Help on lore master builds

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Trying to help a friend out. Best i got so far is a tanky build that can have summons' with vwand scroll fun and tank for self and, or allies. Like 20 tribal barb and 10 loremaster with leadership, lots of con and and improved expertise and EDR

Open to partial lore master builds too

[Drowboy]

I'm personally fond of swash/WM with the fewest amount of Loremaster you're comfortable with, and as much as possible taken in epics.

I say fond, I more mean grudgingly trying to make an npc class work on an adventurer

[AstralUniverse]

I'm personally fond of swash/WM with the fewest amount of Loremaster you're comfortable with, and as much as possible taken in epics.

This sounds really nice. Just on first glance, I can see it as a 4 lvl loremaster, with +1 ac/ab secrets and barkskin wands become +5 too. Quite fitting for a swash wm.

[Gouge Away]

I wouldn't call it an "NPC" class but it's definitely heavier on RP tools than combat. The most interesting use of loremaster is probably going to be giving a ranger/paladin/bard etc hybrid caster access to an epic spell focus ability like scry or yoink. That's every other level so you practically you're only going to need a three or four level dip. That, or to play a language master going deeper loremaster at the expense of combat or casting usefulness.

Or as mentioned you can take it instead of bard to get UMD, spellcraft and a free language on a traditional melee build.

I don't think scroll and wand mastery is all that. Mostly it's just going to save you time and money acquiring wands and scrolls. Bumping up your CL a little isn't going to generally make wands and scrolls more useful in combat though a little bonus here and there would be felt (like barkskin above)

[ZombieDuck]

What kind of build do they want? Tanky? DPS? Caster?

With 4 Loremaster levels you can take 2 Secret Knowledge feats giving you 2 of the following for example; +1 AB/+1 Dodge AC/-Yoink/-Teleport Create.(Need Greater Spell Focus Conjuration/Transmutation for the epic spell commands)

I haven't figured out a build with heavy Loremaster investment yet but a dip of 4 levels can be useful becouse of the Secret Knowledge feats and skills from the class like UMD/Spellcraft.

[Skibbles]

I would really like to see some options for this, as I've really wanted to rebuild a character as a loremaster, but...

Sadly the distinct lack of loremaster on the recommend build guides on the wiki probably spells it out enough: loremaster is nonviable. That is to say the more loremaster levels you have, the less viable the character becomes. Therefore I conclude that loremaster is only workable if you also maintain low expectations, and/or barely thematic class combinations.

Even so I like the idea and I've been wracking my brain for quite a while trying to think of any way to fit it in without absolutely shattering the character into a noodly combatant passed over in group PvE as a costly liability (great we need to use another raise scroll *eyeroll*), or a dismissed pushover in PvP.

Therefore I base the following ideas on the idea that you'll be broken and should just face being broken head on like a badge of honor:

Spellcasters: I'd go with using the 26/4 paradigm. No discipline for some, and if I'm reading the wiki right, you don't even get +2 spell DCs for taking the secret lores. In PvE however you're still likely just a Mass Haste bot, sing bot, or cleric buff bot, so fortunately you won't be changing much here. Otherwise you'll be a bad caster, a bad character, and a bad loremaster too. Still a 'loremaster' though, but if I wanted to gimp with Loremaster I'd want all 10 or bust.

Mundane: Swashbuckler seems like a great theme to mix, and maybe my favorite one, with a S 20/LM 10 that could settle up that Indiana Jones trope very well. Again you'll be sweepingly worse in every conceivable manner from a non LM, but at least still useful in PvE if you have someone to protect you. I'd probably even build it with some horrific INT/DEX meld to get tons of skillpoints to help in PvE and even throw in a good deal of extra damage. AB/AC will suffer of course, but suffering is what we're accepting here.

Healer 20/LM 10 sounds fun too, and comes with the predefined notion you're mostly a support class anyway. Again you'll be a terrible cleric, gimped in one of the healer's greatest strengths in temp hp regen, but still have decent heal spells and access to some of the cleric's non-dispellable buffs like magic vestment. At least with arcane defense abjuration you can squeeze out 22 CL instead of 20.

Otherwise I'm firmly in the camp that Loremaster, as it is, is probably Arelith's greatest swing-and-a-miss and it makes me the saddest panda because I want it to work so bad and it just doesn't.

