Arelith

I wanted to give my two cents on the Skal issue. I have heard some people saying they should allow ships through the ice to bring Skal and Arelith players together more. But i actually like the fact that Skal is so isolated and difficult to get to. It creates an interesting world apart from the politics and hoi polloi of arelith. And allows for some interesting relationships to develop between characters that might otherwise be hunted down and murdered in arelith due to their nature. It acts like a nursery for unusual relationships and out of the box characters (characters that may be shunned on arelith) which can create some really interesting dynamics.

I feel that alot of people in the current group on Skal (myself included) are enjoying life on Skal so much, they have invested alot of time into developing the economy, and trying to build up Skals reputation in the eyes of the (im going to say it, often snobbish) mainlanders. There is often a chasm between players from Skal and Arelith because of the freeze, people show up out of the blue on arelith from Skal, often completely lost and bewildered, and with little purpose other than "exploration". I would like to see more relationships fused between Skal and the mainland, so people have a better reason to leave Skal and chase their goals on Arelith when they are finished. But in order for relationships to develop gradually, there needs to be a solution to the freeze option, something that takes a bit of pressure off of the over worked summoners. So here is mine:

*persuasion check*

Give Skal an Icebreaking metal boat. There is already talk of adding more boats. So give Skal the technology it needs. But dont make it accessable to everyone. Make it a private boat, like the timberfleet in Guldorand. This will maintain the 'illusion' of Skal being a far off and isolated place. While giving players of a mercentile, political, or military mind a little more purpose, and the freedom to travel to and interact with the people of Arelith. We would be your gate-keepers, remaining on Skal to nurture the new comers in the etiquette of mainlanders before shipping them over to you, sharp and eager! The boat will be the only boat anywhere able to safely navigate the ice surrounding Skal. It makes sense that the enterprising people of Skal would try to copy the ice-breaking technology of the Iron-throne (obtaining their vessel or copying their technology has been a chief goal of my own character ever since the iron throne arrived).

Set a goal if you would. Make it a challenge. Ask us to provide the resources. Bringing 5000 thousand iron ingots, 5000 wood and five million gold to see the job done. We people of Skal, and especially those at the bebolt trading coster are a resourceful bunch. And we would see our fingers worn and bloody and our bank accounts empty and peniless to obtain such a vessel. Allow Skal to progress into an industrial age of prosperity, and take its place at the seat of arelith politics as a respected trade outpost!

I think the benefits outweigh any potential negatives. People can already reach Skal no matter the season thanks to endless summoning chains, adding a unique ship that can travel through the ice would add a good mundane alternative. The potential for intrigue and deals to gain access could only be a net benefit.

I would even go so far as to suggest warding against summoning on Skal, enforcing a risky journey by sea to maintain the isolation.

Giving skal a special boat so that they can sail through the freeze when no one else can, sounds bad to me because it would purely make the ability to travel to/from there one way to the ship or summoners allowing for a sort of meta protection from possible retribution from actions they take with the boat.

From a lore angle to it doesn't make sense to me, at least not if it would only be skals ship having the ability to break ice. Since something liek the dreadnaught made of gnomish engineering and having massive coal engines would probably have been built to be capable of such too.

On a related note I would like to see it maybe as a laurick style travel option to/from skal year round just maybe make it fairly expensive (multiple thousands)

Ascheriit wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Giving skal a special boat so that they can sail through the freeze when no one else can, sounds bad to me because it would purely make the ability to travel to/from there one way to the ship or summoners allowing for a sort of meta protection from possible retribution from actions they take with the boat.

From a lore angle to it doesn't make sense to me, at least not if it would only be skals ship having the ability to break ice. Since something liek the dreadnaught made of gnomish engineering and having massive coal engines would probably have been built to be capable of such too.

Two things.

1: Skal is generally harmless. The average level of a skallard is like 5. Its the lowbie island. Thats part of why its so isolated.

2: Ice breaker tech has been around for a very long time.

