Nerf this

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Tarkus the dog
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Nerf this

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:37 pm

Hey.

I think that holy sword should be nerfed. The change I am proposing is that it should be switched to breach on first attack, instead of dispel on every hit. I also think their CL needs to go. Everything else about paladins seem fine in my opinion, except for the holy sword. The holy sword makes them unreasonably strong. The CL part is just sort of a meme that I never understood. Why are they the only class that has it? I don't get it.

What else? Oh, yeah, EDK.

It's overtuned. In what sense? In a sense that if you drop it on an average Arelith player, they'll probably try to fight it with their fists. Everyone else ( a minority from what I've witnessed over the years ) will either have already used a dismissal wand beforehand to block it from being summoned in the first place or be ready to Mord + WoF the dragon to get rid of it. Why is this a bad thing? Because the same way barbarian biteback was removed. It's a 'press a button to win' kinda deal that works against most people. And this is not fun, or good, or challenging for anyone. No, not even for the cleric who's ready to instantly Word of Faith it. It's also just too strong, in general. Give it cleric buffs and watch it walk over everything in it's path. Then suddenly, it trips over the smallest rubble on the ground and is unsure what to do with the rest of it's limited lifespan.

I also heard that druids are powerful, but I haven't played one or with one to tell if this is true. However, judging from the stats I've seen, this is likely to be true.

That's all I have for now. Thanks and have a good day.

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:50 pm

Please add health potions to the list, I know last thread was a complete poop storm. But after being in a fight with 4 people and just drinking health potions while my summon killed them one at a time would definitely in my opinion make them not "Complete crap." As people tend to claim they are. Especially when druids can drink them in fire elemental form which is pretty laughable because that's pretty much a biteback barbarian right there.

CptJonas
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Re: Nerf this

Post by CptJonas » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:28 pm

Well....

Holly sword is basicly only reason why anyone plays paladin over 4 level dip...Its basicly only reason why they are even usable as main class in PVP....They are good for only one thing...as mage killers..

And that cry at EDK and Druid...do you realize that both are basicly PVE only thing?
EDK is used in PVE just to kill bosses....those bosses who tear apart every other summon in 2 rounds...
In PVP, as you said, is realy easy to, 1) ignor them (if you have any reasonable AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them...

Druid...welll...druids are just tanky PVE gods....you can solo clear endgame dungeons with it...you can farm loverdark in 19-21 level solo...
But in PVP they are...ehhh....lets say...no AB, and damage....summons can be dissmissed....yeah...they are tanky but thats all...they can do anything to you and you can just ignor them...you will not kill them solo..but neither will they....

PS: Nearly forgot...druids have low saves so you can moust likely destroy them with spells...

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:58 pm

CptJonas wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:28 pm
Well....

1. Holly sword is basicly only reason why anyone plays paladin over 4 level dip...Its basicly only reason why they are even usable as main class in PVP....They are good for only one thing...as mage killers..

2. And that cry at EDK and Druid...do you realize that both are basicly PVE only thing?
EDK is used in PVE just to kill bosses....those bosses who tear apart every other summon in 2 rounds...
In PVP, as you said, is realy easy to, 1) ignor them (if you have any reasonable AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them...

3. Druid...welll...druids are just tanky PVE gods....you can solo clear endgame dungeons with it...you can farm loverdark in 19-21 level solo...
But in PVP they are...ehhh....lets say...no AB, and damage....summons can be dissmissed....yeah...they are tanky but thats all...they can do anything to you and you can just ignor them...you will not kill them solo..but neither will they....

PS: Nearly forgot...druids have low saves so you can moust likely destroy them with spells...

I'll handle these point form because it makes it easier.

1. Paladins can easily get massive amounts of AC making them incredibly anti-melee also. Thinking paladins are /only/ good as a mage killer is incorrect. They just do not deal as much damage to soft targets as weapon masters, to equate that to being useless is just plain wrong.

2. I kill people with my EDK all the time including top tier melee players. Go fight a competent caster with EDK as a melee. Go fight someone with EDK without access to UMD. Ever been pinned to a wall by a EDK? Ever been knocked down by an EDK? These things are literally the golden standard in power.

