Wizard Help

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Kalos
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Wizard Help

Post by Kalos » Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:05 pm

I was looking at cookie-cutter wizard build, but I have some questions.

I am thinking of an evocation gnome wizard. Would like to end with:

ESF: Evocation
ESF: Transmutation
GSF: Conjuration
ESF: Illusion

Is this possible or viable?
Would I still get one or two epic spells?
Which metamagic feat is critical or order of importance (Empower, Maximize, Extend)

Thank you.

Arienette
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Arienette » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:26 pm

Yes, the proposed feats are possible.

You should have 4 epic feats available. So you can get the 3 ESFs you want, and one Epic spell such as EDK.

If you dont dip into bard or similar you could get an additional epic spell. But most would reccomend you take the dip for Discipline.

You want extend and maximize. Empower is optional.

You might consider taking your epic spell as Hellball to make full use of ESF Evon especially considering recent-ish EDK nerf.

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Kalos
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Kalos » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:34 pm

Thank you. Is Hellball better than Greater Ruin? Do I "need" two Epic Spells or is one ok? Meaning, should I change my build plan?

Um..and if I screwed up and already took Empower...Should I be looking at scrapping lvl5 char and starting over?

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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:54 pm

If your wizard is pure class, you'll get scribe scroll, sf illusion, 7 pre epic feats, and another 4 bonus metamagic feats. You'll also get 4 epic feats and 3 bonus epic feats from wizard. So yes, you can get all those epic spell foci, and still have 3 epic feats to spare for epic spells, and 3 more pre epic feats for extend maximize and quicken, but you'll deprive yourself of a metamagic level and give up spell penetration.

Imo the extra versatility and spell pen you get by picking three schools instead of 4 is better as a wizard.
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Wuthering
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Wuthering » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:09 pm

If you dip 3 or 4 levels consider ranger since you can take a greater or epic spell focus feat instead of favored enemy on level 1. That also allows use of divine wands so you probably won't miss not having UMD

You can easily take 4 epic focus feats on a wizard and while it's not the absolute optimum build I think the RP tools you get are totally worth it and make the game much more fun to play. On the other hand if you want the best evocation PVP killing machine sorcerer is a better option.

As for hellball and greater ruin-- I think Hellball's greatest strength is knocking the target down? Greater ruin seems like it's good as a guaranteed way to finish someone off when their HP is down. I think dragon knight may beat both if you are choosing between them, even though it's been nerfed it's still strong.

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Kalos
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Kalos » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:13 am

Here is what I am thinking. This seems viable based on your inputs.

Gnome Wizard
STR: 12
DEX: 8
CON: 16 (18 w/ gift)
WIS: 8
INT: 18 (20 w/ gift) (28)
CHA: 8

01: Wizard(1): Spell Focus 1: Evocation, {Scribe Scroll}
02: Wizard(2)
03: Wizard(3): Greater Spell Focus 1: Evocation
04: Wizard(4): INT+1, (INT=21)
05: Wizard(5): Extend Spell
06: Wizard(6): Spell Focus 2: Conjuration
07: Wizard(7)
08: Wizard(8): INT+1 (INT=22)
09: Wizard(9): Greater Spell Focus 2: Conjuration
10: Wizard(10): Spell Focus 3: Transmutation
11: Wizard(11)
12: Wizard(12): INT+1 (INT=23), Greater Spell Focus 3: Transmutation
13: Wizard(13)
14: Wizard(14)
15: Wizard(15): Craft Wand, Maximize Spell
16: Wizard(16): INT+1, (INT=24)
17: Wizard(17)
18: Wizard(18): Greater Spell Focus 4: Illusion
19: Bard(1)
20: Bard(2): INT+1, (INT=25)
21: Bard(3): Epic Spell Focus 1: Evocation
22: Wizard(19)
23: Wizard(20): Epic Spell Focus 2: Illusion
24: Wizard(21): INT+1, Epic Spell: Dragon Knight, (INT=26)
25: Wizard(22)
26: Wizard(23): Epic Spell Focus 3: Transmutation
27: Wizard(24): Epic Spell Focus 4: Conjuration
28: Wizard(25): INT+1, (INT=27)
29: Bard(4)
30: Wizard(26): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, Epic Spell: Hellball

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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Radki » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:45 pm

Kalos wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:13 am
Here is what I am thinking. This seems viable based on your inputs.

