the 5E Paladin while being flexible with things like alignment and deity choice.

what about a simple 25/5 cleric/PDK?
optimal, no. Fun and unique pdk abilities that will stack with cleric spells, yes.
also gets you 4 apr, and full cleric spell list along with some fun epic feats AND the ability to call an angel using gate.

[Sockss]

what about a simple 25/5 cleric/PDK?
optimal, no. Fun and unique pdk abilities that will stack with cleric spells, yes.
also gets you 4 apr, and full cleric spell list along with some fun epic feats AND the ability to call an angel using gate.

+1

So long as you take at least 5 PDK, you'll be relevant and effective. If you take 10, even more so.

PDK has a very paladin feel to the class with huge martial support, inspiration type buffs and even heals. It's also a full BAB class and of flexible alignment.

You don't necessarily need to optimise it, but you'll be very effective simply by taking PDK. It's certainly a better choice to Fighter or CoT.

I'd recommend 17/3/10 as optimal for this type of build (Cleric/Bard/PDK), you'll be able to grab tumble and UMD that way.

[kittenblackfriends]

I know people say you need to dip 4 full AB classes pre-20 when you're maining a 3/4ths AB class (like cleric or druid) to get an extra APR.

I think, conceptually, CoT is going to fit you better than fighter, and is just plain better than fighter. However, as a prestige class, it doesn't affect your APR, it looks like.

Divine wrath lets you get paladin ubersaves, as well as essentially divine might, without a big CHA investment.

Cleric, you would probably take the Plant and Good, Travel, or Animal domains. None of these are good exactly (though Plant is amusing because you can turn spiders). I'd go with Plant and Animal if you go Silvanus, since Animal lets you take Cat's Grace - which means you can leave your DEX at 8 if you take Maximize Spell later. Plant and Travel for Shaundakul.

I'm looking at Cleric 15 (for Aura vs Alignment and +5 barkskin from Clr13), maybe 5 fighter and 10 CoT? As they've said, PDK is also a good martial support - which is more or less what a paladin is mechanically. Could be easily swapped in for CoT and you'd get pretty good use out of it. Just make sure your 4th or 5th fighter level ends on a feat snag so you can get Epic Wep Spec.

If you have a 2H weapon, you want to take Disarm/Imp Disarm (which greatly increases your AB vs smaller weaponed targets). If you're going sword and board, you want Knockdown. Again, these are offensive support feats.

[gilescorey]

Speaking strictly in terms of numbers, Plant and Travel are among the best domains, especially Travel. Animal and Good are not very strong.

[Maladus]

Speaking strictly in terms of numbers, Plant and Travel are among the best domains, especially Travel. Animal and Good are not very strong.

For Domains I was definitely thinking Plant as the first, but the second one is a little more interesting. I like the idea of keeping it closer to the theme for RP purposes, so Earth makes sense to me and I get Stoneskin and Energy Buffer for some really nice defensive buffs from that.

Thoughts?

[gilescorey]

Earth is not a very strong domain. Strength is quite good though, and gives you access to Stoneskin as well as more slots of Divine Power.

[Maladus]

Ah yeah, Strength looks pretty good. The Divine Strength active ability looks nice too.