3. A druid can definitely kill you. It isn't going to run you down like a hasted weaponmaster but once again, access to EDK provides all the damage a character needs to ruin your day.


Just because you can dispel EDK doesn't mean it is useless. It just means the summoner needs to actually think instead of mindlessly dropping EDK the first 10 seconds in the fight against a caster cleric.

Astral
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Astral » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:00 pm

Okay. This is an excellent thread!

Holy Sword:
I dont have a big deal of an opinion cause my experience with paladin is 4 lvl dip but I will just say that paladins take VERY long time to warp up. They have lots of spells to cast before they are at their god-mode and there are many counters to them before/during that time. I've not seen any paladin build rofl-stomps villains left and right yet and I've played with many if not all lvl 30 paladins on the surface.
I still wanna lvl a 21 paladin 6 monk 3 rogue build with no cha and quarterstaff and see how holy sword feels like with 10 apr.

EDK: PLEASE NERF!
I battled the snuggy-bear thing in the arena, fully warded 'brycer' with 39 ab and 73 ac (including IE), the dragon was unwarded entirely and we both got to near death 3 times on a row. 2 of these times the dragon won. I call overpowered.

Druids and Palemasters are still broken.
Currently playing: Seth Xylo

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:06 pm

Holly sword is basicly only reason why anyone plays paladin over 4 level dip...Its basicly only reason why they are even usable as main class in PVP....They are good for only one thing...as mage killers..
This is not true at all. Paladins are extremely powerful when fully buffed, holy sword or not. High AC, high AB, high damage, high saves, good hp. A good paladin will kill a mage no matter what, holy sword only makes it ten times easier to do this. Holy sword also allows them to beat mundane builds. Since it triggers on every hit, eventually you will lose all your buffs. Fighting without buffs mean you lose.

Image

This is the spell that you are trying to defend. Does this look fair to you?
And that cry at EDK and Druid...do you realize that both are basicly PVE only thing?
EDK is used in PVE just to kill bosses....those bosses who tear apart every other summon in 2 rounds...
In PVP, as you said, is realy easy to, 1) ignor them (if you have any reasonable AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them...
Not sure if you're trolling me at this point but everything you just said is also incorrect. Using EDK in PvE is a complete waste. Why would you do this? Your summons are good enough to kill anything that's not lvl 30 content. EDK won't help you there either, mind you. Bosses do not tear apart summons in two rounds either, this is entirely false. You cannot ignore an EDK in PvP either. They will absolutely destroy you if you try this ( unless you are a tank build ). Ignoring a 50ish ab summon that crits for over 100 damage. Really?
AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them..
Please read my post again.
Druid...welll...druids are just tanky PVE gods....you can solo clear endgame dungeons with it...you can farm loverdark in 19-21 level solo...
But in PVP they are...ehhh....lets say...no AB, and damage....summons can be dissmissed....yeah...they are tanky but thats all...they can do anything to you and you can just ignor them...you will not kill them solo..but neither will they....
If there is a character who cannot die, to anything at all, that character's class needs to be nerfed. Especially if that build is not entirely based on being tanky. A CON barbarian palemaster with literally 0 offense doesn't get as tanky as a druid. That said, you cannot 'ignore' druids. I've seen Tua chase down drow mages. They tried to 'ignore' her by running away. They died.
PS: Nearly forgot...druids have low saves so you can moust likely destroy them with spells...
???

I literally just went into PGCC, leveled up my WIS, took 30 druid and random feats and got these 'low' saves:

Image

Image

CptJonas
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Re: Nerf this

Post by CptJonas » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:12 pm

Cerk Evermoore wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:58 pm
CptJonas wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:28 pm
Well....

1. Holly sword is basicly only reason why anyone plays paladin over 4 level dip...Its basicly only reason why they are even usable as main class in PVP....They are good for only one thing...as mage killers..

2. And that cry at EDK and Druid...do you realize that both are basicly PVE only thing?
EDK is used in PVE just to kill bosses....those bosses who tear apart every other summon in 2 rounds...
In PVP, as you said, is realy easy to, 1) ignor them (if you have any reasonable AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them...

3. Druid...welll...druids are just tanky PVE gods....you can solo clear endgame dungeons with it...you can farm loverdark in 19-21 level solo...
But in PVP they are...ehhh....lets say...no AB, and damage....summons can be dissmissed....yeah...they are tanky but thats all...they can do anything to you and you can just ignor them...you will not kill them solo..but neither will they....

