Cordor Crypts Traps

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RedGiant
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Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by RedGiant » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:07 am

Took 100 points of fire damage on a trap in the Cordor Crypts. I know this has been talked about before (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12710&p=105335&hilit=trap#p105335), but maybe tone it down a wee bit; this script or whatever it is that's placing these things? A tad over-tuned for a <10 lvl dungeon. I actually had to go back an check combat logs for how I ended up immediately in the Fugue.

Thanks for your consideration!

*Edit Looked closer at the combat log; DC 26 (i.e. Deadly Fire Trap).
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Ecthelion
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Ecthelion » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:58 am

Super weird, never recalled such an harsh trap, though I did the dungeon tons of times when I started !
One's electric at the third flour, and Negative at the fourth, but fire I really don't recall, even less 100 damages.
Might be a bug.

Archnon
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Archnon » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:30 am

Maybe a player posted it. :twisted:

Ecthelion
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Ecthelion » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:41 am

And maybe he was ambushed in stealth to giggle at the poor adventurer stumbling into his trap too !

Skald Haldi
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Skald Haldi » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:27 am

Agree with concerns about traps in the Cordor Crypts. There are some really rude ones there that are not designed for players of that level range. If you haven't experienced them once already, these come as a surprise, possibly ending in death for the whole party. In other words, this is a quest designed to reward players who've done it before and know all the tricks.

I didn't run into the 100-pt fire trap, but the 40DC "only a trap-rogue can disarm these" negative traps are also really unfair. The DC is 40, so only a rogue is allowed to disarm it anyway. I hate that rule, but that's D&D. Anyhow let's do the math: 10th level rogue with take 20 + 13 skill + 2 synergy + need 5 more points. Intelligence has to be at least 20 or I must have +disarm equipment.

In other words, these traps aren't designed for the level range expected. For reference, I don't consider myself a new player, but my whole party died at least three times trying to complete - and we were at max level for the quest. We kept trying it again and again b/c we're stubborn and we wanted to see the content. However, there were MUCH easier quests out there. I pity the party of minimum level characters that attempt that quest.

My suggestion for the easiest fix is to change the quest giver and raise the level requirement.

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Nitro
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Nitro » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:00 pm

For a fire trap to deal 100 damage it has to be either deadly or epic. Presuming deadly that's 25d6 which is very harsh for a level 10-ish dungeon.

JubJub
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by JubJub » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:07 pm

Potion of warding, neg energy pro wands, have someone cast it on you, I mean there are ways. I hate the traps too but at least they don't lvl drain anymore.

Ecthelion
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Ecthelion » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:21 pm

The dungeon is designed so that you'll loot and use Negative Energy potions, so I would say those are fair enough ! Perhaps increase the loot-rate in the dungeon if need be. Agreed with removing level drains, at such low levels it's annoying.

Archnon
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Archnon » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:30 pm

If your not carrying a restoration scroll anyway it is your fault. I can net around 10k alone from the crypts and could solo it at level 7 with a pure monk build so it seems pretty reasonable. More than enough to replace the used scroll. If your saves are bad there are a few traps that might get you but you have to be unlucky

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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Skald Haldi » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:43 pm

Jubjub, you are absolutely right - but that information goes with the "must have seen the whole thing before and know all the tricks". Knowing what to expect is not fair advice. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who expects this to be another quest similar to the others of the same level. Monk builds not withstanding... stupid cheaters... :D

Since I now know this dungeon very well after three failures... I know exactly what equipment to bring. In addition, all those solutions mentioned don't grow on trees - especially for low-level characters.

Don't get me wrong. I loved that quest! There were some really neat and sneaky things thrown at you. It was exciting trying to figure out how to beat it. However, when you reach the end and realize you don't have the right equipment finish - that especially sucks.

Attempt one: Low level, zombie warriors summoned on top of our casters. Total party kill.

Attempt two: Came back a few levels later, swinging blades knock us into the pit and we get separated and mobbed. Total party kill.

Attempt three: Came back a few levels later. Made it to the last room. Ran out of potions and heal kits trying to go over the traps. Unable to rest. Unable to turn back. Push on... total party kill.