In the 11th century, in North-Russia started settling the coasts of the White Sea, named so for being ice-covered for over half of a year. The mixed ethnic group of the Karelians and the Russians in the North-Russia that lived on the shores of the Arctic Ocean became known as Pomors ("seaside settlers"). Gradually they developed a special type of small one- or two-mast wooden sailing ships, used for voyages in the ice conditions of the Arctic seas and later on Siberian rivers. These earliest icebreakers were called kochi. The koch's hull was protected by a belt of ice-floe resistant flush skin-planking along the variable water-line, and had a false keel for on-ice portage. If a koch became squeezed by the ice-fields, its rounded bodylines below the water-line would allow for the ship to be pushed up out of the water and onto the ice with no damage.

When you consider that Skaljard is a colony of the Ruathym, who are totally-not-norse-but-totally-are FR's vikings. It makes perfect sense for them to have one.

When Haks come online, I would nominate this for the first in game dirigible! That would be an awesome way to avoid the whole ice tech problem.

Archnon wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 4:57 pm

When Haks come online, I would nominate this for the first in game dirigible! That would be an awesome way to avoid the whole ice tech problem.

I had this same thought immediatly after posting but thought i would let someone else sound like the crazy one

Ascheriit wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 3:31 pm

From a lore angle to it doesn't make sense to me, at least not if it would only be skals ship having the ability to break ice. Since something liek the dreadnaught made of gnomish engineering and having massive coal engines would probably have been built to be capable of such too.

I saw the the dreadnought for the first time last night. And while i think it is TOTALLY badass, i also think it is completely insane and completely unrealistic (i dont care because its so cool, but:). ITS SO MASSIVE it becomes easy to explain why something like the dreadnought wouldnt make it through the ice. The dreadnought would simply hit bottom and beach itself a couple of miles offshore, then the ice would set in around it and it would be stuck there untill the melt (assuming a boat exists powerful enough to ever get it unstuck again). Modern tankers have to have special deep harbours built for them, and the dreadnought is on another level. I doubt if the waters around Skal are deep enough to accomodate the dreadnought.

Well to my knowledge the dreadnaught can currently sail there and my point was less around the design duravyas mentioned from the old boats (which would make good sense for a place like skal) but more about the dreadnaught being similar to a more modern ice breaker in the fact that it has a non-wind dependent power source that could in theory actually be utilized to break the ice to form it's path.

Ascheriit wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 5:44 pm

Well to my knowledge the dreadnaught can currently sail there and my point was less around the design duravyas mentioned from the old boats (which would make good sense for a place like skal) but more about the dreadnaught being similar to a more modern ice breaker in the fact that it has a non-wind dependent power source that could in theory actually be utilized to break the ice to form it's path.

Aye what you say makes sense but i wanted to show its easy to explain away little issues like that which get in the way of good game mechanics. Personally i think its more important to have a fun game. Or perhaps i am just making up excuses to never have that monstrosity darken Skals door!

In a world of vast magic and creativity it doesn't make much sense for Skal to be so inaccessible to me. This additionally hinders interaction, especially with a lack of speedy and portals. While I don't plan on making travel there easy, I certainly think that several issues could be addressed by opening up Skal to the mainland somewhat.

The separation between Skal and the mainland as a 'distant shore' is certainly thematic. However, increasing player agency and travel to Skal through an 'ice breaker' like boat would be both thematic and a healthy move towards making Skal less of the isolated zoo that it is. This is something I'm certainly considering.

Over the last few weeks I've been thinking about two issues that Skal suffers, particularly:

• Lack of communication
• Lack of travel

While there are arguments for both on the merits of 'loose realism', these two are unhealthy barriers in a roleplay environment. Namely, Skal characters can't communicate with the mainland easily (without metagaming), and a low-level population such as Skal is left vulnerable in terms of conflict; who could ever know something is going on, or participate in any stories going on there?

