HIPS Nerf

[AstralUniverse]

If you needed to game HiPS to win, you deserved to be nerfed.

The hard truth.

[Zenko]

I get that a lot of you do not like HIPS but i have made some good RP situations with HIPS and it has made for some fun story arcs too.
Yes its a big hit for alot of us as, i have 17 Levels into SD and right now i really dont want to get into any PVP situations anymore.
However i trust the Devs will see that SD needs a little bit more as there is alot that this class is missing out on.
The reason for the relevel in my view would be to focus more on being able to escape mid fight and to be able to run and go into stealth from running behind a wall and what not.
At the moment i really didn't think of doing anything like this because i really didn't need to with the old HIPS.

[AstralUniverse]

I get that a lot of you do not like HIPS but i have made some good RP situations with HIPS and it has made for some fun story arcs too.
Yes its a big hit for alot of us as, i have 17 Levels into SD and right now i really dont want to get into any PVP situations anymore.
However i trust the Devs will see that SD needs a little bit more as there is alot that this class is missing out on.
The reason for the relevel in my view would be to focus more on being able to escape mid fight and to be able to run and go into stealth from running behind a wall and what not.
At the moment i really didn't think of doing anything like this because i really didn't need to with the old HIPS.

This... isnt very nice to say. I dont think the most of us even dislike hips the slightest in regards to the RP you can pull of with that (which, hasnt changed and you can still disappear in people's face same as before?). If you have 17 SD levels, the nerf to hips is the least of your concerns when you decide whether or not to enter pvp because your build is not designed to be good in pvp with 17 sd lvls anyway. I also dont see how a relevel helps you learn to concer-sneak better. It's simply something people practice until they're good at. It's something a rogue should want to practice, hips or not. This entire thread is really full of people who didnt lose any functionality in their build but want a relevel because their cheese-ball went out the window.

[Zenko]

I get that a lot of you do not like HIPS but i have made some good RP situations with HIPS and it has made for some fun story arcs too.
Yes its a big hit for alot of us as, i have 17 Levels into SD and right now i really dont want to get into any PVP situations anymore.
However i trust the Devs will see that SD needs a little bit more as there is alot that this class is missing out on.
The reason for the relevel in my view would be to focus more on being able to escape mid fight and to be able to run and go into stealth from running behind a wall and what not.
At the moment i really didn't think of doing anything like this because i really didn't need to with the old HIPS.

This... isnt very nice to say. I dont think the most of us even dislike hips the slightest in regards to the RP you can pull of with that (which, hasnt changed and you can still disappear in people's face same as before?). If you have 17 SD levels, the nerf to hips is the least of your concerns when you decide whether or not to enter pvp because your build is not designed to be good in pvp with 17 sd lvls anyway. I also dont see how a relevel helps you learn to concer-sneak better. It's simply something people practice until they're good at. It's something a rogue should want to practice, hips or not. This entire thread is really full of people who didnt lose any functionality in their build but want a relevel because their cheese-ball went out the window.

The feats i have chosen were based on HIPS and how i can jump in and out of combat, i can understand how people think its a "cheese ball" thing to do. My SD is not good at PVP as it is and HIPS allowed me to keep in the fight for a good amount of time until i figured out a counter attack on the person i was fighting against. Im sorry that you thought it was not a nice thing to say but there is alot of people on here that dont like HIPS and im just saying my piece on the matter as this does affect how i play the game.

[Shiki]

Cheese ball is not what we think it is.

Cheese ball is things like heal chugging (A real, necessary tactic in circumstances that obtain, but awful). Cheese ball is things like the Evo combo as it used to exist before being destroyed (A real, necessary tactic for mages, which was very difficult to do vs players who understood what to do to counter it, part of which was heal chugging, but the key was something else, and which has not been replaced by another tactic to give them similar capability, though I am not endorsing any need for a real change. They're allowed to have unwinnable situations just like other people can get into). Cheese ball is starting to ward in the middle of a tense conversation, before !s or fighting have started, while the other person is talking at you.

Cheese ball is things that are cheesy, stupid, game-mechanicky, or outright just bad (unskilled, refusing to put in the actual effort) players playing in bad faith in an effort to win fights they are too ignorant to otherwise even attempt.

Cheese ball is things that are not factually, actual engine function enforced cheating, it's just stuff that's cheesy. Hide in Plain Sight automatically flatfoots anyone regardless of attempts to counter it, because the effect of Hide in Plain Sight has no counters. You cannot counterplay HIPS. You can counterplay stealth, the thing HIPS modifies, but the modification HIPS makes is not counterable at all. You can have 600 spot, listen, or both and you will be flatted when your attack command on the HIPSer is interrupted. You can be truesighted and HIPS will still do this (but the opportunities for that will be very rare).

'We' do not think that that is cheesy.

[Anomandaris]

If you needed to game HiPS to win, you deserved to be nerfed.

The hard truth.

Wow. How is this constructive, germane to the mechanical convo and anything other than super judgy? Deserve to be nerfed? As in there’s some morale aspect to this? I’m a bad player because I built a perfectly common build and thus was owed some retributive justice?

Where does this kind of sentiment even come from? It’s a little insulting to insinuate I or anyone else that is upset with the changes’ impact on their chars must lack skill due to the fact they disagree and are peeved with the nerf.

[Ork]

There is no insinuation. Here's the rub, HiPS was not nerfed due to how you or your character played this game. HiPS was nerfed due to a stark imbalance in how various counter-plays work. It needs a cooldown longer than 2 rounds as you could engage, full flurry attack and disengage to do it all over again shortly thereafter with no counterplay. Abilities like that need a tax. How you used HiPS has no bearing on why HiPS needed a longer cooldown, however how some people used HiPS knew how broken a mechanic it was and exploited it.

Hell I have a 16SD character and I knew it was bad juju.

[Defense Light Fables]

Scurvy said it best. End thread!