AstralUniverse wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:37 pm
Ork wrote: ↑
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:27 pm
Regular rogues are still great. I'm sitting here scratching my head when regular rogues get: near-infinite haste, high AC, +2 ENCHANT, +2 AB out of stealth, +50% movement speed in stealth, trap improvement, grenades, epic dodge, and stealth. What are we griping about?
Pretty much this. I'm playing a rogue bg atm with venom immunity and it's been a real blast. I dont mind the nerfs and I still think my character is more than just functional. 76 ac with epic dodge, +5 mod vs DR, powders for the masses... And also the fighter version 24/6 with two weapon feats, specialization and crippling strike, still very good.
Skipping past the fact that blinding speed isn't actually haste, rogue ms is 30% at lvl 24 and grenades just got nerfed into oblivion... here's the point.
The issue is not that it is impossible to build a great rogue now or theorycraft an op one. Nor is it that mine is completely useless. It's that many people who built Rogues or other classes in the past (not in maybe the exact way you're describing) are getting hit by this stuff because of the nature of the nerfs when they are in fact NOT the actual problem. When my PC has AC in the mid 50's, AB in the low 40's and no BG for divine saves, hearing you two say "well yah it's fine, look what I have (76 AC, div saves etc) doesn't do me any good.
Now, if I could re-level to adapt to the systematic changes that have nerfed the way I (and clearly OTHERS) have built their Rogues, then absolutely I would agree and say "what are we griping about, just fix it and no issues." That is at least 25% of my point here in the original post. If you're not hugely affected, great! I'm very happy for you in earnest. Just because your rogue is still great doesn't mean others' haven't been whittled away on in a frustrating way (excluding monks which definitely need it).
EVEN THEN, if you are playing a monk/rogue dip or ranger/monk and a nerf comes across (I'm sure there's more coming) that changes the way your build works or its viability, the team should over relevels. There are tools to do it now after the lore/UMD change (as I understand it) and it does no damage to server health, in fact it makes players feel that those making decisions and these changes actually care about how it may affect people playing these PC's rather than taking the stance of... "yah it's an evolving server, things change I'm sorry you don't like it."
For me grenades were a tool in my kit, for some it was a cornerstone of their build and they were playing "Grenadiers." This wasn't just a mechanical gimmick but a core part of the RP and character identity. Can their character still be played? Yah, is it as effective or viable? No. Did grenades really need to get nerfed? Nope, still haven't heard a single reasonable argument in this regard. And even further there are about 5+ different ways to "adjust" grenade gameplay without just nerfing their damage significantly making them objectively an "ineffective by comparison" action in combat compared to most alternative present to well built epic PCs.