Archer + disable trap?

[Artenides]

Is there a build for an archer type character that happen to be able to disable traps + open locks? My understanding is that if there is not enough AA in a build, the damage output will be very bad, but with too many AA levels can a reasonably high disable traps + open locks be achieved? I read somewhere that for rogues it is better to go melee.

[Baron Saturday]

I've found that you don't really need many ranks of open lock or disable trap. 1 rank of each + stat bonuses + gear with +2 disable/open and you're pretty much set for 90% of locked doors.

[The1Kobra]

To get disable trap and open lock, you would want some rogue or assassin levels, though rogue is probably easier to manage. You should be able to do with something like 7/4/19 Rogue/Ranger/AA (6/4/10 Pre-epic), or possibly something like 13/4/13 if you want to grab epic dodge and more rogue goodies.

If you start with a ranger level you can take one of the archery paths, though if you start with rogue you get more skill points. I would probably start with ranger, though. Especially since Arelith ups their skills/level to 6. It does mean you have to take 11+ WIS, though.

[Artenides]

Hi both,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have only a few questions left.

7/4/19 Rogue/Ranger/AA (6/4/10 Pre-epic), or possibly something like 13/4/13 if you want to grab epic dodge and more rogue goodies.

Do you guys think it is better for going 13 rogue for the rogue goodies? Or the more AA levels the better? What would be the level by level build for these? I would definitely start with ranger for the archer path.

Human or Elf? Elf is nice with the additional dex and the extra language but I have found it very difficult to walk with those. Even when using the -alwayswalk option it looks wierd. Playing a human is nice for the extra feat.

For taking AA levels you must be lawful right?

[msterswrdsmn]

You don't need to be lawful to be an AA, but you MUST be either an elf or half-elf

You COULD go 13 rogue for more rogue abilities, but it will defintely hinder your longer-long range combat abilities. Rogue archers are best closer-up, within sneak attack range, and are more party reliant. More AA levels means less damage potential, but the damage you can do is going to be more consistant and accurate, works against sneak-immune things, and doesn't require you being up close

Also; ranger needs to be your starting class to get the archer path benefits.

[Artenides]

Thanks!
I have found this build on the forum. Could you help me alter it to be 7/4/19 Rogue/Ranger/AA (6/4/10 Pre-epic):

Ranger(16), Arcane Archer(11), Rogue(3), Elf

STR: 10
DEX: 20 (28)
CON: 14
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 8

Elf: (Hardiness vs. Enchantments, Keen Sense, Low-light Vision, Skill Affinity: Listen, Skill Affinity: Search, Skill Affinity: Spot, Sleeplessness)
01: Ranger(1): Weapon Focus: Longbow, Favored Enemy I, {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Ranger(4): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
05: Ranger(5): Favored Enemy II
06: Ranger(6): Point Blank Shot
07: Arcane Archer(1)
08: Arcane Archer(2): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
09: Arcane Archer(3): Called Shot
10: Arcane Archer(4)
11: Arcane Archer(5)
12: Arcane Archer(6): DEX+1, Rapid Shot, (DEX=23)
13: Arcane Archer(7)
14: Arcane Archer(8)
15: Arcane Archer(9): Blind Fight
16: Ranger(7): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
17: Ranger(8)
18: Ranger(9): Improved Critical: Longbow, {Improved Two-Weapon Fighting}
19: Ranger(10): Favored Enemy III
20: Arcane Archer(10): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
21: Arcane Archer(11): Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
22: Ranger(11)
23: Ranger(12)
24: Ranger(13): DEX+1, Armor Skin, (DEX=26)
25: Rogue(1)
26: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
27: Rogue(3): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, {Uncanny Dodge I}
28: Ranger(14): DEX+1, (DEX=27)
29: Ranger(15): Epic Prowess
30: Ranger(16): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=28)

Hitpoints: 326
Skillpoints: 210
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 21/13/24
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +3, Mind Effects: +2
BAB: 25
AB (max, naked): 35 (melee), 44 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 27/30
Spell Casting: Ranger(4)
Alignment Changes: 0

Disable Trap 1(3), Discipline 33(43), Heal 23(25), Hide 33(42), Listen 33(37), Move Silently 33(42), Open Lock 1(10), Spellcraft 16(18), Tumble 30(39), UMD 21(20)

[Baron Saturday]

Keep in mind that AA doesn't get discipline, so a 7/4/19 is gonna be pretty vulnerable to disarm/KD/called shot. I'd go 7/6/17 instead, starting out 4 ranger/3 rogue/10 AA, saving the last rogue level for 27 and the last ranger level for 30. You get... 234 skill points, I think? 242 if the two bonus points get properly multiplied at ranger 1.

