Fighter / Monk / Weapon Master

[a shrouded figure]

Well... this one is guaranteed to be terrible... but I'm obsessed with weapon masters so here we go...

Human
Lawful
Gift of Dex, Gift of Wisdom

STR: 10
DEX: 16 + 2, 18 (26)
Con: 14
Wis: 14 + 2, 16
INT: 14
CHA: 8

1: Fighter (1): Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon, Ambidexterity
2: Fighter (2): Expertise
3: Fighter (3): Weapon Focus
4: Monk (1): --
5: Monk (2): --
6: Monk (3): Dodge
7: Fighter (4): Weapon Specialization
8: FIghter (5): --
9: Fighter (6): Mobility, Spring Attack
10: FIghter (7): --
11: Fighter (8): Whirlwind Attack
12: WM (1): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon of Choice
13: WM (2): --
14: WM (3): --
15: WM (4): Improved Critical
16: WM (5): --
17: WM (6): --
18: WM (7): Blind Fight
19: Monk (4): --
20: FIghter (9): --
21: Fighter (10): Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization
22: Monk (5): --
23: Monk (6): -- {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}
24: Monk (7): Great Dexterity
25: Monk (8): --
26: Monk (9): --
27: Monk (10): Armor Skin
28: Monk (11): --
29: Monk (12): --
30: Monk (13): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline

I assume it'll not do any damage and probably just be totally garbage, but I think it looks fun. Quarterstaff or Kama master, tons of tiny tiny attacks and should have nice AC / AB... Wish I could fit Improved Expertise but I wanted to go 12 Monk for Uncanny Dodge.

[Mattamue]

55ish ac buffed
Not far off from f/r/wm with plate and shield which is around 52

24 Bab? 14 dex mod... 46ish ab buffed not bad, but rough against higher ac... Maybe some monk ab I'm missing?

1000% good idea to get uncanny, getting flat footed would hurt, even if you don't lose monk ac

[Ebonstar]

i wouldnt bother with imp two weapon fighting and take fighter on level 30 to get an extra feat if i recall correctly and if your not going for epic dodge (which you cant get without rogue) flip two points down on dex to str to give you some power.

Then trip stat your monk gear str wis dex and str con dex

But thats just me Ive been told i dont build well anyhow

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

This is my version of what you're going for, but when I was building this I realized something- if you're going for a dex based 10APR build, unless you're going STR, weaponmaster levels don't really help you out that much- it would be better to dump them for rogue levels and add an extra 4d6 potential sneak damage to each attack for a total potential of an extra 40d6 sneak on target per round, as opposed to critting more frequently without a solid STR score to back it up. x3 crits at 13-20 on an essenced weapon is still helpful, but sneaks are easier to guarantee than crits.

Regardless - here's how I went at what you're going for.


***
If I'm understanding your build correctly, the intention is to hit the 10 APR mark with kamas on a weaponmaster, but at that many APR, I'd suggest flipping the fighter levels for rogue levels (more of them) and fewer monk levels- by the time your build gets 25 SR, it's not going to help you with much of anything that is an actual threat.

Str: 9 (1 point)
Dex: 17 (13 points) (+2 Gift), 19 (26)
Con: 14 (6 points)
Wis: 12 (4 points) (+2 gift) 14
Int: 14 (6 points)
Cha: 8 (0 points)

Rogue 16/ Monk 7 / Weapon Master 7
This combination of levels is going to get you wholeness of body and the other nice monk goodies that you want. Your base unarmed damage won't matter because you're going Kama.

