True Flame Sorcerer: How-To-Build?

[BossRoss]

So I took interest in the True Flame Sorcerer, but I'm not very keen on mage classes, they've never really were my thing in TTRPG DND, just too many things to keep track of I guess. But being on NWN I figured it wouldn't hurt to at least give it a go and try it out for once just to see what's the big deal about them. In doing so, I had my heart on just constructing the typical full, max level True Flame Sorcerer.

The race would be a female Drow. Neutral Evil. I'm not really savvy as to what I am to do to go about setting her up. Since it being my first time ever really playing a mage class. I'd really appreciate some tips. Like in accordance to stats and skills, along with feats too.

I've already been suggested to multi-class, or just resort to being a warlock instead, but I've really had my heart set on the straight True Flame Sorcerer.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Placeholder- on a 14 hour shift, I'll dig up my sun elf glass cannon tf build and post it when I get home. A drow should be compatible, but will edge out the cha on mine by +2 iirc.

I'll also include some of my bread and butter tactics specific to a glass cannon beyond the typical darkness spam if you like. You can do all sorts of things making clever use of your familiar and shelgarns.

[BossRoss]

Oh sweet! I was kinda going the "hellfire and brimstone" kind of thing. But that sound really freaking cool! I look forward to what you've got. This is exciting.

[The1Kobra]

TF sorcerers are typically glass cannons, dishing out a lot of power but are pretty fragile.

You probably want to go 27/3 or 30 sorc, with the splash being bard or sometimes paladin/BG (BG if NE aligned). BG can get you divine shield and good saves. Though even with divine shield your AC will be junk. The saving throws can be a lifesaver, though. Bard provides several useful skill dumps.

For feats, you'll want Quicken, Autoquicken 1-3 (Since you can't self-cast haste, this will greatly increase your damage output), ESF evocation. Probably empower or maximize, and spell penetration if you have spare feats, since you'll have no other way to reduce SR and no way to deal reliable damage without it.

You could focus on CHA, or you could go for 21 CON and grab the EDR feats. Admittedly going for EDR will be hard on a drow given the CON penalty.

I have thought of making a 25/5 TF sorc/SD which can HIPS out of danger. TFs are pretty fragile, so any defensive boons can help a lot. That said, giving up 5 levels for a TF can be a lot.

[Kenji]

Here are some sample builds:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
The tabs of the above sheet include:
26 TF / 4 Paladin or BG, Auto-Quicken 3 with Hellball
26 TF / 4 Paladin or BG, Auto-Still 3 with Hellball
26 TF / 4 Fighter, EDR 3 with Auto-Quicken 3 and Hellball
21 TF / 5 Harper Mage / 4 Paladin, Auto-Quicken 3 and Auto-Still 2
25 TF / 5 Harper Mage, Auto-Quicken 3

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1362224493
This one is a 26 TF/ 4 Ranger to better fit most RP concepts without harsh mechanical requirements.

There are a few more others have mentioned that I have yet to compile into a comprehensive build path yet.

It's also possible to do 26 TF / 4 Fighter with Auto-Quicken 3, Auto-Still 2, and EDR3. The trade-off is no ESF: Evocation or Epic Spell Pen or ESF: Discipline.

Whenever going Auto-Still 2 instead of 3, use the greensteel armor and shield in place of Templar/Adamantine stuff. The passive reduction of ASF will still work with Greensteel armors.

TF 25 / SD 5 is very hard to build around due to the skill points required to meet the prerequisite of Shadowdancer as well as getting more ranks in Hide and Move Silently. But it's doable and also another way to approach TFs.

Last but not least, there is also a TF build concept introduced by Jack, but I don't think I've seen it played yet:
17 TF / 10 PM / 3 BG

Focused mostly on Maximized IGMS with Auto-Still and Divine Shield, this will allow good AC, good saves, and immunity to crits. But countered very hard by SR.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

Okay, DISCLAIMER- this build is not optimal. It's not optimal through virtue of being 30 TF, and it's probably not the most optimal way to build a TF. But the build does exactly what I want it to do, which is melt the things, and you wanted a glass cannon yourself. I've only got it to level 24, but that's more a factor of circumstances keeping the character from adventuring (read: politics) than his inability to complete a(ny) dungeon inside his level range -and some well outside it- except for those evil golems that are immune to magic. Stay away.

The first sacrifice you have to accept as a 30 TF is that you will get EITHER autoquicken III, OR hellball. In an ironic and sad twist of fate, it is utterly impossible to get all three Auto-Quickens AND Hellball unless you multiclass- specifically, you need 4 levels in any other class by level 26, so that TWO of your sorcerer bonus feats get pushed into levels 27-30, because 30 spellcraft is the gate for opening AQ.

The second sacrifice you have to accept is that unless Arelith modified the epic skill focus feats, you need 20 ranks in a skill to get epic skill focus. The maximum ranks you can get in a cross-class skill by level 30 is 16, so you also can't take epic skill focus, discipline. You have the benefit of KD being on cooldown on this server, but you will live and die based on your positioning in a fight, because you are the glassiest glass cannon that ever cannoned.

