While chest logging, dungeon logging and related moves are explicitly FORBIDDEN TECHNIQUES - its happening, its real, and while it may be a minority of people doing it - its also obscenely disruptive. Reporting the activity to the DM is, from my experience, looked into and done with the best of their abilities being mortal agencies...
That said I think the act could essentially be banished from the server by doing a few simple things:
I) Make it so you can't log out in any dungeon (probably tagged like [teleport] or something) that possesses the chance for Adamantine or possesses 'artifact chests'. If you log out in one of these dungeons it takes you back to your spawn point on that server.
II) Touch these dungeons up to make it so you actually have to complete them to do them.
Hitting levers, having to kill demi-bosses, and other things. There are a good few dungeons that have HUGE vulnerabilities to them in that you can just run passed everything invisible and just be able to snipe the boss and get all the treasure w/ minimal risk. Instead these things should be time sinks that require effort or team work.
III) Make treasure rooms or ore not spawn until certain criteria are met; killing the boss - collecting the seven mystical dragon Pufferfish.
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I personally don't have anything against people solo-ing content. It's possible, sometimes necessary, and is also fun to challenge yourself. But getting to the boss room, logging out, and then logging back in to proceed is a gamey exploit that should probably just be made impossible and invis-running all of the treasure rooms on the server is just a stupid thing that hardly makes sense and takes so little effort that it creates a bunch of weird disparities in the in-game economy.
pls fix somehow
Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Well...
1) invis running isnt done bcs you dont want to chalenge yourself with solo content...its done bcs you can easily kill all mobs up to boss withow any danger, but its boring and not rewarding....And it doesnt make RP sense...Why would my Epic wizzard (and epic characters are basicly demigod lvl of power) fight thro all those pesky trolls which will die when he just cast one spell...when he can just move past them to his goal?
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
PS: About punishing.....What can I do when like 6/10 times I use lense to go on another place to another server...I end up in place where I was on other server when I leaved him....I know its more like post to bug forum...but...I Ended at end of some dungeons by mistake many times like this...So its to this topic aswell...
1) invis running isnt done bcs you dont want to chalenge yourself with solo content...its done bcs you can easily kill all mobs up to boss withow any danger, but its boring and not rewarding....And it doesnt make RP sense...Why would my Epic wizzard (and epic characters are basicly demigod lvl of power) fight thro all those pesky trolls which will die when he just cast one spell...when he can just move past them to his goal?
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
PS: About punishing.....What can I do when like 6/10 times I use lense to go on another place to another server...I end up in place where I was on other server when I leaved him....I know its more like post to bug forum...but...I Ended at end of some dungeons by mistake many times like this...So its to this topic aswell...
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Going to respond just on this one cause I dont have a solid opinion on the rest of what is said. People crash pretty often these days. I can confidently say that most players crash every hour at average. Imagine you finally reach boss screen and crash or you manage to finally kill the boss and crash just as you're about to mine that addy. Sounds really frustrating to me. Bad idea.Red Ropes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:03 pmMake it so you can't log out in any dungeon (probably tagged like [teleport] or something) that possesses the chance for Adamantine or possesses 'artifact chests'. If you log out in one of these dungeons it takes you back to your spawn point on that server.
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
That is cheating and is punished thoCptJonas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 pm2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
“I’m—I’m——” he began muttering to himself, but could not finish what he was about to say. His name had disappeared completely. “I’m in the Valley of the Beasts,” he repeated in place of what he sought but could not find.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
1) It makes total IC sense to do that, I think the argument here is risk / reward and how it affects the economy.CptJonas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 pmWell...
1) invis running isnt done bcs you dont want to chalenge yourself with solo content...its done bcs you can easily kill all mobs up to boss withow any danger, but its boring and not rewarding....And it doesnt make RP sense...Why would my Epic wizzard (and epic characters are basicly demigod lvl of power) fight thro all those pesky trolls which will die when he just cast one spell...when he can just move past them to his goal?
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
PS: About punishing.....What can I do when like 6/10 times I use lense to go on another place to another server...I end up in place where I was on other server when I leaved him....I know its more like post to bug forum...but...I Ended at end of some dungeons by mistake many times like this...So its to this topic aswell...