Attempt four: Came back a few levels later. Made it to the last room. Brought +disarm equipment, but forgot about the 35 DC only disarmed by rogues rule. We could roll 48s, but nope. Used warding potions, but ran out. Too hurt to win. Funny moment as we run into the boss room, past the boss and the minions, and jump through the portal escaping. Yay!

Attempt five: Came back immediately, with a BUNCH of healing kits, warding potions, and restoration potions. By this point, we know exactly what to do at every point in the dungeon. Not even a challenge.

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Ecthelion
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Ecthelion » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:16 pm

When bad things happen to good adventurers ?

No, more seriously ... Perhaps increase the loot rate of the potions, or remove some of the traps, but not all of them. Or increase the healing kits drop, works too.

I liked those traps when I did it ! It was challenging !

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The Kriv
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by The Kriv » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:10 pm

Skald Haldi wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:43 pm
Attempt one: Low level, zombie warriors summoned on top of our casters. Total party kill.

Attempt two: Came back a few levels later, swinging blades knock us into the pit and we get separated and mobbed. Total party kill.

Attempt three: Came back a few levels later. Made it to the last room. Ran out of potions and heal kits trying to go over the traps. Unable to rest. Unable to turn back. Push on... total party kill.

Attempt four: Came back a few levels later. Made it to the last room. Brought +disarm equipment, but forgot about the 35 DC only disarmed by rogues rule. We could roll 48s, but nope. Used warding potions, but ran out. Too hurt to win. Funny moment as we run into the boss room, past the boss and the minions, and jump through the portal escaping. Yay!

Attempt five: Came back immediately, with a BUNCH of healing kits, warding potions, and restoration potions. By this point, we know exactly what to do at every point in the dungeon. Not even a challenge.
This actually sounds like a proper learning curve for any dungeon run by people who have never experienced it before.

I am curious as to what is expected?

Attempt one: Since My character is at the exact level of this dungeon, I ace it on the first try solo.

I agree, it sucks when you get to the very end and find out you can't finish it. But honestly... it's part of the learning curv. And yeah we all enjoy getting the reward of the phat lewt, or the boss-drop magic item, or the big gold gain, or whatever. But... *shrug* Sometimes, them's how the cookie crumbles.

I know I know... not what you want to hear. Imagine, though, if every dungeon was designed to be a 100% success rate all the time by any character of appropriate class/level? That doesn't sound like a game.. that sounds like a treadmill.

I applaud you for your tenacity and dedication to defeat that dungeon. And in the end, the true treasure was the feeling of accomplishment, wasn't it. C'mon... wasn't it so much sweeter when you finished it, instead of had you done it once on your first try?
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Drowble Oh Seven
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Drowble Oh Seven » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:13 pm

The negative energy traps are manageable through the use of potions; but the 100+ damage traps are not. Instant, unanticipated death is not fun. Ideally, a death should be the result of a conscious decision to push on despite waning resources, or in the face of stiff opposition.

'Gotcha'-style PC murder isn't enjoyable for anyone involved, particularly when they've completed the dungeon and are just trying to collect (duly earned) rewards.

I absolutely appreciate the sentiment that it should be a game, not a treadmill; but the way levelling exists in Arelith there's definitely going to be a fair bit of treadmill in there, and it's a little mean to nuke a beginner party with a 100+ damage lightning trap just for completing the dungeon.

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ReverentBlade
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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by ReverentBlade » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:15 am

I give a dungeon two attempts before saying eff it.

I appreciate the sentiment of "old-school hard D&D" but I get that by DMing table-top with modern rules. I don't actually play NWN because the game or mechanics still hold any intrigue or challenge; its all about the RP.

Dying and trying again on this outdated game is more tedious than easy grinding if I'm going to be frank.

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Re: Cordor Crypts Traps

Post by Aelryn Bloodmoon » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:07 pm

Adventuring Pro-tip;

When exploring new dungeons, always have a scroll or wand or book of summon monster one. Player 1 Tool the badger to run around the room and trigger potential lethal traps you can't see.

This method is guilt-free; summoned creatures that are destroyed are returned to whence they came from completely unharmed after 24 hours.

It also allows you to bypass the traps you can't disarm/survive at all level ranges.

Leave the badger behind you until you clear the next room of mobs, then repeat the process. Resummon as needed.
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