This lack of travel additionally plays into lack of incentives, another issue I wish to address with Skal. There isn't much reason for mainland characters to visit, and making the effort is currently a fair amount of trouble from a design perspective. Creating interesting opportunities, whether through dungeons, features, and areas is a goal for the future of Skal's development.

I should reiterate that I'm certainly not planning on making travel there incredibly easy. However, making it less of a binary experience is on the table.

TLDR; Skal is too separated. It's bad for a roleplay world. We should creative incentives and opportunities for interaction to take place there. While it's a distant shore, it's still part of Arelith and shouldn't be almost impossible to interact with.

Back on the topic, if the boat were to be implemented it would be good to have it rentable rather than allowing some group to take it over for a long time (as tends to happen with other boats) and potentially restrict access to it or control its use.

Rags wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 6:08 pm

TLDR; Skal is too separated. It's bad for a roleplay world. We should creative incentives and opportunities for interaction to take place there. While it's a distant shore, it's still part of Arelith and shouldn't be almost impossible to interact with.

This was a great assessment. I am confident you will find a reasonable solution.

The easier thing to do might be to start rping within a mages community to explore the potential of creating portals on Skal and connecting them to Arelith. Then it runs year round and can't be coopted by a group. Devs might be more interested if there was a strong to effort.

@Rags

Skal definitely needs something to incentivise 'tourism' from the mainlanders to travel to the isle perhaps making the isle as a staging point that branches off into multiple new locations or dungeons? Perhaps Skal becomes the only source of Palladium and that becomes a new 'luxury' resource for townships to order/stockpile? That Palladium could be generated from locals doing writs.

Though you don't want to make Skal 'too comfy' otherwise the houses in the lodge will never rotate and the shops may never (eventually) free up. With that being said there is definitely a market for goods easily found in the mainland with plenty of gold to be made from folks who don't have a whole lot of options to spend it on. Which is perfect for those 'Merchant types' since most resources are easily accessible on the isle.

Overall I'd like to see 'Skaljard' as an isle that lets you have a 'taste' of what Arelith has to offer yet is inconvenient enough people will shuffle on so someone else can have a turn.

Coming back to boats I think a few boats with Icebreaker-tech are a good idea but I'd like them to still be 'inconvenient'. Perhaps rent-able boats? Maybe the boats aren't suited for deep waters and can only sail around the tiny isle? Back that up with a handful of sailing writs that are 'Skal-only' that require sailing so people can try it out that system then give them a pointer to Sencliff or something.

What's a Skal?

We can ignore my dreadnaught statements since I was informed it got destroyed apparently.

I think if the devs just dump a publically rentable boat on the shores of skal for anyone to use, Skal will lose alot of its 'distant shore thematic' as rag says, as anyone with a few gold coins will now be free to travel (when the boat is available). Even beginners or new players who arnt ready or equipped to deal with the crossing.

I would prefer to see a Skal boat player run. It increases player interaction and gives people a reason to negotiate with eachother. Aslong as there were enough players with keys to the boat to offer a fairly reliable service to the community.
If you are worried about players lording over the vessel and controlling it forever i can think of two solutions. First: Force players to renew the contract on the boat every four to five in game years. Either through a vote, re-nogotiating with the iron-throne/mayor or through some sort of trial or competition (like the boat race). Dm's can change up the method of selecting who will run the boat depending on what suits them. Giving Skal regular events and something to fight for, it would even draw in factions on Arelith (certainly the pirates. edit: but actually, any faction who wants to recruit new players (which should be everyone), since the ship would offer an advantage in that aspect) to participate in the contests and take control over 'the crossing'. A valuable trade route.
Secondly, you can make running the Skal boat a burden for whoever has control, make it expensive to rent and, if its a metal tanker with a coal fueled boiler: A certain amount of coal to activate: say 100 coal to keep it running for 24 hours in game. I can see this creating jobs as controlling factions hire miners to find and stockpile coal. It might also create some drama when a disorganised faction takes control, and cant acquire enough coal to keep the ship running, and the community loses their winter trade route. It would force players to 'give up' the contract if they cant run the boat. And force players to take the responsibility seriously.