Do you want to award players with the best drops in the game with no risk? Probably not.
Do you want to award players disproportionately who do not roleplay or adventure, but rather log in and out and game the systems? Probably not.
2) Runes respawn, there's no justification for logging in on the chests and DM's can (and do), as they should, punish you for it. Logging in and out for any sort of gain is bad.
The bigger problem here is when you do that and someone is doing the dungeon 'properly' or 'kinda properly' (see: 1), it deprives them of the loot which is distinctly unfair.
I'd like a system in which kills gained within all end dungeons add up into a pool, which affects the value of loot (Chests, ores and gems) that you get at the end - which additionally only spawns when the end boss is beaten. Giving you incentive to fight encounters and not speed clear.
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
This is cheating. We will punish you if we catch you doing this.CptJonas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 pm
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
There's so many wrong things with this post I don't know where to begin.CptJonas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 pmWell...
1) invis running isnt done bcs you dont want to chalenge yourself with solo content...its done bcs you can easily kill all mobs up to boss withow any danger, but its boring and not rewarding....And it doesnt make RP sense...Why would my Epic wizzard (and epic characters are basicly demigod lvl of power) fight thro all those pesky trolls which will die when he just cast one spell...when he can just move past them to his goal?
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
PS: About punishing.....What can I do when like 6/10 times I use lense to go on another place to another server...I end up in place where I was on other server when I leaved him....I know its more like post to bug forum...but...I Ended at end of some dungeons by mistake many times like this...So its to this topic aswell...
Invis running IS done to rush to the big award, you MAY or not do it, but others certainly have done it, and even these monsters may not be challenging, they're still the guardians of the treasure, it's part of how the game is designed, you need to defeat them and then earn it.
Epic characters are NOT demigods tier in Arelith, that may be the case in PnP but in Arelith it has been considered that an epic character is at around level 12 in PnP for lore power.
Logging at boss room IS cheating, it IS a rule break. You're not saving time, you're cheating players that fight their way through it, at zero effort. There is no conceivable way you can twist this not to be cheating.
There's no way to make dungeons completely solo proof without making it ridiculous. This isn't WoW or some other MMO where you can queue and find a party momentarily, it's a PW with RP in mind. It's not ideal that some characters can solo or duo epic dungeons, but it's a small necessary sacrifice in design.
The bug you mention is easily avoidable by using the same login, and you can set a login as default and never have to "accidently" abuse it.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Which part of that?DM Marduk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:16 pmThis is cheating. We will punish you if we catch you doing this.CptJonas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 pm
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
"About unloging in boss room" Yeah...I know that...
"timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours" Is this too?
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Good heavens Miss Sakamoto
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Last edited by Good heavens Miss Sakamoto on Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
I'm in full agreement. People are getting EnHaNcEd at such a frequency that this would drive a couple people I know (who crash on average every 30-45 minutes) off of the server entirely because they'd be unable to dungeon in high level content at all.Astral wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:55 pmGoing to respond just on this one cause I dont have a solid opinion on the rest of what is said. People crash pretty often these days. I can confidently say that most players crash every hour at average. Imagine you finally reach boss screen and crash or you manage to finally kill the boss and crash just as you're about to mine that addy. Sounds really frustrating to me. Bad idea.Red Ropes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:03 pmMake it so you can't log out in any dungeon (probably tagged like [teleport] or something) that possesses the chance for Adamantine or possesses 'artifact chests'. If you log out in one of these dungeons it takes you back to your spawn point on that server.
Additionally. Such a script would encourage people to go through a dungeon, and then unplug their ethernet cable to teleport back to town for free. Or if they encounter a hostile party, they could log out to escape them, and teleport back to safety and easily blame it on a crash.
Artefact farming and runic farming(being done legitimately or not) is not something that we can script away. People are going to ceaselessly farm these dungeons no matter what is done to make the system less rewarding for that kind of behavior. Its simple fact that people who grind are going to grind, and those with the most time are going to get the most resources. While the intent behind threads like this is good, inevitably, the people who are punished the most by changes like those proposed are not the people exibiting the undesirable behavior, but are instead the people who have less time or play more casually.