PS: Nearly forgot...druids have low saves so you can moust likely destroy them with spells...

I'll handle these point form because it makes it easier.

1. Paladins can easily get massive amounts of AC making them incredibly anti-melee also. Thinking paladins are /only/ good as a mage killer is incorrect. They just do not deal as much damage to soft targets as weapon masters, to equate that to being useless is just plain wrong.

2. I kill people with my EDK all the time including top tier melee players. Go fight a competent caster with EDK as a melee. Go fight someone with EDK without access to UMD. Ever been pinned to a wall by a EDK? Ever been knocked down by an EDK? These things are literally the golden standard in power.

3. A druid can definitely kill you. It isn't going to run you down like a hasted weaponmaster but once again, access to EDK provides all the damage a character needs to ruin your day.


Just because you can dispel EDK doesn't mean it is useless. It just means the summoner needs to actually think instead of mindlessly dropping EDK the first 10 seconds in the fight against a caster cleric.
Well...

1) Paladins gets same AC as everyone, or even less if you take into consideration if you use them as dip...and as I said....we are speaking about holly sword...so about high level paladin...

2) I dont belive....I call it bull****.....
And if you dont have umd in PVP you are doing something wrong...thats first point....
What are you missing is that in game are books what you can use for banishmet even withow umd...
So yeah...you can kill melle player with EDK...bad melle player..or someone with bad build...or both...

3) My comment to EDK you have...
To druid...you have like what? 3-4 APR...with AB around 40...and damage around 30.....so...agains reasonable build (50+ ac) you will hit him 1 time out off 2...thats maybe what? 60 DPS....thats nothing...you can basicly outheal that....
Only thing what have AB and damage reasonable is druids companion bear with beries and buffed...But that thing is total paper....

CptJonas
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Re: Nerf this

Post by CptJonas » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:26 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:06 pm
Holly sword is basicly only reason why anyone plays paladin over 4 level dip...Its basicly only reason why they are even usable as main class in PVP....They are good for only one thing...as mage killers..
This is not true at all. Paladins are extremely powerful when fully buffed, holy sword or not. High AC, high AB, high damage, high saves, good hp. A good paladin will kill a mage no matter what, holy sword only makes it ten times easier to do this. Holy sword also allows them to beat mundane builds. Since it triggers on every hit, eventually you will lose all your buffs. Fighting without buffs mean you lose.

Image

This is the spell that you are trying to defend. Does this look fair to you?
And that cry at EDK and Druid...do you realize that both are basicly PVE only thing?
EDK is used in PVE just to kill bosses....those bosses who tear apart every other summon in 2 rounds...
In PVP, as you said, is realy easy to, 1) ignor them (if you have any reasonable AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them...
Not sure if you're trolling me at this point but everything you just said is also incorrect. Using EDK in PvE is a complete waste. Why would you do this? Your summons are good enough to kill anything that's not lvl 30 content. EDK won't help you there either, mind you. Bosses do not tear apart summons in two rounds either, this is entirely false. You cannot ignore an EDK in PvP either. They will absolutely destroy you if you try this ( unless you are a tank build ). Ignoring a 50ish ab summon that crits for over 100 damage. Really?
AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them..
Please read my post again.
Druid...welll...druids are just tanky PVE gods....you can solo clear endgame dungeons with it...you can farm loverdark in 19-21 level solo...
But in PVP they are...ehhh....lets say...no AB, and damage....summons can be dissmissed....yeah...they are tanky but thats all...they can do anything to you and you can just ignor them...you will not kill them solo..but neither will they....
If there is a character who cannot die, to anything at all, that character's class needs to be nerfed. Especially if that build is not entirely based on being tanky. A CON barbarian palemaster with literally 0 offense doesn't get as tanky as a druid. That said, you cannot 'ignore' druids. I've seen Tua chase down drow mages. They tried to 'ignore' her by running away. They died.
PS: Nearly forgot...druids have low saves so you can moust likely destroy them with spells...
???