Rogue 1: Expertise, Dodge 1d6 Sneak
2: - Weapon Finesse (Rogue Perk), Evasion (Rog2)
3: - Mobility, Uncanny Dodge I (Rog3) 2d6 Sneak
(Mnk1)4: Cleave, Monk AC Bonus, Stunning Fist, Evasion(redundant), FoB, IUS +1 Dex
5: Deflect arrows (Mnk2) WF: Unarmed (Mnk2 Perk)
6: WF: Kama, Monk Speed +10% (Mnk3)
(Rog4)7: -
8: 3d6 Sneak +1 Dex
9: Spring Attack, Uncanny Dodge II (Rog6)
(Rog7)10: Sneak +4d6
(Rog9)12: Whirlwind Attack +1 Dex
(WpM1)13: Ki Damage, WoC: Kama
14: -
15: Blind Fight
16: +1 Dex
17: Increased Crit Mulitiplier: Kama (2->3), Superior Weapon Focus: Kama
18: Improved Critical: Kama (17-20, 15-20 with keen)
(WpM7)19: Ki Critical (17-20 -> 15-20, 15-20 -> 13-20)
(Mnk4)20: +1 Dex ; 24 Dex, +16/+9/+4/-1 BAB, 214 HP @ 20, 184 skill points (5 Intimidate, 23 Discipline, 23 Tumble, 23 UMD, 23 Lore, 23 Hide, 23 Move Silently, 23 Spot, 18 ranks Skill of Choice)
(Rog10)21: EWF: Kama, Improved Evasion(Rog10), Keen Senses (Rog10 Perk)
22: Uncanny Dodge III(Rog11), Sneak +6d6
23: Smoke Screen rogue grenade(Rog12),
24: Blinding Speed, Defensive Roll(Rog13), Sneak +7d6, +1 Dex (25)
(Mnk5)25: Purity of Body
26: KD, IKD, Monk Speed +20%(Mnk6)
(Rog14)27: Epic Dodge(Tumble30), +2Spot/Listen(Rog14 Perk), Holy Grenade (Rog14 Perk)
28: Sneak +8d6, +1 Dex (26)
(Mnk7)29: Wholeness of Body
(Rog16)30: Epic Prowess, Crippling Strike(Rog16)

314 Base HP

Geared, you wind up with 38 dex for +14, and 8 APR with haste (blinding speed), with 8d6 sneak possible per attack and a BAB of 21- hasted, this allows you to potentially apply an extra 64d6 sneak damage on target, from stealth or as a hit and run.

Assuming +3, Keen, 2 elemental property weapon, unbuffed and unhasted your flurry AB looks something like +40/+37/+34/+31/+28/+25/+40, and haste adds another +40 to the front of that. This accommodates your weapon foci and your flurry penalties. You can also pop blinding speed while drinking a true strike potion... which makes the tactic of outrunning the true strike potion a bit difficult if they aren't already hasted, (to say nothing of coming out of stealth with it.)

Your unbuffed AC with only stat bonuses on gear is EDIT: 32 37(forgot tumble AC)38 (forgot Dodge Feat -.-;), before any deflection, dodge, natural, or shield buffs (and you're mundane, so most of these will be impossible to dispel) and also before expertise, or epic dodge. With +5 clothes, +5 deflection, +5 nat, haste, and expertise, that works out to up to 62 AC and Epic Dodge.

You can ignore some class restrictions on some items, use all the wands, and get access to 6th level scrolls with 33 lore ranks +2 int mod- which the fighter version is desperately crying out for, IMO. (Edit Again: and 15 ranks of lore on gear will get you 7th, which opens up some incredibly useful options.)

Edit: I fixed the AB progressions and APR. Had to do some digging for it! New Edit: I'm a dumb, and I fixed this. Kama can be replaced with any monk weapon, but preferably a two-handed one with a higher crit modifier, so at least you're getting something out of not having a second thing in your second hand. Build now gets epic prowess and blinding speed. 16 Rogue levels drops the cooldown to six minutes, which isn't awful considering it lasts for three.

[Wuthering]

i wouldnt bother with imp two weapon fighting and take fighter on level 30 to get an extra feat if i recall correctly and if your not going for epic dodge (which you cant get without rogue) flip two points down on dex to str to give you some power.

Either take all 3 two-weapon fighting feats or don't take any. Two feats for one extra attack is a waste. Improved Expertise would be missed but if you're doing this for maximum attacks go all the way.

