Rogue skills...choices, choices, choices

[Kalos]

For my rogue character I was thinking of maxing my Open Lock, Disable Trap, and Search at 20. And my UMD at 15. And Max Lore, Move Silent, Hide, and Spot.

Is that bad? Is 20 too low for opening Epic chests (If I ever get there). I don't plan on trying to rob quarters or anything. Just want to be able to open all chests and doors I encounter when adventuring.

Thank you.

[Maladus]

This is also relevant to my interests.

[legionetrangere]

I have an on going rogue toon. He's currently rogue 11 / fighter 4
I already encountered 65 DC doors and 40-45 chests and traps. And i'm not even into the epic dungeons as it is.
EDIT: I started as 18 INT dwarf, and i've got a beef income of skill points every lvl. So far, so good

[Rigela]

For the runic chests, you can get them with minimal investment and then just enchanting a set of gear to put on when you need. So 20 points, adding dex and possible enchanted items will more than cover you.

Obviously not enough for the "short cut" doors, or doors to hidden areas etc though.

[AstralUniverse]

That can always change but currently 1 lock/disarm is enough for runic chests if you have all or most of your gear slots used for lock/disarm gear. However, while runic chests are the ultimate jackpot, there are many other doors and shortcuts to places with much much higher DCs so investing hard into Open locks is not redundant entirely even if you dont aim to be a dedicated quarter-breaker. There are pretty cool things to find out there.

[dallion43]

You want to hit 60 on traps and ~55-65 on locks to relatively reliably open runic chests and doors from what I seen.

But, before all that, I didn't see heal and disc on the skill list. Hopefully it means maxing them comes without question ? :p
At least the disc.

You can reliably enchant 11 items with +2 OL/DT/SR, 1 use a day armor with +5OL/+10DT, Lock-picks you can buy for ~+4-8, I believe there is +10 but it is expensive for one time use.

60-22-10-your_MODDED_!!!!INT!!!!!_mod-20roll=DT req.skill.
OL is relatively less important, but try to hit 60/65-22-your_MODDED_dex_mod-5-4-20roll=OL req.skill.

UMD, take into consideration your cha mod. From what I know it is taken into calc before you get to fire the item. (fully modified roll). I doubt you want to drink a cha pot before use.
There is also peski bards that sing about your demise for anywhere until ~ -14 to all skills. But it is less important.
So, total(15)=15+chamod(17SP-2ChaMod). ( I usually strive for 20umd final).

Search is less about finding traps and more about getting more loot per loot source. Depends on how many skill points you have left.

All above is imho of course.

p.c
1. I have less experience with rouges then I would like to have to give advise. Still, above is better then nothing.
2. your_MODDED_XXX_mod - means whatever your final int/dex +12 from gear/pots.
Ex: Final 16int + 12int(modded, gear+pot) = 28 -> +9 to disable trap/search.
I recommend to enchant 11 items of gear with +1int, +1dex, +2OL, +2DT, +2SR, +2LORE. (lore is less important).
There is gear in game with better then +2 search, when you find it, then skip the +2 SR on relevant enchanted item.
3. There is some gear that give +1extra DT etc. But. Inventory space is limited and it is better to put one more SP and save inventory space when it doesn't come to 11 items + search gear.
4. If you didn't take disc at all on this PC, redo the PC with relevant int to take it.
Taking lvl 1 as rouge helps with skills.

Things I wrote above exist on Arelith Wiki. So hopefully no FIG was breached and no harm was done.

Edit: For the disc comment after this, I apologize I am not ready for round 2 so soon. But, yes ESF.disc feat is strongly advised.

[Biolab00]

For the DIscipline skill, it's been strongly debated over before.
If you are not investing Epic Discipline feat into your build, it's generally not worthwhile to take this skill.
This is because to reliably resist combat action such as KD and Disarm, your average discipline need to border around 60 to make it worthwhile.
Generally, even if you don't put in any discipline, the only way that you can get KD is when enemy roll a natural 20 but then again, since the 18sec immunity has been applied, this lucky KD won't kill you in PVE.
And yes, you need 60discipline (bare minimum) to also reliably resist KD in PVE. ( This is under the assumption that i take that your AC is high enough and generally you can only get KD by such Epic monster that roll a natural 20. )

Edit : I have to also admit that if there's no 18sec immunity applied, Discipline skill is a mandatory. This is also because there's always bad luck moment whereby you get to be hit by a natural 20s almost every round and not just once, if you are mobbed by more than 4 monsters. Though, the 18sec immunity only apply to Arelith server, not to other server. It's unique to us, in a good way

[Might-N-Magic]

For my rogue character I was thinking of maxing my Open Lock, Disable Trap, and Search at 20. And my UMD at 15. And Max Lore, Move Silent, Hide, and Spot.