I literally just went into PGCC, leveled up my WIS, took 30 druid and random feats and got these 'low' saves:

Image

Image
I will say to all of this one thing....you have low standards...
You want nerf something whats good...just to make other bad classes and builds to be able to compete with it....
What about create better builds before you go into PVP vs PVP builds? Or you could call for buff to other classes.....no...you cant compete with cookie cutter build vs PVP build? That must call for nerf! I dont have words...

BTW....those saves...even with spellcraft....only good save I see there is fort....and its still not great....great saves are 40+....
Even that fort isnt great....you still have like 20-25% chance to die to kill spells.....

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MajorArcana
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Re: Nerf this

Post by MajorArcana » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:33 pm

CptJonas wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:28 pm
And that cry at EDK and Druid...do you realize that both are basicly PVE only thing?
EDK is used in PVE just to kill bosses....those bosses who tear apart every other summon in 2 rounds...
In PVP, as you said, is realy easy to, 1) ignor them (if you have any reasonable AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them...

Druid...welll...druids are just tanky PVE gods....you can solo clear endgame dungeons with it...you can farm loverdark in 19-21 level solo...
But in PVP they are...ehhh....lets say...no AB, and damage....summons can be dissmissed....yeah...they are tanky but thats all...they can do anything to you and you can just ignor them...you will not kill them solo..but neither will they....

PS: Nearly forgot...druids have low saves so you can moust likely destroy them with spells...
Quoting these in particular since they're most pertinent to a few counterpoints.

1) EDK is one of the first go-to spells for any epic conj caster in PvP. The first thing it does is breach a person, then it creates a fear aura. Even (or especially, rather) those who aren't well versed in PvP mechanics can use an EDK and often times buy enough time to run, or miraculously come out on top - and, to top it off, these dragons are almost never warded.

The point being made, despite the ease of preventing them from being summoned, or resorting to a WoF, the majority of the Arelith playerbase are not aware of how to properly counter an EDK. A lot of people will try to kill the dragon, rather than the person who summoned it. Or they'll panic, and freeze up.

2) Totems are really good at solo grinding throughout pretty much all Arelith dungeons, but they're also fairly deadly in PvP from what I've observed. Totem Druids are ridiculously tanky individuals that do fair very well in fights given they are fully buffed (which, they always should be anyway) with a swarm of animals at their command and call. Not to mention that the only meta druid at present is pure - which grants monolithic elemental shape.

To put it in perspective, a druid gets 4 summons (1 elemental swarm of 3 creatures, and 1 animal companion). The druid can fully buff those, and itself, with all the wardings required to face off in PvP; primarily Spell Resistance which means that they will be immune to most spells- even WoF/Dismissal. You would need to Breach/Mord's the creatures, then attempt to dismiss them, which eats up two rounds. In that time, assuming they have bears, they can crit for over a hundred damage every time they attack (which is approximately 4 APR, 5 if hasted). THEN on top of that, the druid themselves can shape into a 70 AC tank to be untouchable while their animals do the bulk of the work.

They can, and absolutely will, ruin your day if you decide to pick a fight with one. They're not just a PvE class, it's just that you're going to be hard-pressed to find a druid who is both capable and willing to put someone into the ground at a moment's notice due to most druids embodying a pacifist stereotype.

CptJonas
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Re: Nerf this

Post by CptJonas » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:42 pm

MajorArcana wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:33 pm
CptJonas wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:28 pm
And that cry at EDK and Druid...do you realize that both are basicly PVE only thing?
EDK is used in PVE just to kill bosses....those bosses who tear apart every other summon in 2 rounds...
In PVP, as you said, is realy easy to, 1) ignor them (if you have any reasonable AC), 2) Puff them out with dispel, 3) dissmis them or prevent even cast of them...

Druid...welll...druids are just tanky PVE gods....you can solo clear endgame dungeons with it...you can farm loverdark in 19-21 level solo...
But in PVP they are...ehhh....lets say...no AB, and damage....summons can be dissmissed....yeah...they are tanky but thats all...they can do anything to you and you can just ignor them...you will not kill them solo..but neither will they....

PS: Nearly forgot...druids have low saves so you can moust likely destroy them with spells...
Quoting these in particular since they're most pertinent to a few counterpoints.