I also agree with the above, though. You can probably still make a decent monk weaponmaster but this isn't the way to do it and the whole point of WM is to make a weapon with a high crit range extremely deadly. Kamas and quarterstaffs aren't those weapons, they're still going to be lackluster even with a boosted crit range. Maybe a Katana, if that still works (haven't kept up on that.)

[AstralUniverse]

I gave it a try and came up with this str build for Naginata, which is by far the best weapon to combine monk and weapon master due to the number of apr mixed with crits of 16-20 x4. It is very gear reliant though. I expect ac to be a problem before end-game gear is online. There's also a 20 fighter, 7wm 3 monk variation of that which is about the same but more feats and monk dip late.

Human
STR: 14(16) > 24
DEX: 14
CON: 14 (16)
WIS: 14
INT: 14
CHA: 8

16 fighter, 7 wm, 7 monk

01: Monk(1): Courteous Magocracy, expertise, {Cleave, Evasion, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist}
02: Monk(2): {Deflect Arrows}
03: Monk(3): weapon focus(polarm)
04: Fighter(1): STR+1, dodge, (STR=17)
05: Fighter(2): mobility
06: Fighter(3): improved expertise
07: Fighter(4): weapon specialization
08: Fighter(5): STR+1, (STR=18)
09: Fighter(6): spring attack, Whirlwind Attack
10: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Naginata
11: Weapon Master(2)
12: Weapon Master(3): STR+1, blind fight, (STR=19)
13: Weapon Master(4)
14: Weapon Master(5)
15: Weapon Master(6): toughness
16: Weapon Master(7): STR+1, (STR=20)
17: Monk(4)
18: Fighter(7): disarm
19: Fighter(8): improved disarm
20: Fighter(9): STR+1, (STR=21)
21: Fighter(10): great strength I, epin weapon focus, (STR=22)
22: Monk(5)
23: Monk(6): {Knockdown, Improved Knockdown}
24: Fighter(11): STR+1, epic skill focus: lore, (STR=23)
25: Fighter(12): armor skin
26: Fighter(13)
27: Fighter(14): epic will, epic weapon specialization
28: Fighter(15): STR+1, (STR=24)
29: Fighter(16): epic prowess
30: Monk(7): skill focus: lore OR Epic skill focus: discipline

Skills: 33 discipline, 33 heal, 33 lore, 30 tumble, 4 intimidate, 16 spellcraft, 20 free.

Hp: 586 (max con)
Ab: 47
Ac: 52 (barkskin, haste, no IE)
Saves: 25 fort, 25, will, 24 reflex (buffed, no save gear)

[a shrouded figure]

I had thought about trying to build around naginata as it would save a lot of heartache- but it’s my understanding this weapon isn’t even in game?

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

i wouldnt bother with imp two weapon fighting and take fighter on level 30 to get an extra feat if i recall correctly and if your not going for epic dodge (which you cant get without rogue) flip two points down on dex to str to give you some power.

Either take all 3 two-weapon fighting feats or don't take any. Two feats for one extra attack is a waste. Improved Expertise would be missed but if you're doing this for maximum attacks go all the way.

Taking Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting isn't for extra attacks- by not taking IMPROVED two-weapon fighting, you are losing ONE attack.

If you are going to dual wield, you should *always* take ambidexterity and two weapon fighting, with or without Improved Two Weapon Fighting. ITWF gives you one extra attack, but without Ambidexterity and TWF, all of your main-hand attacks are made at -6, and all of your offhand attacks are made at -10. It's a waste to build for extra attacks at all if they're all 30-50% more likely to miss.

[Wuthering]

I.. Don't know why you are contradicting me. The purpose of dual-wielding is to have extra attacks (yes, by reducing the penalties for off-hand wielding, but in the end reducing the penalties is so you can effectively use two weapons to get that extra swing.)

So if you're going to use two feats to get that one extra attack (or to make it viable by reducing penalties which is essentially the same thing) I think you should go all the way and get the last feat to have all the attacks you can. Especially on a character that's all about maximizing number of blows like this one.