Gnome Wizard
STR: 12
DEX: 8
CON: 16 (18 w/ gift)
WIS: 8
INT: 18 (20 w/ gift) (28)
CHA: 8

01: Wizard(1): Spell Focus 1: Evocation, {Scribe Scroll}
02: Wizard(2)
03: Wizard(3): Greater Spell Focus 1: Evocation
04: Wizard(4): INT+1, (INT=21)
05: Wizard(5): Extend Spell
06: Wizard(6): Spell Focus 2: Conjuration
07: Wizard(7)
08: Wizard(8): INT+1 (INT=22)
09: Wizard(9): Greater Spell Focus 2: Conjuration
10: Wizard(10): Spell Focus 3: Transmutation
11: Wizard(11)
12: Wizard(12): INT+1 (INT=23), Greater Spell Focus 3: Transmutation
13: Wizard(13)
14: Wizard(14)
15: Wizard(15): Craft Wand, Maximize Spell
16: Wizard(16): INT+1, (INT=24)
17: Wizard(17)
18: Wizard(18): Greater Spell Focus 4: Illusion
19: Bard(1)
20: Bard(2): INT+1, (INT=25)
21: Bard(3): Epic Spell Focus 1: Evocation
22: Wizard(19)
23: Wizard(20): Epic Spell Focus 2: Illusion
24: Wizard(21): INT+1, Epic Spell: Dragon Knight, (INT=26)
25: Wizard(22)
26: Wizard(23): Epic Spell Focus 3: Transmutation
27: Wizard(24): Epic Spell Focus 4: Conjuration
28: Wizard(25): INT+1, (INT=27)
29: Bard(4)
30: Wizard(26): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, Epic Spell: Hellball
I'm pretty sure that you cannot put ESF at 21th lvl as bard, but maybe my knowledge is bit rusty. If it isn't I'd swap ESF discipline with ESF evo or start being bard at level 18. In addition I'd move GSF conjuration to levels 1-3 for simple QoL, since your meat shield will be stronger at earlier levels, to be honest, I would even put GSF transmutation earlier than evo, since magic missle... isn't big game changer, I will look at it at PGCC and edit the post later if I will notice something else.
But overfall it looks very stable.

EDIT:
So, first of all, when you do your stat points, you are left with 2 more to dispose, I'd move it into 13th point of str or to push your dex to 10.
Yeah, my bad, you're able to pick ESF at bard levels, idk why I still think that one cannot do that.
Alright, I can't find the source of 28th point of INT in this build, but perhaps you had in mind that you will stick with GSF conj and get a great INT feat.
Also, I can't find a place for ESF discipline
So far that's all.

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Kalos
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Kalos » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:25 pm

I made this character on the Arelith PGCC server. Except, I did go 10 Wis.

I find that the magic missile spam helps a great deal at lower levels, and I like it better than just watching my summons. That's why I switched Evo and Conj.

I did end with 27 Int. to get the Epic Discipline instead.

Radki
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Radki » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:46 pm

Kalos wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:25 pm
I did end with 27 Int. to get the Epic Discipline instead.
Well, then that 1 point in INT is kinda pointless, since it grants you nothing. You can use it to push CON or STR a little bit higher I believe.

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Kalos
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Kalos » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:24 pm

Thank you for the great feedback.

Arienette
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Arienette » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:23 pm

Hellball is probably more powerful tha G Ruin. But remember Hellball is not party-friendly.

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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Orian_666 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:16 pm

Taking a 3 ranger dip in epics is far better now since the UMD changes.
It means you'll get your discipline a lot later but it nets you an extra feat over dipping bard and access to all divine wands anyway, that plus a wizards naturally high Lore which grants access to scrolls makes a bard dip pointless, there's no benefit over Bard instead of Ranger nowadays.
If you want cookiecutter/optimal wizard then take the ranger dip instead of bard.

Nobs
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Nobs » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:19 am

rangers dont get bluff nor tumble right?

Wuthering
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Wuthering » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:38 am

How much tumble do wizards need? 15 cross classed should be fine unless they're a spellsword. They're never going to have high AC anyway so 3 more points isnt making a difference.

Bluff of course is another matter.. If you're going to build a character around it you don't want ranger. If it's something you use every now and then you may be able to cross class and use enchanted gear. I dunno.

I'd actually argue for specialist dips as ideal for wizards if you can spare one feat to get it.

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Kalos
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Re: Wizard Help

Post by Kalos » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:14 pm

I am thinking of bard for Tumble, Bluff, and Appraise and UMD.

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