Writ Rewards - Need to find the bad ones!

[ClockworkRed]

Not a reward increase, but I would suggest not gating the Derro Temple writ (Raid of Noragh Norr) behind a skill check, that only a select few classes get. There's absolutely no need for the check, and no one knows it's needed until they discover it by accident by playing one of the THREE base classes that get the skill, and actually invest in it.

I would second that, if it was not already changed. I was actually trying to figure this riddle out. The sign says every adventurer who wants to enter can find out the solution so I thought I do not want to ask other players. I actually had an idea what the solution to the riddle is and wanted to try it out soon. I do not want to spoiler it if it was changed but if it is still a skill check i am happy to suggest my idea as alternative .

[Skarain]

The skill check for Norag Norr no longer exist. Any character can complete it.

[ClockworkRed]

As an aside I still plan on adjust writs to give XP only for the first successful completion once we have enough of them.

This is a great idea and I think it is important to do that before we extend writs into epics in the current system (as opposed to the RH system, which I think is better in every way regardless).

Sorry for raising old post, I just started reading the forums and, hence, started reading the threads from the beginning.

Not sure if this is still on the table but this comment made me thinking. One thing I love about the writ system on Arelith is that it really helps to quickly find a party. My concern would be that the number of writs one can do together would decline as the number of party members increases - assuming most people are more after the xp than gold.

Not sure if that is technically doable, but this came instantly to my mind: what about if writs give xp as long as one member of the party has not completed it before. Then the number of possible writs with xp reward would increase with party size. I also could think this could promote some nice rp, the more experienced warriors introducing an area to a newcomer.

[Arienette]

This isnt quite in the spirit of the OP but I dont know that it deserves its own thread.

Lately I have been running the "Path of Rhun" Dark Spire/Brog writ with some frequency. It, along with the Dark Spires Barbarians writ make a nice pair of writs for a low 20s character.

The problem is the mob density. The writ ask for 5 kills on the Path of Rhun and 10 kills at the mountain peak (ruins of the first dwarfs). Thats not a huge ask; however the mob density is so low it becomes a pain to complete.

I have completed this writ several times on different characters and I have NEVER been able to do it without some cheesy tactics drawing mobs between zones. The PoR zone often spawns no enemies at all. There's a cave with 1-3 orcs you can draw out into the PoR zone so thats what I end up doing.

The Mountain Peak zone almost never has 10 mobs. So between these 2 zones, you end up having to run around like a madman pulling mobs from one place to another in order to fulfil the writ requirements.

[Irongron]

This isnt quite in the spirit of the OP but I dont know that it deserves its own thread.

Lately I have been running the "Path of Rhun" Dark Spire/Brog writ with some frequency. It, along with the Dark Spires Barbarians writ make a nice pair of writs for a low 20s character.

The problem is the mob density. The writ ask for 5 kills on the Path of Rhun and 10 kills at the mountain peak (ruins of the first dwarfs). Thats not a huge ask; however the mob density is so low it becomes a pain to complete.

I have completed this writ several times on different characters and I have NEVER been able to do it without some cheesy tactics drawing mobs between zones. The PoR zone often spawns no enemies at all. There's a cave with 1-3 orcs you can draw out into the PoR zone so thats what I end up doing.

The Mountain Peak zone almost never has 10 mobs. So between these 2 zones, you end up having to run around like a madman pulling mobs from one place to another in order to fulfil the writ requirements.

I'll fix up those mob densities straight away. That takes no time at all.

[magistrasa]

I just got finished with the "Tomb of the King of Kings" writ and wow was it annoying.

First, the Climb check was atrocious, and would have been literally impossible for half my party members to do were it not for polymorph potions that one of our companions ran cross-server to fetch for us. Then after just barely clearing that DC 10 Climb check, we were faced with a DC 12 Climb check that we only cleared by the grace of god (and by luckily finding several scrolls in the forgotten corner of someone's inventory).
Second, the mobs within would have been awful to deal with were we not showing up with such overwhelming numbers, since there were an obscene amount of summoners and dispellers in their midst (but maybe we just got unlucky spawns).
Third, the gems and ore at the very end were nice, I guess, but one can't help but feel underwhelmed by the fact that the writ reward itself earns less than the Malarite Temple, which is far easier, far more accessible, and far more fun to do. And, well, it also takes way less time to complete (for me at least, with a good group I've cleared Malarites in minutes but I was in the Tomb of the King of Kings for like an hour).