[a shrouded figure]

So I really like the naginata build, I think what I’m going to do is ...

14/14/14/14/14/8

Str / Dex gifts (IMP two weapon)

16/7/7

Quarter Staff (Strength)

[AstralUniverse]

So I really like the naginata build, I think what I’m going to do is ...

14/14/14/14/14/8

Str / Dex gifts (IMP two weapon)

16/7/7

Quarter Staff (Strength)

I recommend against it. 2 more apr is nice but it doesnt worth giving up the Naginata base damage and crit multiplier and it costs you 3 more feats. Are we under the assumption Naginata doesnt exist?

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I.. Don't know why you are contradicting me. The purpose of dual-wielding is to have extra attacks (yes, by reducing the penalties for off-hand wielding, but in the end reducing the penalties is so you can effectively use two weapons to get that extra swing.)

So if you're going to use two feats to get that one extra attack (or to make it viable by reducing penalties which is essentially the same thing) I think you should go all the way and get the last feat to have all the attacks you can. Especially on a character that's all about maximizing number of blows like this one.

I brought up the contradictory point because when you're dual wielding kamas as a monk with flurry you actually gain ***FOUR*** extra attacks (2 main 2 of f) WITHOUT ITWF, and you don't want them made at -6 and -10.

In any other instance not involving monk levels, you'd be correct, but not here.

[Hunter548]

I brought up the contradictory point because when you're dual wielding kamas as a monk with flurry you actually gain ***FOUR*** extra attacks (2 main 2 of f) WITHOUT ITWF, and you don't want them made at -6 and -10.

No you don't. You get 2 extra attacks from dual-wielding - one for dual wielding, one for ITWF. Flurry behaves the same if you're dual wielding or not.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I brought up the contradictory point because when you're dual wielding kamas as a monk with flurry you actually gain ***FOUR*** extra attacks (2 main 2 of f) WITHOUT ITWF, and you don't want them made at -6 and -10.

No you don't. You get 2 extra attacks from dual-wielding - one for dual wielding, one for ITWF. Flurry behaves the same if you're dual wielding or not.

... I know better to argue with Hunter when he makes mechanical statements, so I went back while I wasn't at work and read the tables and notes much closer- on that note, I see the two spots I didn't put together correctly last time and didn't accommodate for the +16 BAB, using the table's +15 intead.

My bad, ya'll are right. Take all three or take none.

Edit: Also, in light of that, dropped my version's TWF and Ambi feats for actual epic feats and changed numbers appropriately. Primary reason for going rogue over fighter is 62 AC (In expertise, not improved- could drop epic prowess for IE and hit 67,) + Epic dodge, and crippling strike +8d6 sneak damage on 8 attacks/round. (Which can VERY quickly swing a melee fight irrevocably in your favor until the restoration hits- at which point, you corner sneak and start again).

[BoredGM]

Still new to the server but I remember covering something like this on another server I've played on. From what I saw there was a base engine mistake on the actual ab progression with haste, which was a common effect on my previous server after a certain level. I'm not sure if haste is common enough here but I thought I'd post what I saw for consideration.
Also, if the base engine progression has been modified from before so it isn't this way, that would be news as well...

With Haste:
Regular Two Weapon Fighting
+18, +13, +8, +3
+18, +13
+20 (Hasted attack)

Regular Unarmed Base Attack Bonus
+20, +17, +14, +11, +8, +5
+20 (Hasted)
Flurry of Blows
+18, +15, +12, +9, +6, +3
+18 (Hasted), +13 (That's right, -5 on the flurry)

On the previous server kama's weren't available, but the point is you might want to check the engine/combat log to see what the actual attack progression for the 10 apr will be. It might not be entirely "correct".

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I had thought about trying to build around naginata as it would save a lot of heartache- but it’s my understanding this weapon isn’t even in game?

Naginata exists. I used and have sold a few. For months now.