1) EDK is one of the first go-to spells for any epic conj caster in PvP. The first thing it does is breach a person, then it creates a fear aura. Even (or especially, rather) those who aren't well versed in PvP mechanics can use an EDK and often times buy enough time to run, or miraculously come out on top - and, to top it off, these dragons are almost never warded.

The point being made, despite the ease of preventing them from being summoned, or resorting to a WoF, the majority of the Arelith playerbase are not aware of how to properly counter an EDK. A lot of people will try to kill the dragon, rather than the person who summoned it. Or they'll panic, and freeze up.

2) Totems are really good at solo grinding throughout pretty much all Arelith dungeons, but they're also fairly deadly in PvP from what I've observed. Totem Druids are ridiculously tanky individuals that do fair very well in fights given they are fully buffed (which, they always should be anyway) with a swarm of animals at their command and call. Not to mention that the only meta druid at present is pure - which grants monolithic elemental shape.

To put it in perspective, a druid gets 4 summons (1 elemental swarm of 3 creatures, and 1 animal companion). The druid can fully buff those, and itself, with all the wardings required to face off in PvP; primarily Spell Resistance which means that they will be immune to most spells- even WoF/Dismissal. You would need to Breach/Mord's the creatures, then attempt to dismiss them, which eats up two rounds. In that time, assuming they have bears, they can crit for over a hundred damage every time they attack (which is approximately 4 APR, 5 if hasted). THEN on top of that, the druid themselves can shape into a 70 AC tank to be untouchable while their animals do the bulk of the work.

They can, and absolutely will, ruin your day if you decide to pick a fight with one. They're not just a PvE class, it's just that you're going to be hard-pressed to find a druid who is both capable and willing to put someone into the ground at a moment's notice due to most druids embodying a pacifist stereotype.
To both points here....you cant balance game around bad players doing mistakes or not knowing how to deal with something...
You should balance around good players...bcs if you do it other wise....you will need to nerf all classes to the ground and there will still be people complaining when someone who focus on PVP will kill them....

Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Cerk Evermoore » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:52 pm

2) I dont belive....I call it bull****.....
And if you dont have umd in PVP you are doing something wrong...thats first point....
What are you missing is that in game are books what you can use for banishmet even withow umd...
So yeah...you can kill melle player with EDK...bad melle player..or someone with bad build...or both...

Alright you've got me. It was all a lie everyone. EDK, paladins and monolith shape druids are all the new standard of balance.

I find it funny you talk about /why nerf normal builds that are fine./ Then in the same post mention /If you don't build UMD you are doing it wrong./

You may be able to dispel a EDK. But guess what that caster is doing while you are using two casts on scrolls? Dispelling you and hitting you with a CC. Unless you are talking about your imaginary character who has 40+ saves in everything or else they're /terrible./

Tarkus gave you a really good post explaining himself, he even included pictures for you. Do not hijack this real balance thread with your made up theoretical bullcrap please. Don't continue the argument, just leave this thread.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:09 pm

It is a fact that EDK and druids are too strong, in general, and need to be changed. It's up to you to deny or accept this. I gave you the reasons why. Arelith is not a PvP server. It's main focus is roleplay. When it comes to both PvP and PvE, it needs to have a healthy and an enjoyable environment for everyone. Everyone. Not only for the ones you call 'good players'. This is if you want people to play here, in the first place.

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-XXX-
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Re: Nerf this

Post by -XXX- » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:13 pm

For the record

on hit: breach > on hit: dispel


p.s.: if you think EDK is so OP, why not play a caster with EDK?

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:25 pm

-XXX- wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:13 pm
For the record

on hit: breach > on hit: dispel


p.s.: if you think EDK is so OP, why not play a caster with EDK?
No. Dispel will eventually, if not right away, dispel everything from a character. It doesn't matter what class you are to begin with. There are many spells that are not affected by breach, however. Crucial spells like haste, barskin, death ward, displacement, etc. Personally, I think the dispel function should be removed entirely, but I doubt that is going to fly. Another suggestion I would make is to remove the dispel function entirely, raise the SR some and switch the 1d6 divine damage vs evil to magic damage vs evil.