Johnny-rungrind is not going to be affected by your proposals. He's going to be in and out of any given dungeon in 10 minutes due to how he gets to the boss room. Either sprinting, not emoting, and fully warded, or by logging in elsewhere in the dungeon.
Tommy-averageman is going to come along with a party, RP, take the dungeon at a liesurely stroll while emoting, crash, and get screwed by your suggestions because his group is doing the dungeon in 30 minutes or more.
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Well...Cortex wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:18 pmThere's so many wrong things with this post I don't know where to begin.CptJonas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 pmWell...
1) invis running isnt done bcs you dont want to chalenge yourself with solo content...its done bcs you can easily kill all mobs up to boss withow any danger, but its boring and not rewarding....And it doesnt make RP sense...Why would my Epic wizzard (and epic characters are basicly demigod lvl of power) fight thro all those pesky trolls which will die when he just cast one spell...when he can just move past them to his goal?
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
PS: About punishing.....What can I do when like 6/10 times I use lense to go on another place to another server...I end up in place where I was on other server when I leaved him....I know its more like post to bug forum...but...I Ended at end of some dungeons by mistake many times like this...So its to this topic aswell...
Invis running IS done to rush to the big award, you MAY or not do it, but others certainly have done it, and even these monsters may not be challenging, they're still the guardians of the treasure, it's part of how the game is designed, you need to defeat them and then earn it.
Epic characters are NOT demigods tier in Arelith, that may be the case in PnP but in Arelith it has been considered that an epic character is at around level 12 in PnP for lore power.
Logging at boss room IS cheating, it IS a rule break. You're not saving time, you're cheating players that fight their way through it, at zero effort. There is no conceivable way you can twist this not to be cheating.
There's no way to make dungeons completely solo proof without making it ridiculous. This isn't WoW or some other MMO where you can queue and find a party momentarily, it's a PW with RP in mind. It's not ideal that some characters can solo or duo epic dungeons, but it's a small necessary sacrifice in design.
The bug you mention is easily avoidable by using the same login, and you can set a login as default and never have to "accidently" abuse it.
"you need to defeat them and then earn it" Why? Is my character idiot or why would he waiste his time?
"character is at around level 12 in PnP" Realy? Your 12lvl character can summon balors and dragons, stop time, and clear entire planes like baator withow any group member? Solo kill Dragons and higher demons?
"Logging at boss room IS cheating, it IS a rule break. You're not saving time, you're cheating players that fight their way through it, at zero effort. There is no conceivable way you can twist this not to be cheating"
Well...I said that much myself....I was more talking about ways to improve system so this wouldnt be a thing....
"There's no way to make dungeons completely solo proof without making it ridiculous. This isn't WoW or some other MMO where you can queue and find a party momentarily, it's a PW with RP in mind. It's not ideal that some characters can solo or duo epic dungeons, but it's a small necessary sacrifice in design"
There is way....simply nerf summons to the ground...make them atleast at 60% of fighter of same level...Every class whats OP in PVE is OP bcs of its summon.....(Btw...I am plaing wizard right now...I should know)
"The bug you mention is easily avoidable by using the same login, and you can set a login as default and never have to "accidently" abuse it."
First..I dont like how you are talking like I am some sort of cheater....
And for your info....I have my login set as default since enhance edition....and its still hapening to me....all the time...
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Good heavens Miss Sakamoto
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
The correct answer is twofold:
First, make the dungeons more difficult to run through while invisible. This will require some module changes, specifically to a few of the worst dungeons that have a direct "shortcut" route to the boss room. Some of these dungeons may need to have some of their other encounters rethought to make actually fighting your way through less of a pain though. I can assemble a list without too much trouble.
Accompany this with an appropriate beef-up of bosses, and probably a nerf in the DR numbers of some of the one shot wonder summons. Right now, a couple of them are basically 1 free PvE win, because the module just doesn't have creatures that deal well with their DR.
Second, set up a script alert for anyone logging into a dungeon any time they do so more than 5min after logging out in the dungeon. Do not automatically punish them, but flag it so that DMs can investigate later. This should 1: avoid catching people who crash and log back in, since this is usually a short window between log out and log in, and 2: leave the final decision on whether a rule has been broken up to a thinking human being. If the DMs determine that there is some sort of chest/boss room logging going on, there should be a harsh penalty associated with it. This penalty needs to be sufficient to thoroughly discourage the behavior. I would tentatively suggest zeroing out a player's inventory and bank account whenever they are caught doing this, but there are probably other measures that can be taken as well.