It's a very cool place, don't get me wrong - the whole time I was there I was thoroughly impressed by the area design (save for the Climb checks, which I think should have at least a work-around of some kind) - but it feels like it's a noob trap and that's probably worth improving.

Does the dungeon offer terrible treasure/loot drops? (i.e constructs) INCREASE gold reward for writ!
Is the dungeon just really difficult/long/require a diverse skillset (ie larger parties) INCREASE the XP reward

I didn't even want to play anymore after that Ordeal so I didn't wait around to see what our corpse collector managed to scrounge up. As such, I can't accurately speak towards the phatness of loot. Not that many chests, but like I said, the ore and gems were very nice at the end. So jury's out on this one.
That said, the writ definitely falls into the second category here. If it weren't for the size of my party and the fact that we had a bard with us, we would have never made it through. I feel like there should be a bit more of a warning on the writ's description that better prepares people for the pit of misery they're about to throw themselves into.

Also, since the second gap that you have the Climb check in is smaller than the first, can the DC 12 be lowered to something like a DC 8 or something? It does kinda look like someone's character could just sort of leap over it, no climbing necessary. And it'd suck for people who geared up just enough to hit the DC 10 Climb check, only to cross and realize they need to go back out and get more stuff for a higher DC further in. Which is almost what my group had to do. After collectively having spent over 3,000 gold trying to get over that first gap. No writ reward would have been enough to entice me to go back in there at that point.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I just got finished with the "Tomb of the King of Kings" writ and wow was it annoying.

First, the Climb check was atrocious, and would have been literally impossible for half my party members to do were it not for polymorph potions that one of our companions ran cross-server to fetch for us. Then after just barely clearing that DC 10 Climb check, we were faced with a DC 12 Climb check that we only cleared by the grace of god (and by luckily finding several scrolls in the forgotten corner of someone's inventory).
Second, the mobs within would have been awful to deal with were we not showing up with such overwhelming numbers, since there were an obscene amount of summoners and dispellers in their midst (but maybe we just got unlucky spawns).
Third, the gems and ore at the very end were nice, I guess, but one can't help but feel underwhelmed by the fact that the writ reward itself earns less than the Malarite Temple, which is far easier, far more accessible, and far more fun to do. And, well, it also takes way less time to complete (for me at least, with a good group I've cleared Malarites in minutes but I was in the Tomb of the King of Kings for like an hour).

It's a very cool place, don't get me wrong - the whole time I was there I was thoroughly impressed by the area design (save for the Climb checks, which I think should have at least a work-around of some kind) - but it feels like it's a noob trap and that's probably worth improving.

Does the dungeon offer terrible treasure/loot drops? (i.e constructs) INCREASE gold reward for writ!
Is the dungeon just really difficult/long/require a diverse skillset (ie larger parties) INCREASE the XP reward

I didn't even want to play anymore after that Ordeal so I didn't wait around to see what our corpse collector managed to scrounge up. As such, I can't accurately speak towards the phatness of loot. Not that many chests, but like I said, the ore and gems were very nice at the end. So jury's out on this one.
That said, the writ definitely falls into the second category here. If it weren't for the size of my party and the fact that we had a bard with us, we would have never made it through. I feel like there should be a bit more of a warning on the writ's description that better prepares people for the pit of misery they're about to throw themselves into.

Also, since the second gap that you have the Climb check in is smaller than the first, can the DC 12 be lowered to something like a DC 8 or something? It does kinda look like someone's character could just sort of leap over it, no climbing necessary. And it'd suck for people who geared up just enough to hit the DC 10 Climb check, only to cross and realize they need to go back out and get more stuff for a higher DC further in. Which is almost what my group had to do. After collectively having spent over 3,000 gold trying to get over that first gap. No writ reward would have been enough to entice me to go back in there at that point.

I think you just had a bad party for that particular dungeon. The whole area has a dungeon delver/tomb raider theme to it, but this is the one writ that greatly rewards actually being that sort of character as opposed to "Just anyone can do it". It's also a good dungeon to have a shovel on.

[Red_Wharf]

stuff

That writ used to pay 7000gp (all tomb writs used to pay really well) but, for reasons unknown to mankind, they have been nerfed, in fact, most writs everywhere have had their gold rewards nerfed. About the climbing spots, I think that's the new climbing system's fault. I remember the climbing in that dungeon being really trivial.