As for EDK, the point I'm trying to make is that it's easily accessible to any caster. It's a 'free win' button against casual players. You drop it and it goes berserk, 80 percent of the time it will single handedly win you a fight. It's the smite-paladin level of no-brainer. No one should be given a free win off of having something, be it an epic feat or not, and I see this happen very often.

CptJonas
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Re: Nerf this

Post by CptJonas » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:47 pm

Tarkus the dog wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:09 pm
It is a fact that EDK and druids are too strong, in general, and need to be changed. It's up to you to deny or accept this. I gave you the reasons why. Arelith is not a PvP server. It's main focus is roleplay. When it comes to both PvP and PvE, it needs to have a healthy and an enjoyable environment for everyone. Everyone. Not only for the ones you call 'good players'. This is if you want people to play here, in the first place.
Are we living in comunism? Should we balance around weak? If someone is working hard on himself spends hours and hours creating build, testing it, leveling up build what could be extremly hard to level up, just to be good...Shouldnt he stomp on those who just take cookie cutter brycer and never trained or tryed to improve themself.???

I will say you this...noone force you to RP champions, great fighters, Warmage, or other stuff like this...You can allways be pacifist, merchant, or something....But if you want to RP those...you should work on yourself to be actualy good player...to be strong...

If you dont put efort into it...dont expect to win PVP agains someone who did....

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Aftond
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Aftond » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:53 pm

CptJonas wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:47 pm
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:09 pm
It is a fact that EDK and druids are too strong, in general, and need to be changed. It's up to you to deny or accept this. I gave you the reasons why. Arelith is not a PvP server. It's main focus is roleplay. When it comes to both PvP and PvE, it needs to have a healthy and an enjoyable environment for everyone. Everyone. Not only for the ones you call 'good players'. This is if you want people to play here, in the first place.
Are we living in comunism? Should we balance around weak? If someone is working hard on himself spends hours and hours creating build, testing it, leveling up build what could be extremly hard to level up, just to be good...Shouldnt he stomp on those who just take cookie cutter brycer and never trained or tryed to improve themself.???

I will say you this...noone force you to RP champions, great fighters, Warmage, or other stuff like this...You can allways be pacifist, merchant, or something....But if you want to RP those...you should work on yourself to be actualy good player...to be strong...

If you dont put efort into it...dont expect to win PVP agains someone who did....


Ah yes, the hours of hours of theorycrafting how to pick 3-4 spell foci and then solo grinding said caster with no problem. The great effort and struggle that should award the epic EDK spell.
Last edited by Aftond on Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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-XXX-
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Re: Nerf this

Post by -XXX- » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:54 pm

Dispels are making an opposed CL check against the wards CL. The situation you are describing is not unlike KD vs. Discipline.
The argument you are making is essentially similar to "KD is OP when you don't have discipline"... well yes, that's how the game works.

EDK can be dealt with in PvP - just lower its SR with a breach/mord and WoF it away - any character with UMD can do this.
Also it's a summon with dumb AI and the same movement speed as your toon - don't fight it head on and you'll be fine.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:58 pm

CptJonas wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:47 pm
Tarkus the dog wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:09 pm
It is a fact that EDK and druids are too strong, in general, and need to be changed. It's up to you to deny or accept this. I gave you the reasons why. Arelith is not a PvP server. It's main focus is roleplay. When it comes to both PvP and PvE, it needs to have a healthy and an enjoyable environment for everyone. Everyone. Not only for the ones you call 'good players'. This is if you want people to play here, in the first place.
Are we living in comunism? Should we balance around weak? If someone is working hard on himself spends hours and hours creating build, testing it, leveling up build what could be extremly hard to level up, just to be good...Shouldnt he stomp on those who just take cookie cutter brycer and never trained or tryed to improve themself.???

I will say you this...noone force you to RP champions, great fighters, Warmage, or other stuff like this...You can allways be pacifist, merchant, or something....But if you want to RP those...you should work on yourself to be actualy good player...to be strong...

If you dont put efort into it...dont expect to win PVP agains someone who did....
I think you're playing in the wrong server if this is your mentality, and I really hope you are only one of the few who look at the game from this repugnant perspective. If anything, I thank you for proving my point.