First, make the dungeons more difficult to run through while invisible. This will require some module changes, specifically to a few of the worst dungeons that have a direct "shortcut" route to the boss room. Some of these dungeons may need to have some of their other encounters rethought to make actually fighting your way through less of a pain though. I can assemble a list without too much trouble.
Accompany this with an appropriate beef-up of bosses, and probably a nerf in the DR numbers of some of the one shot wonder summons. Right now, a couple of them are basically 1 free PvE win, because the module just doesn't have creatures that deal well with their DR.
Second, set up a script alert for anyone logging into a dungeon any time they do so more than 5min after logging out in the dungeon. Do not automatically punish them, but flag it so that DMs can investigate later. This should 1: avoid catching people who crash and log back in, since this is usually a short window between log out and log in, and 2: leave the final decision on whether a rule has been broken up to a thinking human being. If the DMs determine that there is some sort of chest/boss room logging going on, there should be a harsh penalty associated with it. This penalty needs to be sufficient to thoroughly discourage the behavior. I would tentatively suggest zeroing out a player's inventory and bank account whenever they are caught doing this, but there are probably other measures that can be taken as well.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
The logging issue aside (since it's been addressed), I think that the layout of the dungeons containing runic chests could use an overhaul.
I counted 5 runic chests on the Surface server and 9 runic chests on the C&P server. There might be more that I don't know of, but that's not the point - the point is that players seem to be continually grinding only about 4 of them.
This would suggest that looting those is more efficient - and I concur; stealing stuff from Abazuur is unproportionally more "convenient" and faster than robbing Sillan and Bargal.
Furthermore, I don't think that this is an issue of difficulty. PvE content tends to be quite binary in this regard - you have players for whom the content is straight up prohibitive on one hand ,and players who can overcome it consistently with little to no effort on the other hand.
I mention this, because IMO rising the overall difficulty of the runic dungeons would have been the wrong call as it would only widen the gap between the two aforementioned player categories.
What sets apart the "more popular" dungeons from the less frequented ones is their layout and the walking distance a character needs to cross from the nearest portal to the runic chest.
Imagine removing all the spawns to measure the time needed to just walk through the Manor of Mourn. Then imagine doing the same for the RDI for comparison.
Both of these dungeons follow a different design philosophy. I won't comment on which one is better but rather I'd like to point out that having a more consistent design philosophy across all the dungeons with runic chests might address many issues related to the topic.
I counted 5 runic chests on the Surface server and 9 runic chests on the C&P server. There might be more that I don't know of, but that's not the point - the point is that players seem to be continually grinding only about 4 of them.
This would suggest that looting those is more efficient - and I concur; stealing stuff from Abazuur is unproportionally more "convenient" and faster than robbing Sillan and Bargal.
Furthermore, I don't think that this is an issue of difficulty. PvE content tends to be quite binary in this regard - you have players for whom the content is straight up prohibitive on one hand ,and players who can overcome it consistently with little to no effort on the other hand.
I mention this, because IMO rising the overall difficulty of the runic dungeons would have been the wrong call as it would only widen the gap between the two aforementioned player categories.
What sets apart the "more popular" dungeons from the less frequented ones is their layout and the walking distance a character needs to cross from the nearest portal to the runic chest.
Imagine removing all the spawns to measure the time needed to just walk through the Manor of Mourn. Then imagine doing the same for the RDI for comparison.
Both of these dungeons follow a different design philosophy. I won't comment on which one is better but rather I'd like to point out that having a more consistent design philosophy across all the dungeons with runic chests might address many issues related to the topic.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
I really like this idea. Not only would it prevent people from just waltzing through dungeons invisible and looting at the end, but it would also make the side paths appealing. As someone who really loves to explore and see what's down side paths, I'm often really disappointed when going somewhere new with a group, and having to run down the main path immediately because everyone is just after the loot at the end. A system that actually encouraged exploring the whole dungeon by improving the boss room loot would be fantastic, from my point of view.Sockss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:13 pmI'd like a system in which kills gained within all end dungeons add up into a pool, which affects the value of loot (Chests, ores and gems) that you get at the end - which additionally only spawns when the end boss is beaten. Giving you incentive to fight encounters and not speed clear.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
As much as this idea might seem flavorful, it'd only incentivize players to circlegrind different dungeons (like Avernus with its continually respawning encounters for example) as the dungeons tend to vary both in the frequency of spawns as much as in their size.
