Ranger / Loremaster
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Ranger / Loremaster
First I was wondering if Ranger (23) is worth going for since it gets the Animal Empathy Henchmen? If not, then I'll stop at 21 for Bane of Enemies.
I was thinking about doing a Dexterity based Ranger who utilizes both Sword / Shield and a decent bowmen. So I'll be aiming for Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Shortsword), and Spell Focus / Greater Spell Focus Abjuration.
I know lack of Tumble will sting, but if I take 16 skill points in Tumble I should be /OK/?
I've got a lot of wiggle room and am looking for suggestions!
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
I don't know what your build is but Loremaster usually works best as a 3 or 4 level dip unless you're making a dedicated language tutor character or something. You may still look at adding a few rogue levels too?
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
(You also only need 15 not 16, the extra point doesn't get you anything.)
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
If you dont plan to use dual wielding and just use sword-n-board or bow, then I'd take archer path and get the archer base feats for free and some extra damage with bow. It basically would cost you nothing.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
Re: Ranger / Loremaster
I've always believed ranger DCs are too hopelessly low to bother with spell focus. What is this for? If it's for the ward ability you get with all the SF Abjuration feats, how good/useful is that?
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
There is plenty of stuff to know about feat changes here....http://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Feat_changesSpell Focus: Abjuration
Epic Spell Focus: The -ward and -ward teleport Commands become available. The character may use one or the other of these, once per rest. -ward creates a large visible symbol on the floor, which lasts for a long time and inflicts brief paralysis on enemies who fail a Will Save upon passing over it. -ward teleport, while it lasts, prevents any PC from teleporting out of the area in question through any means, and prevents them from being -yoinked elsewhere whilst the remain in the area. It also prevents travel to any portals within the area.
Affected Spell List:
Holy Sword: If the caster has Abjuration Foci, the Dispel check improves by +1 per focus feat.
Endure Elements, Resist Elements, Protection from Elements, Energy Buffer: Epic Spell Focus Abjuration increases Damage absorbed by 1.5 times.
Lesser Dispel, Dispel, Greater Dispel, Mordenkainen's Disjunction :
Each Spell Focus in Abjuration grants a cumulative +1 to Dispelling Rolls (with Epic spell focus adding an additional +1), to a total of +4 with Epic Spell Focus: Abjuration. These are applied after the Level Cap imposed by individual spells (so an Epic Abjurer's Greater Dispelling caps at +26, not +22).
Shield:
Spell Focus Abjuration: The Shield spell protection extends to include Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm as well as Magic Missile.
Greater Spell Focus: This Shield spell protection extends to include Isaac's Greater Missile Storm.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Mildly useful, but definitely not worth taking on a ranger and surely not worth it for the -ward ability.Goromir wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:14 pmSorry if I'm derailing the thread with a tangent, but my curiosity was piqued with the spell focus abjuration thing.
I've always believed ranger DCs are too hopelessly low to bother with spell focus. What is this for? If it's for the ward ability you get with all the SF Abjuration feats, how good/useful is that?
-ward teleport is just to add a niche role for abjurers. It's great to secure a location with a few entrances which leads to the only escapes being 1. PvP and win, 2. Portal lens, or 3. -yoink. Needs to be used strategically given it's on a timer.
-ward is just trash on paper especially since the DC is allegedly too low to be useful in high end PVP, though I have never seen it been used.
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Hey uh... dont say that. gsf abjuration on a ranger is actually really good because it means you can drink a 28 gp potion and be immune to one of the mage's primary damage spell. If they breach you, well, you can just drink another one and they put themselves at disadvantage. It is really good and rangers are also among the classes which sacrifice the least to pick it because they can select greater spell focus on a bonus favored enemy feat if they want. I'm not saying it's a must-take but saying it's definitely not worth taking on a ranger is incorrect and misleading. Just had to point that out.Good Character wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:07 amMildly useful, but definitely not worth taking on a ranger and surely not worth it for the -ward ability.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Taking ESF: Abjuration on a ranger is definitely not worth it, which is what I was talking about.AstralUniverse wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:13 amHey uh... dont say that. gsf abjuration on a ranger is actually really good because it means you can drink a 28 gp potion and be immune to one of the mage's primary damage spell. If they breach you, well, you can just drink another one and they put themselves at disadvantage. It is really good and rangers are also among the classes which sacrifice the least to pick it because they can select greater spell focus on a bonus favored enemy feat if they want. I'm not saying it's a must-take but saying it's definitely not worth taking on a ranger is incorrect and misleading. Just had to point that out.Good Character wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:07 amMildly useful, but definitely not worth taking on a ranger and surely not worth it for the -ward ability.