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Aftond
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Aftond » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:58 pm

-XXX- wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:54 pm

EDK can be dealt with in PvP - just lower its SR with a breach/mord and WoF it away - any character with UMD can do this.
Also it's a summon with dumb AI and the same movement speed as your toon - don't fight it head on and you'll be fine.
Meanwhile, the mage casts 3-4 IGMS during your two rounds of having to deal with a dragon that will butcher you. Death.

JubJub
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Re: Nerf this

Post by JubJub » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:06 pm

The key to holy sword is "On Hit", with all the ways classes can get 60+ac hitting isn't always so easy. As pointed out paladins are tough if they have enough time to buff and prepare which in my experience with pvp is rare.

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-XXX-
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Re: Nerf this

Post by -XXX- » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:10 pm

Aftond wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:58 pm
-XXX- wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:54 pm

EDK can be dealt with in PvP - just lower its SR with a breach/mord and WoF it away - any character with UMD can do this.
Also it's a summon with dumb AI and the same movement speed as your toon - don't fight it head on and you'll be fine.
Meanwhile, the mage casts 3-4 IGMS during your two rounds of having to deal with a dragon that will butcher you. Death.
That literally never happened to me.

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Tarkus the dog
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Tarkus the dog » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:10 pm

JubJub wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:06 pm
The key to holy sword is "On Hit", with all the ways classes can get 60+ac hitting isn't always so easy. As pointed out paladins are tough if they have enough time to buff and prepare which in my experience with pvp is rare.
Paladins can get up to 55 AB. Buffing up isn't an issue either, divine shield allows you to tank up - or you can easily run and buff.

EDIT: If this is too much for you to handle, do the following:

Drink a haste potion, cast holy sword, time stop, click on your target - It will likely lose every single buff.

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Re: Nerf this

Post by Babylon System is the Vampire » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:15 pm

While I do think paladins are a strong class (they always have been, really) I don't think its the holy sword tweaks that make it so. Its good for one thing, killing clerics. Which is fine, every class should have their weaknesses. You need to hit a wizard to dispel it, and if you are hitting a wizard with a pally they were dead anyways, dispels maybe just sped it up by half a round.

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Durvayas
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Durvayas » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:16 pm

Actually, being as we're an RP server and we've had noticable power creep for YEARS to the point where "powerbuild and minmax or go home" has become a mantra, with players becoming increasingly obsessed with PvP as the Be-all-end-all of RP conflict. I'm in agreement that EDK needs a nerf. A lot of things need a nerf, across the board, so that the content on the server can then be nerfed, and the power creep can crawl in reverse for once, rather than the slow but steady arms race of a buff here, a buff there, a buff to counter this buff, and so on and so forth.

The focus on building for PvP, where all builds require UMD and 35+ saves in all catagories to pass muster, is not healthy for an environment that purports to be about roleplay.
Should player skill have some influence on victory? of course; But I can literally build any, ANY caster build, grab EDK and be assured to win the vast majority of engagements by clicking a button. I don't have to do much else. An EDK dragon is just as effective as having a lvl 30 WM in your pocket in the majority of instances. All I need to do is throw mords at you and some CC, and you're too busy swinging on the dragon, OR, ignoring it, probably getting KDed, and chewed to pieces.

Arelith should not be designed and balanced around five or six builds. Not for PvP, not for PvE. Variety, and more importantly, the viability of that variety, is paramount. The team should be working to nerf overpowered things so that the number of viable builds can increase, rather than the server condensing into narrower and narrower sets of 'viable' builds, as it has been for years.
Plays: Durvayas(deleted), Marco(deleted), Hounynrae(NPC), Sinithra Auvry'ndal(rolled), Rauvlin Barrith(Active), Madeline Clavelle(Shelved)

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Aftond
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Re: Nerf this

Post by Aftond » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:20 pm

-XXX- wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:10 pm
Aftond wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:58 pm
-XXX- wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:54 pm

EDK can be dealt with in PvP - just lower its SR with a breach/mord and WoF it away - any character with UMD can do this.
Also it's a summon with dumb AI and the same movement speed as your toon - don't fight it head on and you'll be fine.
Meanwhile, the mage casts 3-4 IGMS during your two rounds of having to deal with a dragon that will butcher you. Death.
That literally never happened to me.
I'm glad every mage you've ever fought got paralyzed into inaction after summoning their edk. I wish I had the same experience!

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