And while this could be streamlined to support the idea, ultimately encounter variety would suffer as you'd inevitably end up with the same set of encounters varying only with their skin.
Furthermore, there is also a certain "gambling" variance aspect to the runic chests which many players seem to enjoy.
Another thing to consider with regards to dungeon design is the resource concentration - some dungeons contain not only runic chests, but also adamantine veins positioned right next to those.
So in essence, you get to "double dip" by completing certain dungeons, but not others. This is yet another reason why players opt to excessively grind some dungeons while disregarding the other potentially viable PvE venues.
And while this could be streamlined to support the idea, ultimately encounter variety would suffer as you'd inevitably end up with the same set of encounters varying only with their skin.
Furthermore, there is also a certain "gambling" variance aspect to the runic chests which many players seem to enjoy.
Another thing to consider with regards to dungeon design is the resource concentration - some dungeons contain not only runic chests, but also adamantine veins positioned right next to those.
So in essence, you get to "double dip" by completing certain dungeons, but not others. This is yet another reason why players opt to excessively grind some dungeons while disregarding the other potentially viable PvE venues.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
I've never liked the fact that you can stealth to the end of an epic dungeon and steal the loot but doing this regularly is considered to be poor behaviour. If it's mechanically possible to do, it should be allowed. It makes IC and OOC sense to do this in a world where it is possible. Stealth is a tool just like any other. Sockss' suggestion seems ideal to me. It's probably enough just to make the loot spawn only once the end boss is killed.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Currently rogue, and always will be a rogue character (Vale Kaelen, pure rogue).
I've not been to the game where runic farming and likewise been any focus for my characters, but often than not when i can't get a party together, stealthing is generally what my character is good at, i'll walk around pickpocketing npcs and fighting the few ones that manage to spot my character by luring them away, as i'm unable at all to fight the regular spawns (much less the bosses). This might be because i generally lean towards a roleplay build rather than minmaxing the combat ability of my character.
I don't think removing the ability to stealth through dungeons should be removed, however i certainly would suggest making it more difficult and hopefully fun (stealthing, should and is a mechanic in itself).
I would rather than per say locking a chest behind a magical creature, instead making the chest locked behind a high DC (for that leveled zone) which only dedicated (not pixies) characters can manage to unlock through their talents, while also giving the key to the boss as a alternative for regular clearers.
Characters whom then possess the means and the individual strength to take on the bosses will be encouraged to do so without completely stomping over the scout/rogue/thief like characters... however i would love to see dungeons having some counter to stealth or requiring a bit of planning.. like npcs carrying torches that'd generate a AOE that reveals you if you touch it, and/or have mage npcs cast see invisibility on themselves from time to time (and have invisibility purge spell).
As for the logout matter, can't you simply make it so that when you log-out in a dungeon, unless you login back in within a reasonable timeframe you get kicked out of the dungeon or to the start of it ?
If we're to build a system around making dungeons more fun, lets accommodate the different classes and their potential, a single pure classed rogue will normally not be able to clear a dungeon by fighting like per say a wizard/sorcerer whom can both use summons and generally the combat effectivity of spells, or per say a powerful fighter.
Easy to say, difficult to implement but generally dungeons should be flexible enough to accommodate the different classes, of course some dungeons should also force you to go in a group and require a broad spectrum of skills, so all in all a varied of dungeons as well in the end.
I've not been to the game where runic farming and likewise been any focus for my characters, but often than not when i can't get a party together, stealthing is generally what my character is good at, i'll walk around pickpocketing npcs and fighting the few ones that manage to spot my character by luring them away, as i'm unable at all to fight the regular spawns (much less the bosses). This might be because i generally lean towards a roleplay build rather than minmaxing the combat ability of my character.
