Shadowdancer Rework Brainstorming Megathread

[Eyeliner]

I mean.. it sounds like best of both worlds, why complain? I'm very happy there's a trend towards keeping the "classic" when introducing new variations.

[Deep Fried Thinking Emoji]

It's really sad to hear that the rework is being dropped because some people just can't accept that Shadowdancer right now is in a bad spot and that, even losing HiPS, the rework would have been an improvement. I'm looking forward to that new PrC. It would be nice if the requisites to take it were similar to those of SD, so that those of us that are cool with the changes can relevel into it.

[skellyboi]

Disclaimer: I don't actively play on Arelith per se, but over the past few years I've made a handful of characters and played them for a few weeks.

That disclaimer given, I did most recently play a shadowdancer who's still about, but not active. Lost interest/life too busy, etc. The class itself is fun, but not particularly powerful in my opinion. I do think something is needed for the class, but I'm not sure that the suggestions given in the initial post (I haven't read all the replies to be fair) were going to meaningfully improve the class. To me — and I fully acknowledge the thought that must have been put into the post before it was made — they seemed scattershot.

The idea of temporary shadows is very cool, Garr. I love the thematic elements you've put into all of these suggestions. The single round of Greater Sanctuary, the VFX, everything was very well-conceived from a thematic standpoint. What I don't get is how they'd make the shadowdancer meaningfully better.

The class isn't very powerful, but the wholesale removal of the permanent shadow (which also affects the intriguing notion of adding RP elements to the permanent shadow in the suggestion box, although an RP summon was later discussed) can't be an improvement, neither do the other suggestions substantively add effect to the capability. The removal of rogue synergy seems utterly and completely bizarre to me. I don't understand this thinking at all, nor what the rationale behind it might be.

In short, I'd love to see work done on a class that needs it, but I think if the suggestions as they exist in the introductory post to this thread are those that will be implemented, it's better not to have made them at all. Maybe as a new class, like Garrbear's suggested because they are unique and exciting and fun. A class that already needs love may not need this sort though.

[98lbs of sad carryweight]

This is sad and if HiPs eventually goes its just gonna be the "i guess it does pve well as a mundane martial" since its crutch is gone.

Hurray for 2 new classes I guess.

Rest well, Shadowdancer, peaking as a 2h STR farmbot if you dont want to farm even better on summon casters.

[Waldo52]

Considering the popularity of shadowdancer (2nd most played prestige class after weapon master) and the very mixed reception of these ideas, I'm going to leave shadowdancer as is.

With that said, I'll be working on two new classes that will incorporate many of these ideas.

I really like your willingness to listen to negative bits of feedback and to take something positive out of it with new class development. I'm excited to see what happens.

[Sandrow]

Sometimes rebuild is easier than modification and repair. Especially for shadowdancer, a popular class among us all. garrbear758, your idea and designment is brilliant that these features can project an image of what a supernatural shadow weaver would do or show out in real life. I like this very much.

However, brainstorming is frustrating, and you have to deal with all these opinions standing by various sides.
For hips, one they one hand, many players believe that it will be banned entirely, and a remake of shadowdancer is a must. On the other hand, shadowdancers can't use scrolls or wands to enhance their shadows since the runic sequencer update. It's no longer that easy to have a shadow with 12 more abilities than yourself, and no further adjustment of shadowdancer happens till now. For those on this side, they would accept the loss of hips, and willing to see more interesting things to happen on shadowdancers.

But still, since most shadowdancer comes from rogues, we are greedy, and can't help to want more. Hips is great, we can't lose it, greater sanctuary for one round is not enough at all! And we still want the shadow guard, the stronger the better.

Including myself, I would also imagine how would my SD character deal with this or that. And that's why I gave a lot of reply. I'm sorry for disturbing you garrbear758. From my years of experience in Arelith, making cool new things is much better than doing balance adjust all the time. And you are in the very direction.

And if possible, please let one of the classes still shadow theme related. Travel through the shadow plane by your own gate is so cool

[TimeAdept]

HIPS is notoriously one of the most core-engine level broken things in the entire game and anyone who adamantly defends its existence is either A: oblivious, or B: deliberately obtuse about the level of broken it is, and after picking A or B are C: woefully unimaginative about the design space you could give SD when not shackled to such a huge portion of its power budget going to that one button.

A real shame.

[Opustus]

I wonder if it's feasible just to add and remove the HiPS feat on cooldown and hasClassSdX conditions and if this would effectively fix the bitchiness that just results from you having the feat?

For the teleport ability it helps to keep a short leash, and I think it's possible to calculate the change in coordinates to block height-level differences.

[Ebonstar]

Seriously?

There were some insanely cool ideas and dropping that after a bit of critical feedback feels very...meh.

It wasn't a bit. It was a lot. And the ideas aren't getting dropped. They're going to be used in new classes instead of reworking something many people already like.

Instead of new classes, perhaps just make them into paths like you have choice of with rangers, that way those who want classic SD still have that choice, and those who dont have the choice for the other variants too.

[DM Potato]

Hello!

As this is no longer relevant I'll be closing this thread.