[Kuma]

Dust Skeleton (Lord of Ash) needs to drop a boss head, he's an absolute beast and does give boss XP.

Also the Rotting Soldiers AB needs toned down, as does the prevalence of damage shields on the mage Dust Skeletons. I'm the maximum level for the writ and just got bodied without much recourse.

[AstralUniverse]

I think my only problem with the King of kings writ was the ropes. Normal "Climbing rope" didnt work for locating the anchor for the rope, only Lasso works for it, which was very confusing for me, leading me to think my swashbuckler is really bad at climbing for unknown reasons. Only when i got back to that place with someone who knew oocly what the right rope is, I was able to complete it. I do not think it is too difficult and I think the loot is overall okay. If there was a way to skip and not to murder the flying kittens it would be sweet but it's not the end of the world. I also think it's strange a bit that none of the kings in any of the tombs drop leader heads but maybe that's intentional and taken into account in the loot drop values.

[Drogo Gyslain]

One Writ that is truly bad, is the Myconid Writ on Skal.

1) It's boring. The writ itself is completed on a single map tile with less than a dozen required kills in a confined space.
2) The terrain is worse than boring. It's just a winding hill of crags. There was very little done to make this part of the landscape interesting. It's just go down, fight some myconids, go down, fight more myconids, find the formian, kill the formian. Going back and forth in a literal zig-zag is just annoying.
3) The reward is pretty weak compared to the other skal's. There are no chests in that map section, a few basic resource pits, and only 4-5 monster types for good drops.

So between being Boring, hard terrain and difficult navigation, along with a weak reward, it's not appealing compared to alot of other Skal Writs, like the Minotaurs or the Spider Rancher.

[Rico_scorpion]

The Lord of Ash needs serious looking at.

If that's an "on purpose" overtuning to keep players busy, then its location and associated writ are very much misplaced and almost rude in its conception ("ahah players, you're dead", whether that was the intent or not, it probably leaves that feeling to most of the players that this guy killed, combined with "okay, not going back there for questing"). Players can pretty easily see when "they're dead because of their boldness, miss-step, underpreparation, poor luck, wrong strategy, etc" or when it's "you're randomly and suddenly helpless in an area that just didn't advertise any kind of difficulty spike", the latter should really be avoided in order not to put players into that divisive mindset, I think.

If the overtuning wasn't on purpose, then please ignore (and forgive) the above and please consider nerfing him (his spellbook mostly, and probably melee AB/damage, can't have the best arcane spells of the game (bigby's bull rush..., and be good in melee, at that writ level...).

Anyway, butthurt feedback over.

Cue that one guy that wants to brag because "lel lord of ash is ez".

Cheers.

[ElvenEdibles]

King of Kings is frustratingly designed. Magistraa's complaints are identical to mine.

[Skald Haldi]

Tonight, my party spent six hours off-and-on trying to complete a writ, died several times due to "oops" one-shot-kill traps with DCs too high for us to disarm (even with a rogue in our party). Traps? That's what summons are for. So we pushed and pushed, but finally gave up b/c we couldn't figure out the puzzle that is even deeper in.

When we asked for helpful hints from other experienced players, the answer was (paraphrased) "I don't know either. Nobody does that writ because it's too hard and not worth it anyway. Just drop it."

The specific writ doesn't matter - the key is that in our area, other writs are completely farmed to death. We sometimes see queues of people waiting outside certain cave entrances so that they can go in and kill the writ in a few seconds so they can move on to the next writ.

In contrast, we spent our whole evening trying to complete our writ without seeing a single other person. In other words, OOC knowledge leads people to do the writs that OOC knowledge tells them are worthwhile to do.

My point is that you should record how many times each writ is completed successfully (by how many distinct players). That alone should give you some hint of which writs are too rewarding and which ones are unreasonable.

[Curve]

The specific writ doesn't matter

The point of this thread, to my understanding, is to find out what writs are bad and for what reason.

[Irongron]

It is worth noting that the majority of Arelith's dungeons predate the writ system, and the latter were made to fit them. Naturally this can sometimes be imperfect. Since this thread was started I've made many changes based upon the feedback, but I do need to know specifically where issues are before I can look at them.