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
I was assuming you refer to sf and gsf abjuration because that's the question you were answering, but I should have realized you are talking about -ward, from how you wrote it. Yeah, on one hand investing a feat for -ward/-ward teleport seems like a waste, but isnt this whole class about the RP cookies and pretending to be a wizard anyway? If you're a ranger and you've picked gsf abjuration (because it's a really valid option) then there's no reason not to take the secret for RP's sake, since you're picking this class for RP's sake only.Good Character wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:18 pmTaking ESF: Abjuration on a ranger is definitely not worth it, which is what I was talking about.AstralUniverse wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:13 amHey uh... dont say that. gsf abjuration on a ranger is actually really good because it means you can drink a 28 gp potion and be immune to one of the mage's primary damage spell. If they breach you, well, you can just drink another one and they put themselves at disadvantage. It is really good and rangers are also among the classes which sacrifice the least to pick it because they can select greater spell focus on a bonus favored enemy feat if they want. I'm not saying it's a must-take but saying it's definitely not worth taking on a ranger is incorrect and misleading. Just had to point that out.Good Character wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:07 amMildly useful, but definitely not worth taking on a ranger and surely not worth it for the -ward ability.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
I agree to some extent, but 1. It wastes an epic feat, and 2. The epic spell is just really weak in my opinion and is hard to inject into everyday RP. As I explained in my post, it serves such a specific, niche role that you are hardly ever going to be able to set-up unless it's a planned meeting.AstralUniverse wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:54 pmI was assuming you refer to sf and gsf abjuration because that's the question you were answering, but I should have realized you are talking about -ward, from how you wrote it. Yeah, on one hand investing a feat for -ward/-ward teleport seems like a waste, but isnt this whole class about the RP cookies and pretending to be a wizard anyway? If you're a ranger and you've picked gsf abjuration (because it's a really valid option) then there's no reason not to take the secret for RP's sake, since you're picking this class for RP's sake only.Good Character wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:18 pmTaking ESF: Abjuration on a ranger is definitely not worth it, which is what I was talking about.AstralUniverse wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:13 am
Hey uh... dont say that. gsf abjuration on a ranger is actually really good because it means you can drink a 28 gp potion and be immune to one of the mage's primary damage spell. If they breach you, well, you can just drink another one and they put themselves at disadvantage. It is really good and rangers are also among the classes which sacrifice the least to pick it because they can select greater spell focus on a bonus favored enemy feat if they want. I'm not saying it's a must-take but saying it's definitely not worth taking on a ranger is incorrect and misleading. Just had to point that out.
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Also, it doesn't just block teleport-- it blocks scrying as well. Tremendously useful for some characters.
Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Underdark or surface?
Ranger/loremaster only or a third class?
I'd like to hear more about the concept to offer any input. What you have outlined currently is mostly just a basic Ranger package that any Ranger will have default for the most part.
Why are you taking loremaster? What kind of RP are you looking for?
As it stands I'd just say - don't take loremaster. Any other class combo is superior so we need some flavor guidance on what you want to see in the RP.
Irongron wrote: [...] the super-secret Arelith development roadmap is a post apocalyptic wasteland populated with competing tribes of hand-bombard wielding techno-giants, and strewn with the bones of long dead elves.
So we're very much on track.
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Why? I think a loremaster 3 or 4 level dip can be a decent choice if you prefer its benefits to bard or rogue. All you need is 16 int and some lore after all which isn't an unreasonable requirement and you get UMD, spellcraft, a few other skills, a bonus feat which in a ranger's case can get a normally ESF ability and a bonus language. I would never say "anything else is superior."
10 loremaster levels is going to be in the "RP character" territory sure (which is fine and dandy if that's what you're going for and know the drawbacks) but 3 is totally doable.
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Because of the lack of Tumble. Which means in order to make mechanical advantage of this class you need a very specific build that already gets tumble discipline. You basically need a build that is quite solid with 2 classes, and then add LM there as a minor boost to ac/ab. Otherwise, dont take loremaster, unless, again, you are in it for the cookies. Swashbuckler builds can get away with loremaster more easily. Otherwise Bard/rogue IS objectively better.
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Missing tumble? Ranger/monk can support three loremaster levels, maybe even ranger/rogue or ranger/swashbuckler or ranger/assassin... As long as you have 21 ranger levels and bane of enemies there's quite a bit of room to add two classes and be a more than competent character.
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
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Re: Ranger / Loremaster
Svrtr wrote:I've spoken with Kenji and warpriest will be allowed to take elemental avatar so keep this in mind too