I might go with Discipline 33, Hide 33, Move Silently 33, Spellcraft 16, Tumble 30, UMD 16, Disable Trap 20, Open Lock 20, Search 17. It honestly depends how much you want to invest into disable trap/open lock.

[The1Kobra]

Well, here is what you could do.

Primary AA First
By the way, it may be a good idea to go 5 ranger instead, because it will get you a bonus feat in epic on the 5th ranger level. Though the 7th rogue level does get you more sneak attack. If you do this, I would recommend going 5/6/19 Ranger/Rogue/AA instead.

01: Ranger(1): Weapon Focus: Longbow, Favored Enemy I (Recommended: Undead), {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Rogue(1): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
05: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
06: Rogue(3): Point Blank Shot
07: Rogue(4):
08: Arcane Archer(1): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
09: Arcane Archer(2): Rapid Shot
10: Arcane Archer(3)
11: Arcane Archer(4)
12: Arcane Archer(5): DEX+1, Improved Critical: Longbow, (DEX=23)
13: Arcane Archer(6)
14: Arcane Archer(7)
15: Arcane Archer(8): Blind Fight
16: Arcane Archer(9): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
17: Arcane Archer(10):
18: Ranger(4): Called Shot
19: Rogue(5):
20: Rogue(6): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
21: Arcane Archer(11): Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
22: Arcane Archer(12):
23: Arcane Archer(13):
24: Arcane Archer(14): DEX+1, Armor Skin, Great Dexterity 1 (DEX=27)
25: Arcane Archer(15):
26: Arcane Archer(16):
27: Arcane Archer(17): Epic Skill Focus: Spot (Or Discipline, but I think spot is better)
28: Arcane Archer(18): DEX+1, Great Dexterity 2 (DEX=29)
29: Arcane Archer(19):
30: Ranger(5): Epic Prowess, Great Dexterity 3, (DEX=30)

Now for the rogue heavy one:

01: Ranger(1): Weapon Focus: Longbow, Favored Enemy I (Recommended: Undead), {Dual Wield}
02: Ranger(2)
03: Ranger(3): Weapon Finesse
04: Rogue(1): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
05: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
06: Rogue(3): Point Blank Shot
07: Rogue(4):
08: Arcane Archer(1): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
09: Arcane Archer(2): Rapid Shot
10: Arcane Archer(3)
11: Arcane Archer(4)
12: Arcane Archer(5): DEX+1, Improved Critical: Longbow, (DEX=23)
13: Arcane Archer(6)
14: Arcane Archer(7)
15: Arcane Archer(8): Blind Fight
16: Arcane Archer(9): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
17: Arcane Archer(10):
18: Rogue(5): Called Shot
19: Rogue(6):
20: Rogue(7): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
21: Arcane Archer(11): Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
22: Rogue(8):
23: Rogue(9):
24: Rogue(10): DEX+1, Armor Skin, IMPR Evasion (DEX=26)
25: Rogue(11):
26: Arcane Archer(12):
27: Arcane Archer(13): Great Dexterity 1 (DEX=27)
28: Rogue(13): DEX+1, (DEX=28)
29: Ranger(4): (Alternatively, take AA and grab epic prowess for your bonus feat. I would recommend the disc skill dump, though)
30: Rogue(13): Defensive Roll, Epic Dodge

Pick which one you like. Hope this helps!

[Artenides]

Love you guys, thanks!

[TheShadowdove]

The suggestions so far are all solid.

AA is good for AB and some damage but there are other ways to be an Archer. Instead of standing your ground and pounding arrows into folks with a high attack bonus, you could go the stealth route. Which may actually be safer, and situationally higher dps.

A rogue primary build could rely on sneak attack while still being an Archer. You'd just have to be okay with fleeing in PvP during that hips timer, because you'd need flat-footed foes to score the sneak damage and or bane of enemies.

You'd also need HIPS. Either via 16 ranger or 5 SD. If not HIPS you'd need a good distraction via allies (NPC or player).

Rogue fighter SD would be easiest.

Alternatively, a ranger rogue SD.

With ranger fighter rogue being a doable.