[Mattamue]

I've seen a 20 bard 10 lm in action. Got 20% of a language in like an hour. Has all the gsf benefits and some epic ones. Bard song. I think it's discounted because it's a support build, but it's really good at support.

[AstralUniverse]

I've seen a 20 bard 10 lm in action. Got 20% of a language in like an hour. Has all the gsf benefits and some epic ones. Bard song. I think it's discounted because it's a support build, but it's really good at support.

Its great for RP but it's not that amazing of a support, as the wards have only 20 CL vs dispells. As the front line of your party hypothetically, I dont even want your wards at that point - just keep the music going, thanks I'll ward myself. But the languages progress is mad. can get 30-40% in a couple of hours session but that also depends on how good the teacher is.

[Mattamue]

If the 20/10 loremaster doesn't cast from their spellbook their wards are CL 30.

They don't even need a spellbook when they can just have a page of scrolls and wands.

A barkskin wand from a level 10 loremaster is a level 15 +5 natural armor at CL 30.

[AstralUniverse]

If the 20/10 loremaster doesn't cast from their spellbook their wards are CL 30.

They don't even need a spellbook when they can just have a page of scrolls and wands.

A barkskin wand from a level 10 loremaster is a level 15 +5 natural armor at CL 30.

I should have been more clear, I only meant their spellbook above.

[ZombieDuck]

26 Ranger/4 LoreMaster can also make use of Ranger bonus feats(Favoured Enemy feats) to take Greater Spell Focus to help it reach the requirements for -Yoink/-Teleport Create Loremaster feats and with Areliths 'Studied enemies' you can still have plenty of races that you get +AB/DMG/Skills with Bane of Enemies/Favoured Enemies.

You also get UMD/Spellcraft(For +7 saving throws vs. Spells at 35) from Loremaster(Sadly no Tumble) to give access to Moonblade, wands and some other stuff.

Ranger/LM is still suboptimal to stronger Ranger builds, but -Yoink/-Teleport Create/Rangers Move Speed increase in Wilderness make the build very comfy to move around the server with and you'll spend your leveling days(6-onwards) with animal companion to help you level.

At epic you'll have +5 Enchant/Vamp Reg to melee weapons from your Blade Thirst(While still having decent AB/Dmg with longbow), have high AB, decent AC and lvl 26 animal companion + anything you can dominate with Animal Empathy to help you along.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Loremaster is neat.

It never seems fruitful to take more than 4 levels.

The 16 Int modifier seems annoying, most times. It pigeon-holes a lot of builds. I'd rather the prereqs be like:

14 INT
12 ranks in Lore
8 ranks in Search

Also, it is a useful PrC because it lets you go after UMD without taking rogue or bard, which sometimes can create redundancies in certain builds. It also lets you invest in Spellcraft freely. The wand/scroll bonuses seem kinda whatever, but grabbing a bonus language plus some secrets is neat.

Overall, it's neat. But it's niche.

And the build I always think of is a Swashbuckler/Loremaster or a Fighter/Loremaster build, yeah. I wish there was a secret that gave you +1 Caster Level, so you might actually consider the class on a wizard.

[Archnon]

21 ranger 3 monk 6 loremaster. You can tie in the monk and loremaster levels as sort of an expert scholar rp thing. You are a bit starved for either epic feats or fe's or both but you can take abjuration and divination feats if your careful and rp as a tracker trapper. Super niche and not as powerful as a typical ranger but fun and you get decent AC. May even go archer and play as a hunter. It is on my list when I have time.

[CorsicanDoge]

Rejoice! I got a str build for your guy!



So as a personal challenge to myself this was the best possible 10 loremaster build I could think up with and I stuck with loremaster 10 because why bother otherwise? LITERALLY PICK ANYTHING ELSE IF YOU AREN'T IN LOVE WITH THE CONCEPT OF LOREMASTER.

Some annoying factors -

1. The cool RP toys are locked behind spell focus. Why? What's wrong with a fighter teleporting? If you want cool RP toys you just ruin yourself because two feats (spell focus, GSF) is expensive if it isn't part of a wizard build. But if you're a wizard you could just be 27 wizard.

