[Rogue abilities] Shared Abilities

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White_935
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:13 pm

[Rogue abilities] Shared Abilities

Post by White_935 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:32 pm

Based on a currently approved , but not implemented suggestion, i wish to discuss the viability of sharing all of the rogue abilities with the other divergent classes of the "sneaking classes" (Assassin, rogue, Shadow dancer).

I really feel giving the rogue speed bonus to shadow dancers, both makes the "better" rogue class, even better than it already is in comparison, to the rogue class that it inherits from.
and SD is already superior to both rogue, and assassins, allowing the divergence classes to inherit all the benefits of the primary class, seems a bit counter-productive.

While i see the reason for it, would it not be better to keep the classes somewhat separate, and allow rogues to have their primarily benefits.

Perhaps a change could be that other classes does count for the benefits as currently, but only 1/2 level, rather than a full level stack.

It feels a bit sad leaving the only unique rogue feature being a "grenadier", there the class falls short of every other class in similar branches but being good at throwing grenades.

Anything the rogue offers otherwise is acquired by dipping 3 levels into the class.

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Diegovog
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:23 pm

Re: [Rogue abilities] Shared Abilities

Post by Diegovog » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:22 pm

I somewhat agree and I would really like that other classes were able to use these rogue-only items. Assassins being mechanically inferior would likely become tier A with a buff like this. But I dont see why SD needs more buff considering they are everywhere nowadays and are pretty strong already.

Wuthering
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Re: [Rogue abilities] Shared Abilities

Post by Wuthering » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:41 pm

Shadowdancers are far superior to rogues for grinding PVE but rogues are better in PVP. The shadow doesn't auto-guard you in PVP and if you're heavy SD your sneak attack is going to be much lower than a heavy rogue especially if your shadow is done away with.

Not saying tweaks couldn't be made (that goes for everything) but I think rogue is in a good place. If you give up rogue levels to go 14+ SD you'll give up considerable PVP offense for a little more survivability and (frankly ridiculous) leveling speed.

Jordenk
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Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:56 am

Re: [Rogue abilities] Shared Abilities

Post by Jordenk » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Wuthering wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:41 pm
Shadowdancers are far superior to rogues for grinding PVE but rogues are better in PVP. The shadow doesn't auto-guard you in PVP and if you're heavy SD your sneak attack is going to be much lower than a heavy rogue especially if your shadow is done away with.

Not saying tweaks couldn't be made (that goes for everything) but I think rogue is in a good place. If you give up rogue levels to go 14+ SD you'll give up considerable PVP offense for a little more survivability and (frankly ridiculous) leveling speed.
This 100%. If you want to build a "competitive" SD, you're taking 5 lvls. Going more than that is for flavor and preference. It's just for HIPS. Rogue is mechanically better in almost every way. Shadow daze is meh, shadow evade is cool to be sure, but not worth the tradeoffs. Epic Shadowlord as stated is really powerful in PVE but basically useless in PVP. And frankly who needs to optimize for PVE performance? At lvl 30 it's pretty easy to crush most dungeons with 2-3 people if you have a decent build and know what you're doing. I notice that with my damage output my Shadow can actually survive fairly long even though it is super weak, simply because I kill things very quickly with the sneak attacks. Add in Epic Dodge and expertise, I don't really ever miss my shadow in PVE when it dies.

All that said, I'm not sure modifying SD makes sense either. The fact it's a 5 lvl dip rather than 1 is great. It will just mean that ppl take more SD lvls over rogue and result in basically the same thing.

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Diegovog
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Re: [Rogue abilities] Shared Abilities

Post by Diegovog » Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:38 pm

Yeah this could work well. Would make dedicated SD very useful in espionage.
And rogues would make some pretty good profit from selling their items to SDs and Assassins.

I like this.

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