Sorc1- SF: Evo (Brew Potion, Free)
3- GSF: Evo
6- Empower Spell
9- Maximize Spell
12- Spell Pen
15- Silent Spell
18- Quicken Spell
21- ESF: EVO
23- Greater Ruin
24- Great Charisma
26- Great Charisma
27- AutoQuicken I
29- Hellball
30- AutoQuicken II


Starting stats:
10 STR (2 points)
8 DEX (0 points) (10 post-racial)
10 CON (4 points)
9 WIS (1 point)
16 INT (10 points)(18 post racial)
17 CHA (13 points) (+2 post-racial, +2 Gift for 21) + 7 from level up+ 2 GC = 30. With gear, 42, +16 modifier, +6 epic spell focus, +10 base, 32DC level 0 spells, 42 DC level 9 spells.
Cross-class Discipline, max spellcraft and concentration, heal and lore. You -can- cross class tumble, but your AC is pretty much always going to be irrelevant- if you take tumble, you're doing it to negate AoO's. You will have skill points leftover. I recommend bluff and spot. I took gift of languages and wealth in addition to the charisma gift, but I think you get one major and one minor as a drow?

"Why only one spell penetration feat?!"

30+2 = 32. You will ignore the SR of all hostile drow at level 30, as well as the SR of any monk that doesn't put epic feats towards their SR (you'll win on a 3 or better against a monk with 2 epic SR feats.) If you are fighting a 30 healer cleric (pretty much the only time you'll ever come up against a pure-classed cleric), you have to beat 42... once. With a forceful hand spell, which will prone them because their reflex sucks, allowing you to spam damage until it sticks. Alternatively, you can drink a haste potion, thunderclap them, which ignores SR entirely, and then cast damage, alternating until you do enough damage to kill them.

"Why silent spell?!"

Spells are your only damage. It would be really sad if someone hugged you with a silence spell buff on, as a result. The ability to switch to silent casting against a foe who thinks they've got one over on you may save your life. Also, RP flair.



Your shelgarn's persistent blade is an amazing utility- not just at low levels, either. It soaks just enough damage to survive long enough to gather your enemies into a tight spot for your burst damage spell of choice. It's also an incredibly effective leash once you learn wall of fire, and it's immune to the stun effect of your cloud of bewilderment, which allows you to (carefully) surround yourself with a stun cloud before leashing with the dagger- which you can also cast flame weapon on.

When you're financially comfortable enough to burn spell components on a regular basis, a great way to start almost every engagement you haven't gone through before is Great Thunderclap - note that if you're in a party this will take some organization lest you stun your whole party. But in addition to opening the fight with a wide-screen enemy disabler, it also fishes out all three saves (at DC40, no less) of each target in a single spell, letting you know which spells you can best follow-up with to melt everything before it can get to its feet and pounce on you.

You want either a pixie or a faerie dragon. I encourage the pixie (everyone encourages the pixie), but the faerie dragon is beefier and can also grant you improved invisibility, which is the primary survival reason for picking either; you can't use II from wands, but you can possess your familiar and have them cast it on you.

[Wuthering]

Pixies get improved invisibility too (and one more cast of it, even.) Pixies are ridiculous.

I think the OP should ask themselves why they need to be "pure" 30 levels of TF. You don't get anything for it and few levels of another class are going to do wonders for the character. I'm really not someone who's like "you have to build a certain way or your character is garbage" but this seems a little misguided or wanting thing to be different than the game actually is.

Whatever you choose I recommend a build that is flexible enough to let you dip a few levels at the end if you change your mind. Assuming you even get that far of course.

[AstralUniverse]

I wonder what happened to going Con based and taking fighter lvls in epics for EDR III. Not saying it's good but I just wonder what happened to that iteration.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I think the OP should ask themselves why they need to be "pure" 30 levels of TF. You don't get anything for it and few levels of another class are going to do wonders for the character. I'm really not someone who's like "you have to build a certain way or your character is garbage" but this seems a little misguided or wanting thing to be different than the game actually is.

Whatever you choose I recommend a build that is flexible enough to let you dip a few levels at the end if you change your mind. Assuming you even get that far of course.

Player mentioned that they'd been encouraged to dip but wanted to play a pure blaster mage. I suspect the motivation is something along the lines of knowing they are weaker overall, but being able to have the IC swag of doing more damage than anyone else.

The build I've presented can be altered by taking 4 levels of any other class (although since you're an NE drow, I would strongly recommend you choose Divine Champion for a blast-focused mage. BGs also have their perks, but you don't really want to spare the feats for power attack and divine shield, IMO.)

Drop Silent Spell for Still Spell, switch to Divine Champion levels 20-22, at level 21 you can take Great Cha and epic spell focus evo for your DC bonus feat. Switch back to sorcerer until level 24, where you take automatic still spell I, get your 4th DC level at 25 and take Automatic Still Spell II(Greensteel Armor/Shield). At level 27(23 Sorc), take AQ I and II, at level 30 take AQIII and Hellball. In this variant, you start with one less CHA, 1 more wis, and 2 more str, netting -2 CHA at the end, which still leaves you with DC41 9th level spells- but only an effective 28 caster levels against SR. You also lose Greater Ruin. Edit: I'm an idiot. You also have to drop spell penetration for a weapon focus feat- so you only have 26 caster levels against SR, which is risky, at best.

I wonder what happened to going Con based and taking fighter lvls in epics for EDR III. Not saying it's good but I just wonder what happened to that iteration.

Intuitively speaking, I'd imagine such an iteration would die out quickly because resisting 9 damage/attack is less likely to save you than getting AQIII and spamming maximized IGMS at the person hitting you, likely for many multiples of the 9 damage you're resisting per hit. If a weaponmaster hits you four times for 200 damage total (very conservatively), you still took 164 damage. You could instead of soaking that 36 damage hit them with a second set of 240 damage. There is no situation I can think of as a TF where EDR 3 can hope to compete with the HP swing of a second spell per round. It's not like a warlock, whose pinnacle of offensive casting strength is ice storm.

You also don't want to cripple the DCs of your spells, which IMO is a more important factor in your survival (damage output and CC) than a couple of hundred extra HP.