Ogre COT possible?

[JubJub]

Ogres are horrible stat wise, like really horrbile, but if anyone likes a challenge is there a way to make one a decent COT? I have been messing about on the PGCC with trying to make a fighter/COT one. But I figure I would post it here if anyone feels like a challenge to come up with a build.

[Jagel]

Gift of magi if you want to use divine wrath

Barb/cot/X

X = rogue, bard, fighter depending..

[the grim yeeter]

6fighter/7wm/17cot; forget about charisma. The only thing affected is the divine wrath duration. With 4 CHA mod, that's still 3 + 8 rounds, assuming a negative CHA mod does not affect the duration of Arelith's divine wrath (note: I believe it does affect that of the vanilla version. As in, a CHA mod of 0 means you can't use the vanilla ability). That's a minute and six seconds. However, if a negative CHA mod is taken into account, it would be 3 + 8 - 3 rounds (a mere 48 seconds), but: take illithid boon for a boost to 12 CHA and it's 3 + 8 + 1, so a minute and eighteen seconds. Can even be boosted further with eagle's splendor, to a total of a minute-and-a-half. That should be sufficient for a weapon master, who's all about big damage dealt fast in the first place. Especially an ogre weapon master (of the scythe). I have the build broken down completely (for a human), so contact me if you want to see it.

Having said this, it is generally advised not to let your build rely on the availability of boons, as - knowing Arelith - mechanics get removed out of the blue fairly regularly. And if the illithid boon does get removed while playing this build, and a negative CHA mod does lower the divine wrath duration, then you should not play a cot as an ogre.

Be wary of this build's severe lack of skill points. An ogre gets 13 INT, so if I am not mistaken, this build gets only 99 skill points, of which 4 are lost to intimidate. That's not even three skills: 33 discipline, 4 intimidate, 32 lore, 15 tumble (cc'd). No heal, no spellcraft and no detection. So you'd have to stack up on a boatload of heal potions. I believe this build can handle the lack of spellcraft, owing to the +8 to saves received from sacred defense. You could decide to forsake tumble alltogether for one of the other three skills, but the whole point of an ogre melee build, in my opinion, is that they can use a large weapon together with a shield, for the option of AC when needed (even though an ogre weapon master's AC isn't something to write home about, really). Either way: know what you're getting yourself into, if you do decide to go for this.

All in all, you may want to ask yourself: why do I want to play my ogre as a cot per se?

[JubJub]

They can use a large weapon with a shield, it has never let me equip say a tower shield and great axe. Always unequipped my weapon when I tried on my last ogre. I am not set on COT, but I was trying to find what a ogre might be good at with all it's horrible stats and thought a COT with it's saves and feats might make up for the ogres pain to build.

[the grim yeeter]

They can use a large weapon with a shield, it has never let me equip say a tower shield and great axe. Always unequipped my weapon when I tried on my last ogre.

This shouldn't happen. I've played an ogre with a scythe and a tower shield, and there've been other ogres that also used a greataxe and a tower shield.

I am not set on COT, but I was trying to find what a ogre might be good at will all it's horrible stats and thought a COT with it's saves and feats might make up for the ogres pain to build.

It's not weird to think this. CoT is, after all, a powerful class. Especially on Arelith.

Before the big umd/lore update, 20/7/3 was great on an ogre. It still works on an ogre, but it's just that you don't need rogue for the UMD anymore, which is why things like barb/wm, fighter/divine/cot and (less so) fighter/wm/cot have become the go-to melee builds instead of the 20/7/3. The problem is that barb/wm on an ogre is very suboptimal (I tested it), and a divine build is a definite no-go on an ogre (and now more than ever, divine builds are the strongest). Ogres really just aren't in a good spot at the moment.

[Mattamue]

STR ranger could make up for some of the skill point issues. Here's a few builds I'm aware of:

16 Barb 10 Ranger 4 Ftr -- you'll still be able to hit 4 dex bonus with ranger studded leather. Improved dual wield AB and extra attack doesn't come until late epics, but you might be able to tweak that around. Kenji posted this one in sheets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =368060840

Quarterstaff Ranger Monk builds (Human, must be Lawful) -- I think you can still 1h wield a quarterstaff w/ an Ogre and even get the +2 AB... it'll just be a really long club? You'll have to move things around take 1st level in non-ranger so WIS doesn't kill you. Same from Kenji:
21 Ranger / 5 Monk / 4 Fighter - Highest DPS output
21 Ranger / 6 Monk / 3 Specialist - Versatile build, free knockdown feats
27 Ranger / 3 Monk - Highest CL with +5 Blade Thirst to bypass DR spells, lots of favored/studied enemies. Recommended for beginners
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

[the grim yeeter]

[...] I think you can still 1h wield a quarterstaff w/ an Ogre and even get the +2 AB... it'll just be a really long club?

This isn't possible. At least it wasn't when I tested it in the PGCC 5 minutes ago.

[...] assuming a negative CHA mod does not affect the duration of Arelith's divine wrath [...]

I tested this, and negative CHA mod does lower the divine wrath duration, so that makes the fighter/wm/cot rely on illithid boon a bit more, sadly.