Half-Elf

[CptJonas]

Is it just my opinion or is Half-Elf worst race in existence?

No unique visuals...no in game bonuses like acces to places where only elves can go...

And from mechanical point they are just worse then both human and elf...or in that regard worse Than any other race probably (only maybe svilf but they atlest have unique city, weapon, etc,...)

My ideas how to change it...

1st option:
Remove dodge and give them..
Bonus Proficiencies (Longsword, Rapier, Shortbow, Longbow)
Skilled: 4 extra skill points at 1st level, plus 1 additional skill point at each following level..


2nd option:
Give them option to choose from 2 unique minor gifts

Human heritage: Quick to Master: 1 extra feat

Elven heritage: +2 DEX

With both of these options they gain something from both races...not all but something...so they are not entierly one or other...

But it would make sense from RP standpoint...it would open new build options...and actualy give you reason to pick this race without bad taste in your mouth...

Your opinions?

[Lilja_91]

These are actually some pretty cool suggestions. Make the half-elves be able to choose which side they take more from.

I like both option 1 and 2.

[JustMonika]

Half Elves have access to Myon, don't they?

Also they can be Arcane Archers.

[Za-Lord~s Guard]

For my experiences, there has never been a case that I’ve played a half-elf without feeling that the same concept wouldn’t be more effective as a human.

This is more a case of the human racial traits being the best in NWN (a free feat and extra skill points equivalent to a higher INT bonus are crazy helpful).

It wouldn’t be so bad if, like with half-orcs, half-elves were at least a competitive option for certain builds.

As it stands currently, picking half-elf doesn’t change much in the positive other than your languages and your access to Myon (the latter of which doesn’t apply to evil half-elves).


Adding the “Skilled” feat and an option of +1 to various stats based on the specific elven parentage would be pretty neat.

[Shadowy Reality]

Aren't they on par with the human cookie cutter weaponmaster build?
With the added benefit of having access to the moonblade, elven language and Myon.

I totally agree with the changes proposed here, to make them able to choose perks from each side. But they are not really weak for the one build they were designed for.

[CptJonas]

Aren't they on par with the human cookie cutter weaponmaster build?
With the added benefit of having access to the moonblade, elven language and Myon.

I totally agree with the changes proposed here, to make them able to choose perks from each side. But they are not really weak for the one build they were designed for.

As you said...they have 1 build where they can be +- on samé level as human That doesnt exactly sound good...
And on samé build you can také human for just +4 scimitar...or if you realy want that +5 weapon I would still rather go with Wood elf...which is anyway better option (2+ str in trade for con? Good trade for WM)

[Ork]

Aren't they on par with the human cookie cutter weaponmaster build?
With the added benefit of having access to the moonblade, elven language and Myon.

No. Half-elves have -33 skill points compared to humans. This is a large issue due to the lore tax.

[CptJonas]

Aren't they on par with the human cookie cutter weaponmaster build?
With the added benefit of having access to the moonblade, elven language and Myon.

No. Half-elves have -33 skill points compared to humans. This is a large issue due to the lore tax.

To put it simply...Half-Elves are no good

[AstralUniverse]

Half elves arent supposed to be common, therefore it shouldnt be on par with human or elf. But it does get dodge so for a WM the difference is mostly 33 skill points traded for language, moon blade, some minor bonuses from elf. For none WMs the boon for half elf is mostly just the language and the items. In rare cases it will actually fit the build somehow, or just not ruin it enough to blow up the concept, thus the race remains unpopular but not none existent. Seems intended to me but perhaps not up to date with the 2019 updates.

[CptJonas]

Half elves arent supposed to be common, therefore it shouldnt be on par with human or elf. But it does get dodge so for a WM the difference is mostly 33 skill points traded for language, moon blade, some minor bonuses from elf. For none WMs the boon for half elf is mostly just the language and the items. In rare cases it will actually fit the build somehow, or just not ruin it enough to blow up the concept, thus the race remains unpopular but not none existent. Seems intended to me but perhaps not up to date with the 2019 updates.

I just have coment on this "Half elves arent supposed to be common, therefore it shouldnt be on par with human or elf. "

In true...I lore they should be on par with humans and elves even better in some regards...
They should have good mix of both races without any usual bad traits...

If we dont want to have them common...well...then mechanical balance isnt exactly good way in my opinion...

And yeah..they seems quite dated...

[magistrasa]

It's pretty unfortunate that when you see a half elf you can be reasonably confident that they are one of 3 builds. Giving the race more versatility, at the very least insofar as skillpoints go, would go a long way in opening up roleplay possibilities.

[JustMonika]

People really over-worry about skillpoints.
They're relevent almost exclusively in PvP, and characters can go their entire lives without even getting involved.