[Skald Haldi]

My point is that you don't really even need to ask. You already have the data at your fingertips. I know Arelith already records for each character which writs they have done (so it can reward adventure XP). If there is a trend to do certain writs, but avoid others in the same area, that tells you something very important.

I expect that you also have data regarding which chests were opened (and how often) and where players died (and how often). Admittedly, NWN is 20 years old now, so it may be unfair comparing it with modern game analysis tools.

I don't want to call out which writ (and which puzzle), because the last time I did so, the forum responded by explaining how EASY it was and how they could do it when they were six years old, so I must have a low IQ. I don't want to start that discussion - because they might be right. Instead, I expect the numbers that you should have will speak for themselves - and solve not just one writ, but many at once.

[Aren]

Suggestion: Lower the level interval for the Norogh Norr writ (5-10 perhaps?). You can still pick this at level 12, at which point you grossly out-level and overpower the content of the writ. Also, I would keep the rewards as is - it is a long trek and the experience/gold rewards should reflect this.

[Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia]

Bump, hint hint!

[Kuma]

Pirate Writ
Clear the Storehouse
Objective 2: Kill yourself ten weevils.

Could stand to be changed to just kill any ten enemies in the storehouse, considering the spawns are a mix of rats and other undesirable vermin, and it's quite easy to not find ten weevils in there even with multiple spawns.

[Alyxnia]

Fortress of Destruction

Maybe it's just me, but all three times I've tried to do this writ I've never managed to figure out where "Seek an entrance in the caves beneath the Skull Crags" is supposed to be pointing me. It's incredibly vague and I've spent hours wandering the region to no avail.

Compare it to another writ from the same hub at the same level, The Goblin Town

This writ specifically explains where to go, along with area names.

[ltlukoziuz]

Fortress of Destruction

Maybe it's just me, but all three times I've tried to do this writ I've never managed to figure out where "Seek an entrance in the caves beneath the Skull Crags" is supposed to be pointing me. It's incredibly vague and I've spent hours wandering the region to no avail.

Compare it to another writ from the same hub at the same level, The Goblin Town

This writ specifically explains where to go, along with area names.

That's the issue of rework in the caves around Valtheran. They used to be much smaller and had better marks before. Now they're huge and there's no map pin to guide on any longer. Agreed it should have a bit better rewrite on writ. Something along the lines of:

"Step down deeper in the caves around Mount Valtheran, as there's rumours of local mines being connected with the Stonehold, its stone used for construction"

[La Villa Strangiato]

Writs that weren't so good for me:

-Derro caves sonic traps should be cut down a bit IMHO, they tend to take a big chunk out of your HP for the recommended level. Can stun you so you get ganged up on by a bunch of enemies.
-Holy god, nerf the Underdark Spider in the Petrified Forest writ. Has upwards of 40AC, called shot, whirlwind attack????
-It's not so bad with a group, but I kind of feel like the Slime Temple could stand to be downsized a bit. I remember my first few runs trying to find Taugonz I kept getting lost, and then owned hard by slime trolls.
-Myconids boss has uhhh ACID SHEATH?????? For a low-teens writ, wake me up inside.

This is rather haphazard and glib, so I will probably come back to this poast later.

[Fava Beans]

a minor toning down on the dispels that the kuo-toa cast in the ziggurat

a toning down of the dispels cast in the shadow asylum

Cloaker door go bye bye please

a severe toning down for grimlocks invisibility purge, using improved invis there for concealment is useless, on mobs that crit for 70-90 damage on a writ offered at like level 9 is doom. (perhaps some fixed purge spawns? the lasting effect of it makes it even harder since they chase you after they cast it, even if you survive the first cast all they need to do is get close to remove your valuable concealment

nerf the concealment on the slaad in the belfry tower, that fight alone can take 10-15 minutes just because he is so hard to hit.

Please add a lever to backtrack through the locked door in the urae slaanis (spelling?) it forces you to climb back out otherwise, Also more clear climbing text, the way out indicates it will be a near impossible climb but it seems a super low skill check

EDIT, not really a writ thing, but the night hunters that spawn around saltspar might need to be looked at, given where they spawn, and i still get xp for them into epic levels they might need some adjustment, or at least reduced spawn count

[Kenji]

Gnoll War Camp could use a quick exit like Skyrim dungeons or some other writs instead of having to backtrack to the entrance!