Archnon wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 9:04 pm

The easier thing to do might be to start rping within a mages community to explore the potential of creating portals on Skal and connecting them to Arelith.

I do like this idea to, but again. If we just stick a portal somewhere suddenly Skal is no longer a distant shore which is difficult to come and go from. Perhaps we could have an event where we 're-activate' the machines that reside within the mountains. (those ancient pillars or whatever? they are obviously vents for some massive machine we havnt seen yet) After the event, a portal could rise up out of the mountain, however: The portal requires fuel to function, special fuel that can only be found in a difficult to reach location, like one of the deep caves near the masters, or a new area around there.

Rags is looking for 'non-binary' solutions, so it could be cool to offer a number of different but difficult and interesting ways of getting back (the portal could require a certain level of lore to activate and use for example, while the boat would require IC interaction.)

Skal's isolation is far more than thematic - this server was designed with a very specific purpose.

Chiefly this was to provide a low-mid level environment free of dominating cliques, epic level characters and serverwide politics; a place where low level character could immediately feel involved - take a leading part in DM quests, find quarters, shops and factions in a largely action-based environment until they were ready to join the 'HEAVY-Arelith' of the mainland.

This isn't just something for new players, but also for those who prefer a low level environment.

It's been a huge success.

I'm not going to force characters to leave, but I am absolutely not going to add any content which encourages them to stay.

I get that players might think that acting as player 'custodians' for Skal might be a cool idea, or welcomed by some players...but I would implore those players to really consider if that's truly what players of Skaljard really want?

Anyone playing Arelith should be familiar with settlements where all quarters are owned for YEARS on end by the same few epic characters, places where one finds themselves sidelined during any big event as the same old noteworthies step in to dominate the story. Where you can barely take fifteen paces off the boat before you get invited into the private discord and showered with gifts by whichever epic level patron takes a shine to you.

Skal really doesn't need any of that. If that's your game then Arelith offers a ton of choice elsewhere. Please just leave Skaljard to those who it was built for. Simply - let them alone to enjoy the game.

I'm not going to add a PC boat to Skaljard, as that would entail adding all the high-epic level dungeon content that goes with it. I won't add settlement politics, guildhouses or easier ways for mainland PCs to travel there (if anything it should be restricted yet further)

I think easing up restrictions of travel the other way is a good thing to do though, waiting for the summer months in order to leave is sometimes an ordeal.

Arelith is a giant playground, and one where we can accommodate different environments and different playstyles. Skal has a purpose, and it does it very well. We do not need yet another political settlement on Arelith, if I thought that's all it was going to be I would sooner remove it and concentrate on improving those which already exist.

*Persuasion Check* Lycan rolls a 1. Critical Failure!

Lycan wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2019 9:00 am

*Persuasion Check* Lycan rolls a 1. Critical Failure!

The idea of an ice-breaker ship in Skal is a cool one, don't get me wrong. It would just require a whole new ship system, where destinations and encounters were all low level, and it wouldn't get ganked by the other player ships.

If I had time I'd happily make it, but the ship system has taken years - making another is not something I can get into right now! Feedback is always appreciated, and I'm truly glad that players like yourself have fallen in love with the Skal setting.

Irongron wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2019 8:40 am

Skal's isolation is far more than thematic - this server was designed with a very specific purpose.

Chiefly this was to provide a low-mid level environment free of dominating cliques, epic level characters and serverwide politics; a place where low level character could immediately feel involved - take a leading part in DM quests, find quarters, shops and factions in a largely action-based environment until they were ready to join the 'HEAVY-Arelith' of the mainland.

This isn't just something for new players, but also for those who prefer a low level environment.

It's been a huge success.

I'm not going to force characters to leave, but I am absolutely not going to add any content which encourages them to stay.

