Options for a Cleric

[Righ]

I'm awful at efficient character creation. I've now remade my Cleric twice and I'm thinking of doing it again. This may be too vague of a request, but could someone help me with figuring out the most optimized build?

I'm looking to be a mostly melee combatant, utilizing buffs to help me surpass that of just a plain fighter, while throwing a couple heavy-hitting offensive spells in the mix. More importantly I'm looking for high survivability. My Cleric would rather talk than fight, so making him very difficult to hit with weapons and spells is my focus.

Additionally, can anyone give insight into whether mixing Monk and/or Ranger in with Cleric levels would be beneficial? Creating an Undead hunter is another cool idea in my head, but I am just not savvy enough with builds to know if it would be a total disaster or not.

I don't need best-of-the-best. Just looking for some advice on what I should be focusing on and what choices I should avoid like the plague. Was thinking of taking SF and GSF in Transmutation in order to get those buff bonuses but I don't know if there would be a better option.

[Dr. B]

Are you aware of this thread? It contains several build-guides including one for a battecleric. You can take Epic Spell Focus in Abjuration if you want to be more resistant to your spells.

The guide doesn't include cleric/monk or cleric/ranger because those class combinations don't synergize as well as you might think in Arelith's meta, although if you like the idea of shuriken as your main weapon there is this:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HNf ... DocxY/edit

[Biolab00]

Although this may not be a good way to say, basically a mord will likely dispel almost all attack buff that will make you a fighter which you can't possibly recast back in the heat of battle
Yep, some monster do throw mord in PVE...

[a shrouded figure]

Here's my battle cleric, he has too much int because I like having all my skills. Probably could argue for swapping the 30 Great Strength to Epic Skill Focus: Discipline and then swapping the 27 dragon knight for great strength? *shrugs* I feel like you may as well take dragon knight even without conjuration focii, they're just so good.

Cleric(27), Bard(3), Human

STR: 17 (24)
DEX: 8
CON: 12
WIS: 17 (19)
INT: 16
CHA: 8

Human: (Quick to Master)
01: Cleric(1): Spell Focus: Abjuration, Expertise, Domain Travel, Domain Trickery
02: Cleric(2)
03: Cleric(3): Weapon Focus
04: Cleric(4): STR+1, (STR=18)
05: Cleric(5)
06: Cleric(6): Arcane Defense: Abjuration
07: Cleric(7)
08: Cleric(8): STR+1, (STR=19)
09: Cleric(9): Blind Fight
10: Cleric(10)
11: Cleric(11)
12: Cleric(12): WIS+1, Extend Spell, (WIS=18)
13: Cleric(13)
14: Cleric(14)
15: Cleric(15): Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration
16: Cleric(16): WIS+1, (WIS=19)
17: Cleric(17)
18: Cleric(18): Knockdown
19: Cleric(19)
20: Cleric(20): STR+1, (STR=20)
21: Cleric(21): Epic Weapon Focus
22: Cleric(22)
23: Cleric(23): Armor Skin
24: Cleric(24): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=22)
25: Cleric(25)
26: Cleric(26): Epic Spell Focus: Abjuration
27: Cleric(27): Epic Spell: Dragon Knight
28: Bard(1): STR+1, (STR=23)
29: Bard(2)
30: Bard(3): Great Strength II, (STR=24)

Hitpoints: 264
Skillpoints: 204
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 18/22/10
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +7
BAB: 20
AB (max, naked): 30 (melee), 19 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 17/28
Spell Casting: Cleric(9)
Alignment Changes: 0

Concentration 33(34), Discipline 33(40), Heal 33(37), Lore 33(39), Spellcraft 33(36), Tumble 33(32), UMD 6(5)

[Righ]

Are you aware of this thread?

Yep! Unfortunately I found it after getting to about level 12, and there's no good way for me to go back and fix things. I also was toying with the idea of something less cookie-cutter so that I might be a bit less predictable in what little PvP combat I plan to do. Also for the sake of RP themeing and whatnot.

The guide doesn't include cleric/monk or cleric/ranger because those class combinations don't synergize as well as you might think in Arelith's meta...

Very curious as to the details on this. I was sort of iffy about throwing Ranger into the mix, but I'm surprised that Monk wouldn't be a huge boon. What prevents Monk from being a viable mix class with Cleric?