Open Lock and Disable Trap you leave at 1. Runic chests and typical adventuring obstacles usually top out at DC 40. Yes, there are other things out there with higher DCs, but they're not worth opening, really.

Search is max. It helps you find treasure.

The rest is ok, though if you're wanting to find other sneakers sneaking, go listen and not spot. Move Silent is easier to break than Hide.

[Wuthering]

You can leave Open Locks & Disable Traps at 1 and access runic chests by swapping gear.. But I think it is a huge quality of life improvement to throw some points at them if you have them especially if you really enjoy finding secret areas and can't stand not being able to open that secret door or trapped chest.

Keep in mind Open Locks is dex based and you can make/use Thieves Tools so you can get a pretty high score easily with few points invested, but disable traps is intelligence based so you get much less ability modifier and you can't use tools for an easy boost.

Just don't dump all you got asap- you should have a pretty good idea later on how many skill points you need and can bank them until you're ready to decide.

[Ork]

DC 65 door calculation to keep in mind:

20 (base) + 16 DEX + 1 Skill Rank + 12 Thieves Tools puts you at 49. +16 from gear and you've made it.

[Kalos]

So your saying to 10 skill points I put in already is enough....seems so wrong. So why does anyone play rogue when any Dex char can be acceptable rogue?

[Baron Saturday]

So your saying to 10 skill points I put in already is enough....seems so wrong. So why does anyone play rogue when any Dex char can be acceptable rogue?

Only true if you think their ability to open locks/disable traps is what defines a rogue. While it is, admittedly, one of their more iconic roles, sneak attacks, rogue grenades, lots of skill points (not many classes can max out 10-12 skills), and blinding speed cooldown are all pretty nice features. Also, ONLY rogues can disarm traps with a DC of over 35 - though technically other classes can recover traps instead, at a +10 DC.

[Might-N-Magic]

Rogues could probably use a +1/class level to their Search scores. It's a bit silly that wizards make the best loot-finders due to being skill-dumping INT characters.

[Ork]

Rogues could probably use a +1/class level to their Search scores. It's a bit silly that wizards make the best loot-finders due to being skill-dumping INT characters.

YES!

[AstralUniverse]

So your saying to 10 skill points I put in already is enough....seems so wrong. So why does anyone play rogue when any Dex char can be acceptable rogue?

-Rogues are fun skill class.
-Granades are strong in pvp.
-Bonus movement in stealth
-Dex ac compensation with leather armor puts your ac at Swashbuckler and monk tier.
-Heavy Rogue build with powerful sneak attack can end people in 1 round.

Sure, there are plenty of counters to rogues, like almost any other class, but they do their thing and have a solid place in their niche these days.

[Might-N-Magic]

-Granades are strong in pvp.

Eh, the saves are a bit low if you add any other class to your build and almost all of their effects are easily prevented by common buffs...

[AstralUniverse]

-Granades are strong in pvp.

Eh, the saves are a bit low if you add any other class to your build and almost all of their effects are easily prevented by common buffs...

Well, I kinda trust your word more than my own on that one. They consider spellcraft, that's probably the problem?

[Kalos]

For the 'Rogue skills' do Rogue and Shadowdancer levels count or just Rogue levels?

Thanks.

[Itikar]

So your saying to 10 skill points I put in already is enough....seems so wrong. So why does anyone play rogue when any Dex char can be acceptable rogue?

I think you are overstimating how widespread the practice of gearing for disable traps or open lock is. In the last few months I played Arelith I saw only one character equipped in that fashion, most teams either smashed the chests or doors, or were actually happy to take advantage of my rogue's lockpicking and detrapping skills.

Even a wizard with a pixie familiar had to grudingly ask my rogue to open a door the pixie could not manage, and trust me pixies are a much worse competitor with rogues for these skills than any geared character.

In general, in my experience, the most frustrating things were people either walking through traps careless of their effects, or wands/scrolls of knock. But even then those players still willingly face a cost, in the form of the spell slot, scroll/wand or in suffering the effects of the trap.

As for lockpicks, they are a cost as well. So unless it is one of those epic chests with very precious crafting materials or anyway very cool loot, by using a high bonus lockpick on a relatively lowly chest you really risk not covering the cost with what is inside. For doors it is even worse, since they have no loot.

For the 'Rogue skills' do Rogue and Shadowdancer levels count or just Rogue levels?

Thanks.

If you mean the attack bonus with rogue proficiency weapons, the lightly armored feature and the blinding speed cooldown, shadowdancer and assassin levels stack with rogue ones.

They do not stack for everything however, for instance grenades are unlocked only with rogue levels. The wiki does cover it well on the respective pages.