WM vs BG vs Fighter 30

[Void]

Fighter 30, Weapon Master (Fighter/WeaponMAster), Fighter/Blackguard.

Which one is going to have easier/harder time in PvE or on the server in general?

I'm not a fan of complex building, meaning I'll be looking for something straightforward, and each of those characters would have 8 charisma, str based, heavy armor, shield optional.

I played a blackguard before, it was a decent character on its own, which worked best as a flanker for its summon. Somehow I made into epics without ever getting caught with that summon. Didn't try to play fighter 30 or fighter/wm, but rememebr seeing a two-handed WM quickly destroyed by yuan ti.

So?

[Dedman1234]

A BG with 8 charisma is not a good idea. Both you and your summon can benefit greatly from Divine shield/might, wich happens to be useless without it. Also, losing out on the saves sucks. If you do want a BG, that is fun to play as, I'd go with PDK. Your summon has shitty AC, the PDK's heroic shield will allow you to guard it. You just pop imp. expertise and benefit from the extra AC, while maintaining the nice AB from your glass cannon summon. Couple that with other bonuses from PDK and you got yourself a nice, powerful melee, that can also greatly buff any party they are a part of. Lastly, you can play a non-human and actually be stronger that a humie BG. Just pick an Orog, you get the right feats for free, pick exotic proficiency to use that sweet Orog Bastard Sword and enjoy the extra AB, the ability to switch between using a shield for extra AC and two-handing the Bastard Sword for extra damage from both your massive STR score, as well as divine dmg from Divine Might. Of course, multiclassing so much before epics gives you slightly better saves (every new class before lvl 21 adds +2 to its "strong" base saves, wich happens to be fort and reflex in this case), wich coupled with dark blessing will give you a decent chance against those pesky casters once properly geared. Here is a nice build for you, just drop one of the non-essential feats (like prowess or something) of your choosing for the Exotic prof. It has the added benefit of early UMD, so you will have an easier time buffing.
The only major flaw this build used to have was getting weapon and armor proficiencies pretty damn late, wich made it harder to level up... but since PDKs now get profs as well, you only need to make it to lvl 4 and you are good to go. Again, easily done with an orog, since you can buy one of those fancy gel cubes to carry your backside to lvl4.

As for a pure fighter... The bonuses are nice, don't get me wrong, but your saves will suck even more than the WM's, while losing you the benefit of UMD, both other builds can make use of. Also, despite the extra damage from the bonuses, you will still be worse off than the WM, because your crits will be far rarer and weaker... You just cannot compare to 10-20/x3 crits.

The WM is just dps. It has reliable AC (unless you want to roll with the scythe, but that is quite dangerous...), exceptional offense and anything, that needs a will save to survive will be your nightmare, unless you build for saves.


Overall, my personal fav is the BG (not a suprise from the wall of text on it, is it?), simply because they get to /do/ something with their abilities, except playing a point&click adventure game the other two are known for.

[Void]

A BG with 8 charisma is not a good idea. Both you and your summon can benefit greatly from Divine shield/might, wich ...

I have no interest in PDK and other classes. Also human only (because I can't roll a tiefling).

I played blackguard into epics before, it had 8 cha. The problem is that was a kensai blackguard, so it had a bit more power than it is possible to have now. Yeah, you get a debuff from your "blessing", but it is not a big deal. Not a fan of divine might/shield abilities, because they require periodic rest and do not last long.

For WM a scythe would actually be interesting, however, I realize that I'll end up picking a reserve weapon in the epics anyway.

[a shrouded figure]

Fighter 23/WM7 is a very strong build- tons of feats, great damage, super simple... honestly as a human you’re better off with the cookie cutter WM but if you are open to half elf, wood elf, dwarf, etc that could net you a static +5 weapon for the loss of 3 tumble AC which could be arguably worth it.

[Dedman1234]

For WM a scythe would actually be interesting, however, I realize that I'll end up picking a reserve weapon in the epics anyway.

I just remembered, that a scythe WM has been slightly de-meemed with the addition of new weapon feats. Scythe is a polearm, so you will have all the polearm feats, wich will allow you to use a spear quite efficiently. The WM feat "weapon of choice" has not been remade though, so you will lose the WM benefits when using a spear and board.

As for the WMs in general, they usually fall prey to (competent) mages, due to their (usually) low saves. Taking saves feats allows them a fighting chance, but makes them weaker than the WMs who didn't take save feats. So you will still have a hard time facing wizards (but they won't just stun/weird/whatever you instantly) and probably lose to other WMs. But using a scythe can potentially mitigate this disadvantage, since you will get similar AB to other WMs and a few lucky crits might just end the fight. You gotta pray to rngesus, however.

If you really wanna go nuts tho... I think you just mentioned rolling up a tiefling, so I assume you have (or plan to get) a major award.
You can make a pretty funny scythe WM by picking one of the large reward races, that are actually capable of wielding a scythe alongside a shield, while also able to two-hand whenever they don't need the AC. It is up to you, though.

[Void]

I just remembered, that a scythe WM has been slightly de-meemed with the addition of new weapon feats. Scythe is a polearm, so you will have all the polearm feats, wich will allow you to use a spear quite efficiently. The WM feat "weapon of choice" has not been remade though, so you will lose the WM benefits when using a spear and board.

That is intentional, as far as I can tell. If you master a weapon, you master just one and not all of them.

If you really wanna go nuts tho... I think you just mentioned rolling up a tiefling, so I assume you have (or plan to get) a major award.
You can make a pretty funny scythe WM by picking one of the large reward races, that are actually capable of wielding a scythe alongside a shield, while also able to two-hand whenever they don't need the AC. It is up to you, though.

No, I don't have an award, and that's why I said I can't roll a tiefling. I wish I could though, but trying to fish for it is rather pointless. Large race with a scythe ... I'll consider that ("That's a scythe." "No, me says it is a sickle!").

[Tarkus the dog]

WM has good clear, good dps and good kill pressure, BG has good temporary AC/damage ( meaning it's more PvP centered ), BG with a summon has more potential in PvE though, and pure fighter is, I'd say, a mixture of the two. Not as much dps or kill pressure as a WM but can do late levels PvE content easier for it's higher AB and AC, and not as high AC and damage as a BG but stat wise it's better than BG once BG's divine stuff is down/run out of it.

WMs work better in a team, if you're playing with friend that's what I'd go for. If you're on your own, give pure fighter a try. It's a pretty fun build option these days that works fine both in pve and pvp.

[AstralUniverse]

With the OP's request in mind, I agree with just about everything Trakus has said here. I do want to add that after some comparison of the numbers, there's really no reason to take 30 fighter over a dip in Specialist. 26/4 (Edited typo here) or 27/3. Also, the fact you dont need to start with dex for WM feats means you can take more int and have many skill points.

[Archnon]

Not to hijack the theme of the thread, but could you combine them all.....

Say 7-Fighter, 7-WM, 16-Black Guard for just a super heavy hitter with a devilish buddy?