[CptJonas]

People really over-worry about skillpoints.
They're relevent almost exclusively in PvP, and characters can go their entire lives without even getting involved.

Where do you play?

There is basicly no skill that is usefull only in PVP...in other words all skills usefull in PVP are also super usefull in PVE...

And there is realy big number QaL skills and RP skills...

"People really over-worry about skillpoints."
Tell that to any Cleric player

[JustMonika]

People really over-worry about skillpoints.
They're relevent almost exclusively in PvP, and characters can go their entire lives without even getting involved.

Where do you play?

There is basicly no skill that is usefull only in PVP...in other words all skills usefull in PVP are also super usefull in PVE...

And there is realy big number QaL skills and RP skills...

"People really over-worry about skillpoints."
Tell that to any Cleric player

I've been playing in Arelith for ten years.
I've never played an optimal build. Indeed, I've repeatedly played -bad- builds, Epic Wizards with 16 Int.
Epic Sorceress with 7 Con.
I've never skilldumped. Yet I've still played all the way into the mid and late epics, enjoyed myself beaten most of the games content solo.
Yes, skillpoints are great. More skill points is better. But you don't -need- them. You don't need lore. You don't need discpline. Or spellcraft. Or tumble. They're accessories, nice things to have but you can play the game just fine without them. Any build is viable asa half elf, it might be objectively -better- as a human. But you don't need to play "The Best" Because even 7th best is still good enough for a world built on roleplay and stories and not charactersheets and statistics.

[Zavandar]

ah is this why you tell people bg is better than paladin

[cowboy]

Half-Elf should be something like this:

their base NWN stats.

A choice between Keen Senses or Elven Weapon Proficiency as a feat.

And then a blood background;

Moon Elf + 1 DEX

Sun Elf +1 INT

Wood Elf +1 Strength

Wild Elf +1 CON

(and some wild card options for the future)

Half-Drow: choice between +1 INT, DEX, or CHA and you get Darkvision, Undercommon, and Xanalress.

Half-Sea Elf, +1 CON and Drown Immunity / interactions with water stuff without dying / being better.

[JustMonika]

ah is this why you tell people bg is better than paladin

As a base class, it would be. Those summons would be pretty op at those levels.

[Zavandar]

I'm not going to derail the thread

I think coming into a mechanics discussion and saying "mechanics dont matter, be okay with being sub-par" is bad form. If that was what the OP wanted to do, they wouldnt have made the thread

[AstralUniverse]

Half-Elf should be something like this:

their base NWN stats.

A choice between Keen Senses or Elven Weapon Proficiency as a feat.

And then a blood background;

Moon Elf + 1 DEX

Sun Elf +1 INT

Wood Elf +1 Strength

Wild Elf +1 CON

+1 stat and no penalty to negate is too strong. I'd just pick +1 str on my WM build and close my eyes, pretending I just picked great strength at lvl 1 on my human fighter. Too strong bro.

EDIT:
But I'll follow your line of thought with my suggestion, because I like your direction. How about instead of +1 to a stat, +1skill? (as in +4 at lvl 1, +1 per lvl from lvl 2 and forward, like normal skill).

Moon elf = hide
sun elf = lore
wood elf = discipline
wild elf = concentration

Ending up with the same number of points as human but to a pre-fixed racial related skill.

[Zavandar]

well then that becomes a matter of an epic feat and keen senses vs 33 skill points. Much more in line

[AstralUniverse]

well then that becomes a matter of an epic feat and keen senses vs 33 skill points. Much more in line

I could be entirely wrong here and did not check the math, but as a WM doesnt it actually worth taking that +1 str SO much more than 33 skill points? I'd probably take less than 14 int and invest it into str or con if expertise didnt require 13. Again, I could be entirely wrong here.

[Zavandar]

In the day of our lore 159, those skills are very important

[Wrips]

Half Elves have access to Lesser Moonblades, which helps to offset the skillpoints tax, at the cost of versatility. I think a good step to increase versatility is to simply make the Dodge feat a free feat, like Human.

[CptJonas]

Half Elves have access to Lesser Moonblades, which helps to offset the skillpoints tax, at the cost of versatility. I think a good step to increase versatility is to simply make the Dodge feat a free feat, like Human.

I am agains this with all my soul...
Its simply too much mechanical advatage with nearly no posibility for RP boon...skills atleast give you chance to have place for more RP skills...
But no...no free feat...
Main reason why we have that global "problem" with humans being moust picked even in places where other races would make more sense or would be more interesting, is that free feat...skillpoints too but that is lesser evil...
We definetly dont need to have another 0ECL, no negative, free feat, race...just dont

[Wrips]

I'm mostly talking about mechanical power. Mechanical versatility, after all, broadens the path for roleplay.

If the question about certain races being under represented in the server was solely a question of mechanical power, then the UD would have been made of Orog Bardguards.