2.The fact that I had to go fighter/blackguard/loremaster to get something that isn't just an obvious egg-on-face "im doing this for the RP" indicates that this class (loremaster) isn't meant for spellcasters.

3.This build is very expensive. You get easy access to 80 lore but you're going to be churning out lore rings to have it be part of your regular kit. On top of that, you'll be burning through scrolls/wands to fill in all your gaps... Which it can, it's effectively lvl 30 spells thanks to scroll/wand mastery but this is a build for patricians only.

4. You're pigeon-holed into Human.

5. You're pigeon-holed into strength.

6. You go 2 hand and get roughly 47 AB or you go 1H/Shield and take the AC feats instead. You can't really fit both in.

7. I don't think Secret of Artifice works

8. Tri-stating str, con, cha.

9. You get bullied for knowing a secret language.

Some cool factors -

1. Easy access to lore without ruining yourself.

2. Dweomercrafting. Good if you want to play a Gondite

3. Decent saves because it's a div build.

4. It'll treat you right in PvE. If you want to tank, your 1H/shield variant will be satisfactory and if you want to 2H nobody is going to scoff at your 100 critties with a falchion.

5. Bluff access thanks to blackguard

6. The peach in the skill section is heal. So while you're strapped for skills, you do get everything you need.

7. You can switch bluff for search for more loot.

8. You know a lot of languages instantly for no trouble.

9. You teach people really, really fast.

10. You know a secret language.

11. No neutral options but you can switch out BG with paladin.

It's not S-tier by any stretch, but you'll still have some RP goodies from 10 loremaster while not being entirely laughed at for being a pool-noodle. In fact, you might actually egg some people as you burn through your bank account spamming greater spell mantle scrolls and falchioning people to death. You definitely need those buffs.

In fact, you'll really like those greater spell mantles when they nerf heal potions.

[Gouge Away]

Paladin would get you access to spell focuses. I suspect there's a half decent 16+paladin/10 loremaster/something build out there. 10 ranger (archer)/10 AA/10 loremaster could be decent support too.

But really I'd look at it like a great dip class for little investment and 10 levels is for an RP challenge. There doesn't have to be a kickbutt 10 level loremaster build.

[CorsicanDoge]

Paladin would get you access to spell focuses. I suspect there's a half decent 16+paladin/10 loremaster/something build out there. 10 ranger (archer)/10 AA/10 loremaster could be decent support too.

But really I'd look at it like a great dip class for little investment and 10 levels is for an RP challenge. There doesn't have to be a kickbutt 10 level loremaster build.

Yeah. But if you do go this route I think you need 11 wisdom for the spell focus to even crop up and about 5 or so paladin levels. Then the spell focuses eat into your feats. The archer's a pretty cute idea, too, and it gets access to spell focuses.

[AstralUniverse]

Really anything that already has tumble and discipline (or even just discipline if there's sufficient ac) and can spare a class for it, can get it. Be it swashbuckler, bard or even monk. 20monk/10 loremaster is almost 30 monk, minus the 28th monk perks and 2 bonus feats, and then it gets the whole Loremaster package deal to play with and can still take epic dodge. The ultimate none-wizard librarian.

[Archnon]

Really anything that already has tumble and discipline (or even just discipline if there's sufficient ac) and can spare a class for it, can get it. Be it swashbuckler, bard or even monk. 20monk/10 loremaster is almost 30 monk, minus the 28th monk perks and 2 bonus feats, and then it gets the whole Loremaster package deal to play with and can still take epic dodge. The ultimate none-wizard librarian.

The problem is that without spell focuses, many of the loremaster secrets just aren't that appealing to be honest. For example, the monk build. You could take the AB and AC increases. After that, what do you spend your remaining 3 secrets on?


With the strength build would it be possible to switch it up to do heavy BG. I was thinking 5 fighter, 16 BG, 9 loremaster. You lose out on that final loremaster cap, but you get the fiendish summons which you can crazy buff with 82 lore.

[AstralUniverse]

The problem is that without spell focuses, many of the loremaster secrets just aren't that appealing to be honest. For example, the monk build. You could take the AB and AC increases. After that, what do you spend your remaining 3 secrets on?

4 in total. So Ac, AB, Artisan and Gathering. But yeah, I see your point. It is limited. And you cant (yet) take spell focuses on BG either.