I don't think removing the ability to stealth through dungeons should be removed, however i certainly would suggest making it more difficult and hopefully fun (stealthing, should and is a mechanic in itself).
I would rather than per say locking a chest behind a magical creature, instead making the chest locked behind a high DC (for that leveled zone) which only dedicated (not pixies) characters can manage to unlock through their talents, while also giving the key to the boss as a alternative for regular clearers.
Characters whom then possess the means and the individual strength to take on the bosses will be encouraged to do so without completely stomping over the scout/rogue/thief like characters... however i would love to see dungeons having some counter to stealth or requiring a bit of planning.. like npcs carrying torches that'd generate a AOE that reveals you if you touch it, and/or have mage npcs cast see invisibility on themselves from time to time (and have invisibility purge spell).
As for the logout matter, can't you simply make it so that when you log-out in a dungeon, unless you login back in within a reasonable timeframe you get kicked out of the dungeon or to the start of it ?
If we're to build a system around making dungeons more fun, lets accommodate the different classes and their potential, a single pure classed rogue will normally not be able to clear a dungeon by fighting like per say a wizard/sorcerer whom can both use summons and generally the combat effectivity of spells, or per say a powerful fighter.
Easy to say, difficult to implement but generally dungeons should be flexible enough to accommodate the different classes, of course some dungeons should also force you to go in a group and require a broad spectrum of skills, so all in all a varied of dungeons as well in the end.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Maybe we need a way to get ore that doesn’t involve fighting? It always seems out of place in a dungeon.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
At least if I try to farm a place for the chests I still have to do it, instead of logging by it. I went with a group once that could hit about 6 chests in a couple of hours Push, RDI, mourne etc. So with the right group things can be easily stormed, nothing wrong with that since they still had to take the time to fight through those places.
Stealthing is only bad when its the let this group fight so you can sneak ahead and grab the treasure type thing. Mourne manor was always bad for someone letting you get all the keys for the final area as they just went right to the final area, solod the boss, grabbed everything, and left.
Stealthing is only bad when its the let this group fight so you can sneak ahead and grab the treasure type thing. Mourne manor was always bad for someone letting you get all the keys for the final area as they just went right to the final area, solod the boss, grabbed everything, and left.
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Cerk Evermoore
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Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Random artifact chest locations. Plenty of dungeons should have chests but do not have them at the end.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
Solved.DM Marduk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:16 pmThis is cheating. We will punish you if we catch you doing this.CptJonas wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:50 pm
2) About unloging in boss room...Its done more bcs of trying to get runic materials before others....there is limited resourses....its not about trying to cheat game...to ignor some encounters...its just way to save time and dont get robbed by players who for example have timers on loot respawn and are afk circle runing all easy bosses every few hours in work for example...
It should be punished.....but more....system should be changed so people dont need to do this....
More epic dungeons with runic chests...and make those more chalenging..so you need atleast 4 players to do them... At minial dificulty of giants from lowerdark....
On a side note i do find it strange that there are no nodes like mithril mines or gold mines and sutch that factions can fight over to controle them.
Its rather wierd to have it all so randomly placed at the end of a dungeon here and there.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
And what could be fun aswel if said mines send out wagons of ore to *insert faction name HQ* so that it needs to be guarded and can get mugged by other players.
Something like this would send people out and about in the game world create conflict and generaly fun rp in my opinion.
More fun then swinging a sword at a rock any way.
Something like this would send people out and about in the game world create conflict and generaly fun rp in my opinion.
More fun then swinging a sword at a rock any way.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
No empty runic material chests would be nice. Little is more frustrating than defeating a hard, long dungeon.... actually unlocking and disabling the trap.. to find nothing for your efforts.
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Ayiesha Dahyarif
Ilphaeryl Xun'viir
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Reallylongunneededplayername
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:28 pm
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
I am actually in favor of removing ore out of dungeons and put them in mines, Without bosses but with spawn. Just make the location a bit hard, Like a mine with 3X gold ore, 2 Ada and five silver at Red dragon isle or A silver mine in the spires.
And yes, 2 Ada. I think Ada should be waaay easier than it currently is.