Although this may not be a good way to say, basically a mord will likely dispel almost all attack buff that will make you a fighter which you can't possibly recast back in the heat of battle

Hmm, yeah I've read that could be an issue. Is there a workaround for that? Should I focus instead on offensive spellcasting rather than buffs?

Here's my battle cleric...

Abjuration is an interesting choice. I hadn't really considered that as an option.

[Dr. B]

Very curious as to the details on this. I was sort of iffy about throwing Ranger into the mix, but I'm surprised that Monk wouldn't be a huge boon. What prevents Monk from being a viable mix class with Cleric?

In order to receive the monk's extra attacks and AC bonus from wisdom, you need to be unarmored. That's a big hit to your AC, unless your cleric is dex-based, but assuming you want level 9 spells the most you can reasonably fit on a human is 24 dex. Then there is the issue of offense: you cannot afford the two weapon fighting feats necessary for a quarterstaff or kamas, so you'll have to use your fists, which don't do that much damage, and furthermore you'll need to sink a feat into weapon finesse that you cannot really afford on a battlecleric. In sum, the build's requirements are spread too thin to be viable on a server with a level 30 limit, low magic items, and nerfs to the cleric's weapon damage spells.

From a mechanical perspective, I have no idea why anyone would multiclass cleric with ranger. The only reason that build I posted does it is so you can get free ranged weapon feats from the ranger's archer path.

Abjuration is an interesting choice. I hadn't really considered that as an option.

You're welcome! (I basically gave Ozzy this build the other day.) The point of Abjuration and Arcane Defense: Abjuration is to resist dispels. That will probably be very helpful in "what little PvP combat you plan to do".

[Righ]

Then there is the issue of offense: you cannot afford the two weapon fighting feats necessary for a quarterstaff or kamas

In my hole-filled brain I reasoned that could be fixed with some levels of Ranger, who unless I'm mistaken still gets at least one of the dual-wielding feats basically for free. Which answers:

From a mechanical perspective, I have no idea why anyone would multiclass cleric with ranger.

I also figured Ranger spells were Wis-based, which would mean I'd need to spread my attributes less. My less mechanics-oriented reason was just for RP purposes. Wanted a sort of hunter of the Undead, and I plan to do more traveling at higher levels so it stood to reason that maybe a Ranger would be the class that would know the surrounding lands the best. It was definitely a secondary to Monk though, which is sounding more like a handicap at this point.

I'll look more into these builds that have Bard as a secondary then. Appreciate all the help, folks!

[Righ]

An additional question regarding Abjuration spell focus:

The point of Abjuration and Arcane Defense: Abjuration is to resist dispels. That will probably be very helpful in "what little PvP combat you plan to do".

I really like this idea, but I also really like the Transmutation spell focus as well. Would it be viable to sacrifice a couple other feats in order to take both (bringing Transmutation up to GSF at least)?

[a shrouded figure]

I’d say yes and no, clerics are a bit feat starved already- one option would be to drop Knockdown and epic spell focus for Spell Focus and GSF transmutation... or you could drop 3 AC and take 3 more cleric levels. This would increase tour spell resistance even more while giving you an additional bonus feat.

[Dr. B]

An additional question regarding Abjuration spell focus:

The point of Abjuration and Arcane Defense: Abjuration is to resist dispels. That will probably be very helpful in "what little PvP combat you plan to do".

I really like this idea, but I also really like the Transmutation spell focus as well. Would it be viable to sacrifice a couple other feats in order to take both (bringing Transmutation up to GSF at least)?

It depends on what you sacrifice and on the specifics of the build. A battlecleric typically has room for one spell focus path, and you can certainly pick up transmutation in lieu of abjuration. If your cleric has the War Domain, then transmuation focus will be extremely useful in a party, as it augments the Aura of Vitality spell that War Domain grants at level 7. Otherwise it will not be terribly useful, but certainly not useless.

In my hole-filled brain I reasoned that could be fixed with some levels of Ranger, who unless I'm mistaken still gets at least one of the dual-wielding feats basically for free.

You need to be wearing light armor for the ranger's Dual Wield feat to work. Additionally, you will not be able to fit Improved Two Weapon fighting. The extra attack is definitely not worth it. However, you could play a half-orc cleric. They get Ambidexterity and Two Weapon Fighting for free, and it might be possible to squeeze in Improved Two-Weapon fighting. However, I don't recommend this on a battlecleric. The extra damage output isn't enough to offset the loss to defense.