I get that players might think that acting as player 'custodians' for Skal might be a cool idea, or welcomed by some players...but I would implore those players to really consider if that's truly what players of Skaljard really want?

Anyone playing Arelith should be familiar with settlements where all quarters are owned for YEARS on end by the same few epic characters, places where one finds themselves sidelined during any big event as the same old noteworthies step in to dominate the story. Where you can barely take fifteen paces off the boat before you get invited into the private discord and showered with gifts by whichever epic level patron takes a shine to you.

Skal really doesn't need any of that. If that's your game then Arelith offers a ton of choice elsewhere. Please just leave Skaljard to those who it was built for. Simply - let them alone to enjoy the game.

I'm not going to add a PC boat to Skaljard, as that would entail adding all the high-epic level dungeon content that goes with it. I won't add settlement politics, guildhouses or easier ways for mainland PCs to travel there (if anything it should be restricted yet further)

I think easing up restrictions of travel the other way is a good thing to do though, waiting for the summer months in order to leave is sometimes an ordeal.

Arelith is a giant playground, and one where we can accommodate different environments and different playstyles. Skal has a purpose, and it does it very well. We do not need yet another political settlement on Arelith, if I thought that's all it was going to be I would sooner remove it and concentrate on improving those which already exist.

is there level restriction on owning a shop and quarter at skal? if so wouldn't it be a good idea to have so. so that if your over a specific lvl, your quarter will be released automatic. so that low lvls can take it over and have a home while they do writs and to avoid lazy epics from owning everything there.

I agree with Irongron's overall points as a player on Skaljard for roughly a year. I've had a lot of fun in the low level environment -- regardless of those that aggressively suggest Skaljard sucks. I'm sure it could always be improved in some ways, like the writs just now getting up to par with gold payment. Something that would tremendously benefit Skal is more DM events like the ones we've just had that can incorporate many players. Maybe not always a siege though haha. PCs making factions and participating on the isle themselves in those factions would be something good to see, I think, in developing plots amongst themselves.

Something I think would be really cool and is something that may never happen, is a tiny Under-Skal that has a one-way connect to the main UD somehow, that would allow low-level monsters to have interactions with Skal in a more stream-lined way. This could be very bad, though, if it cheapens the tension the server tries to foster between Monsters/Heroes. So it may never happen -- this could, alternatively, function as another method to escape Skal for Surfacer PCs who want to brave exploring the UD.

Personally am a fan of a small ship system for Skal. As simple as NPC transitions with gold payments to some off-shore islands -- regular PC ships could also pick them up from those islands. Not sure how difficult this is, as Irongron said the current system took years.

Maybe not a transition from the UD to Skal, but some Underskal cavern system of its own? Maybe not allow the full range of monster, but some of them more resistant to cold, and more appropriate for a low-level area. No drow running around, but a little goblin clan or something could be a fun antagonist for a low level area.

Subutai wrote: ↑

Tue May 21, 2019 6:17 pm

Maybe not a transition from the UD to Skal, but some Underskal cavern system of its own? Maybe not allow the full range of monster, but some of them more resistant to cold, and more appropriate for a low-level area. No drow running around, but a little goblin clan or something could be a fun antagonist for a low level area.

I would agree -- gnolls, goblins are already there on Skal as mobs. Half-orc outcasts/Orogs could work too, as there is the orc camp. The transition I was talking about would only be from Underskal to UD -- one way, not the other way around.

Ascheriit wrote: ↑

Mon May 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Giving skal a special boat so that they can sail through the freeze when no one else can, sounds bad to me because it would purely make the ability to travel to/from there one way to the ship or summoners allowing for a sort of meta protection from possible retribution from actions they take with the boat.

The boat should only be unreachable when docks in skal during winter. It should still be interceptable when traveling to or from the skal (like pirates) during winter.

And if the ship has a connection to the iron throne, then DMs can interfere if it is being abused for nefaroius things too much.