And yes, 2 Ada. I think Ada should be waaay easier than it currently is.
(>^.^)>) * * * *<(^.^<) <-Magic missles and shield spell.
Re: Dungeons - making them unattractive for chest and ore logging.
I was for once always of a mind that epic dungeons need to be "epic", as in a level 30 can't walk in there alone and turn it into a silent graveyard, With the various classes updates, the potential of the average character's fighting abilities are high, many classes get +5 weapons that pierce through DR, others get ridiculous damage (compared to the monsters in there), some get sustainability etc... I think dungeons need to be upped to match those changes.
Though it is certain that not all dungeons should be impossible to solo, there are times where you really can't build a party due to timezones, availability and other various reasons.
The best would be something like : Low - level tier dungeons, Mid - level tier dungeons, Low-mid epic tier dungeons, and high - epic tier dungeons.
The first two categories are fine right now, in my opinion, or if I'm wrong please correct me, but I've yet to see people complain about the low level content.
Low-mid epic tier dungeons should be, theoretically hard to solo for well, low-mid epic persons, yet possible to solo for high epic people, the rewards should be similar to what you find in say, Auril's temple, Very, very very very rarely high tier things, and very very very very often low tier things, with a slight chance of a medium tier thing. (A way to introduce the low epics to the runing system/ rune hunting. And a way to not make it too appealing that high levels would find it rewarding to circlegrind those dungeons repeatedly) And perhaps an extra low or mid tier rune straight on the boss's corpse if every party member is doing the same writ for that place for example.
Epic dungeons should be impossible to solo for even the most optimal of builds, and I would not mind for some places to be genuinely difficult and time consuming to beat. With naturally, adequate rewards that make up for the time spent. Perhaps two runic chests and a guaranteed mid-tier, probable high tier item directly from the boss's corpse.
While balance is important for the PvP aspect of the game, Bosses don't /have/ to be fair, nor do they have to be balanced, I'm all for more Paush scale bosses which encourage "Raids" rather than 30 secs mass bursty fights that end in a blink of an eye once every mage drops their dragons.
This would also serve in a way to build a certain seriousness about the environment we are in, as characters. You will see people joke about cutting Abazuur's head for the 750th time in a day, but never will you see someone foolishly go to solo Paush. There is a certain notoriety from such bosses, and in a world where everyone is capable of reaching level 30, it would make total sense for the world to have challenges very difficult to tackle for them.
Though it is certain that not all dungeons should be impossible to solo, there are times where you really can't build a party due to timezones, availability and other various reasons.
The best would be something like : Low - level tier dungeons, Mid - level tier dungeons, Low-mid epic tier dungeons, and high - epic tier dungeons.
The first two categories are fine right now, in my opinion, or if I'm wrong please correct me, but I've yet to see people complain about the low level content.
Low-mid epic tier dungeons should be, theoretically hard to solo for well, low-mid epic persons, yet possible to solo for high epic people, the rewards should be similar to what you find in say, Auril's temple, Very, very very very rarely high tier things, and very very very very often low tier things, with a slight chance of a medium tier thing. (A way to introduce the low epics to the runing system/ rune hunting. And a way to not make it too appealing that high levels would find it rewarding to circlegrind those dungeons repeatedly) And perhaps an extra low or mid tier rune straight on the boss's corpse if every party member is doing the same writ for that place for example.
Epic dungeons should be impossible to solo for even the most optimal of builds, and I would not mind for some places to be genuinely difficult and time consuming to beat. With naturally, adequate rewards that make up for the time spent. Perhaps two runic chests and a guaranteed mid-tier, probable high tier item directly from the boss's corpse.
While balance is important for the PvP aspect of the game, Bosses don't /have/ to be fair, nor do they have to be balanced, I'm all for more Paush scale bosses which encourage "Raids" rather than 30 secs mass bursty fights that end in a blink of an eye once every mage drops their dragons.
This would also serve in a way to build a certain seriousness about the environment we are in, as characters. You will see people joke about cutting Abazuur's head for the 750th time in a day, but never will you see someone foolishly go to solo Paush. There is a certain notoriety from such bosses, and in a world where everyone is capable of reaching level 30, it would make total sense for the world to have challenges very difficult to tackle for them.